By RAW, armor spikes can have the throwing enchantment, but how does it work?
The rules don't cover every situation, and it breaks down at times. This is one time a GM just says no because by RAW it fails. The spikes are a part of the suit.
I was thinking of getting a suit of armor with armor spikes with the Throwing and Transformative enchantments. I am just not sure how it would function.
blackbloodtroll wrote: By RAW, armor spikes can have the throwing enchantment, but how does it work? Put +1 throwing spikes on a suit of armor. As if attacking with a thrown weapon, the spikes can be launched from the armor with a range increment of 10 feet. The armor is then spike-less until the spikes are retrieved as per the normal rules for picking up and resheathing a weapon.
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+1 throwing armor spike suit of armor, filled with halfling, chuck the thing at somebody you really hate...
If the armor spikes have throwing, and returning properties, are the spikes removed and end up at your feet, or returned to the armor? Must you throw the entire suit of armor?
blackbloodtroll wrote: Must you throw the entire suit of armor? Yep.
Imagine if you had a double weapon with one end having the throwing enhancement. You would need to throw the entire weapon.
Likewise you would need to remove a spiked gauntlet to throw it, etc.
-James
Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
blackbloodtroll wrote: By RAW, armor spikes can have the throwing enchantment, but how does it work? You break off your armor spikes and now you have throwable spikes. Sadly though, because you broke them off. they're just now loose spikes. You've despiked your armor so that you can throw the spikes. Which qualify as improvised weapons so they also now have a -4 penalty on hit rolls.
Would the transformative enchantment allow them to become a dagger, then return as armor spikes?
Actually the Throwing Enchantment is so that when you are launched from a catapult you are hurled 10 extra Feet... Take that Goblin Engineering!
I am actually not trying to be silly, but trying to understand how certain enchantments function when applied to armor spikes.
Pathfinder Maps Subscriber
Those certain enchancements don't function when applied to armor spikes.
According to the core rulebook page 471, the Returning special ability can only be placed on a weapon that can be thrown. Armor spikes cannot be thrown without throwing the armor they are attached to.
actually armor spikes can be removed and placed back on the armor, Also another reason you can add enchants to them is because they are part of the armor when it comes to the magic of the armor itself. So if you wanted an armor Spike that had throwing and returning You would say:
Option 1
Standard Action or Move action to Pull Spike
Attack Action to throw
Option 2
Have the Spike Launch out and and return to their position on armor the following round
those are just off the top of my head.
Actually Slim
Armor spikes deal extra piercing damage (see “spiked armor” on Table: Weapons) on a successful grapple attack. The spikes count as a martial weapon. If you are not proficient with them, you take a –4 penalty on grapple checks when you try to use them. You can also make a regular melee attack (or off-hand attack) with the spikes, and they count as a light weapon in this case. (You can't also make an attack with armor spikes if you have already made an attack with another off-hand weapon, and vice versa.) An enhancement bonus to a suit of armor does not improve the spikes' effectiveness, but the spikes can be made into magic weapons in their own right.
thats the decription you are treated as two weapon fighting.
blackbloodtroll wrote: I am actually not trying to be silly, but trying to understand how certain enchantments function when applied to armor spikes. Not all enchantments are equally good when applied to all weapons. It's a fun thought experiment in a eye-rolling sort of way. But, that's about the scope of it.
I am still curious about the transformative property, as it could be a turned into a very throwable weapon.
yes it could and when you Transform it back it could re attach itself to the armor.
Pathfinder Maps Subscriber
Reecy, I'm not disputing any of that. None of that says says you can throw them without removing them from the armor they are attached to. Nothing about the returning enchantment gets around the need to actually use your hand or arm to throw the weapon. Nothing about the returning enchantment changes the effort required to get the weapon into your hand preparing to throw. The rules are silent on the action required to remove or affix an armor spike to armor.
Armor spikes can't normally be disarmed. The closest thing in core is the way a locked gauntlet works as a way to have a weapon that can't be disarmed. So it should be similar to a locked gauntlet to remove or affix an armor spike.
As a house-rule, I could see GM fiat special armor spikes that are similar to the quick-draw shield that allow a spike to be removed or affixed as a move action (allowing one to be throw as a standard action afterwards), but this is not RAW.
Oh yeah No i totally agree with you Slim if you look at the examples I posted.
But I think thats where he is trying to use the Transforming Enchant, so the Lock Gaunlet or Spike would change into something else and then throw it.
As for any other enchants where you are not throwing it would be how ever you shoulder Slammed the person.
blackbloodtroll wrote: I am still curious about the transformative property, as it could be a turned into a very throwable weapon. How would you rule shield spikes, or one half of a double weapon?
Work with these and armor spikes can follow in their wake. What problems you'll find with armor spikes you'll mostly find with those.
It'll help you break down the problem at the very least. Perhaps see it's boundaries.
-James
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there are no boundries! If you have enough gold you can make anything happen!
Pathfinder Maps Subscriber
The problem I see with combining Transformative with armor spikes is this: According to the Transformative property in the APG, the weapon alters its shape on COMMAND. According to page 468 of the base book, if the weapon has a special ability that the user needs to activate (that is, one that isn't use activated by simply attacking with it) the user usually needs to utter a COMMAND WORD (a standard action).
I can see a GM allowing a character with a free hand to grasp one of his armor spikes (assuming it's in reach, no grabbing that dorsal spine in the middle of your back) and spend a standard action to utter the command word to transform to end up with the transformed weapon in his hand. Too bad he won't be able to attack with it until next round.
Yeah totally Agree Slim, its a to step process unless we give it the enchantment.... Rocket Propelled
blackbloodtroll wrote: I was thinking of getting a suit of armor with armor spikes with the Throwing and Transformative enchantments. I am just not sure how it would function. This is right up there with a transformative, throwing amulet of mighty fists.. Somethings are just too silly. :P
There's another problem with Transformative, the text says that the weapon reverts to its true shape when unattended, so it returns to spike form the moment it leaves your hand.
You know I still think it should be Armor spikes of Magic Missiles and just end it... On command it fires Magic Spike missles at target using your base attack and no str bonus.
Takes 1 move action to reload!
I would rule the spikes can be removed and reattached. The spikes would only do 1d3 damage as ranged weapons, but there's a bunch of them.
Y'know what? I got no clue. It's a weird enchantment to have. GM's choice.
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Reecy wrote: You know I still think it should be Armor spikes of Magic Missiles and just end it... On command it fires Magic Spike missles at target using your base attack and no str bonus.
Takes 1 move action to reload!
Brilliant Energy, throwing armor spikes?
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I wonder how this would be handled in PFS.
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