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So, how would one reflavor the Alchemist for an artificer type character?
Modifies Skills, Skill Points; Replaces Alchemy, Brew Potion, Mutagen, Poison Resistance, Poison Use, Swift Alchemy, Swift Poisoning, Persistent Mutagen, Instant Alchemy
Class skills: Tinkers treat Escape Artist and all Knowledge skills as class skills. Perception is not a class skill for Tinkers.
Skill ranks per level: 6+Int modifier.
Assemble Contraptions (Ex): This ability allows Tinkers to create short-lived mechanical devices that harness the power of raw chaos to produce a astounding effects. This works exactly as Alchemists ability to create extracts, including the need for formula book, except the contraptions are activated manually by the tinker instead of being drunk. Unlike Alchemists, Tinkers cannot translate existing spells into formula and have to rely on independent research or other Tinkers to gain new formulae.
Additionally, Tinkers may make a Craft checks to attempt to identify workings of contraptions created by other Tinkers.
This feature replaces Alchemy, Brew Potion and Mutagen abilities.
Discoveries: Tinkers can select following discoveries: any bomb-related discovery, (greater) alchemical simulacrum*, alchemical zombie*, doppelganger simulacrum*, explosive missile, infusion, mummification*, preserve organs (using implanted mechanical parts), tentacle*, tumor familiar*, vestigal arm*, wings*. Additionally, the tinker may select following rogue talents as discoveries: black market connections, quick disable and resiliency.
*these are mechanical equivalents of the alchemical discoveries of the same name.
Evasion: A 2nd level tinker had enough experience with various explosions that he gains ability to evade blasts. If the tinker makes a successful Reflex saving throw against an attack that normally deals half damage on a successful save, he instead takes no damage. Evasion can be used only if the tinker is wearing light armor or no armor. A helpless tinker does not gain the benefit of evasion.
After reaching 10th level the tinker gains improved evasion, suffering no damage on successful Reflex saving throw or half damage on a failed one against effects that allows Reflex save for half damage.
This ability replaces poison resistance +2, poison resistance +4, poison resistance +6, poison use and poison immunity.
Build Wondrous Device: At third level Tinker gains ability to build permanent mechanical devices. Treat as Craft Wondrous Item but created items are technological in nature, creation DCs should be higher and Spellcraft cannot be used in place of corresponding Craft check. This ability replaces Brew Potion and Swift Alchemy.
Grand Discovery: 20th level tinkers can select Awakened Intellect or one of the following grand discoveries:
High Demolitionist: Increase damage die of all the tinker's bombs and bomb-related effects by two steps (1d3, 1d4, 1d6, 1d8, 1d10).
Mechanized Body: The tinker had improved his form with mechanical additions gaining half-construct template and +2 bonus to Strength.
Technological Masterpiece: The tinker can create a unique mechanical contraption that is comparable in power to a minor artifact.
the unnamed spell used by Raistlin to save dying Tasslehoff in Dragons Of The Spring Dawning (which looked to me as some sort of reversed death spell or maybe vampiric touch, crushed pearl used as a component suggest the former).I can't think of the name, but it was a unique Dragonlance spell from Towers of High Sorcery. Essenually it was a a limited Wish-like spell in some ways. It allowed the caster to effectively rewind time, undoing certain affects within a few minutes as if they had never happened. It could essentually rewind the target say 1 minute so that they neverrecieved the wound (effectively curing those HP) or in Tas's case, to a point just before recieving the poison dart from that door. A very high priced version of healing.
Towers Of High Sorcery had transmutation timeheal (which is the spell you speak about), necromantic reverse death (that returned to life but left any damage unrepaired thus preventing revival unless other form of magic was used to mend the body prior to revival) and necromantic life transfer (which is just improved vampiric touch that drains hit points from one target and grants them to another). Of those reverse death uses black pearl as a material component. If timeheal was indeed designed to represent the spell used by Raistlin it wasn't following the book exactly (where Raistlin uses white pearl and a leaf as components while the 3rd edition spell uses miniature hourglass filled with powdered black pearls).
Also, the original spell is described as drawing part of the caster's lifeforce and transferring it to the victim - Raistlin warns himself that he has to be careful because slightest error could kill him. That part of description is the closest to life transfer.Of course this is purely academical dispute about which spell exactly the archmaster that Raistlin was at that time used to save the life.
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That's a good idea on the tech Alchy.
Warms me heart. . . :)
As for the Witch, I am using the Age of Mortals, so there are gods.
It depends. At the end of the Age of Dispair (is that right?), Takhisis literally stole the world, cutting it off from the other deities, but then basically fell into a coma. So, for a second extended period of time, the world was devoid of any divine magic, but this time, as the gods literally didn't have access to the world, even the three arcane magic deities could no longer give arcane magic. The world needed to find new sorces of power, and after a few years, when the old magics had nearly been completely depleted in the world, an ex-cleric discovered the Powers of the Heart, which was a new form of divine magic that draws from the individuals emotions and enlightenment. Not so long after that, an ex-wizard discovered sorcery, arcane power that literally drew magic from the primal aspects of the world around them. This continued for some years, and both are fueled by aspects of Chaos, (Chaos is an overgod that was trapped in The Greygem, a sentient cursed item that travelled the world and literally spread aspects of chaos, creating all kinds of new creatures, etc. . .)
Anyway, this new form of magic, after a time, began to wane as well, and no one could figure it out. It turns out that Takhisis had finally returned to full power, and wanted to take over the world. When she had stolen the world, she had also cut of the chain of souls and the various afterlife, causing all souls to become something aken to ghosts. She had control over tehm, and was causing these souls to literally interpose themselves inbetween spells being cast, and absorb the magic, which caused epople to believe that magic was failing. This was the War of Souls (or a part of it), and in the end, all the gods finally found a way to return, and Paladine (Bahamut sort of) sacrificed his immortality in order to kill Takhisis (Tiamat) for good.
That leaves the world at it's final incarnation (to present time), where the gods have finally returned, but the primary god of Good and of Evil are no more. The Balance is in question, (I'll explain later if you want), and also, for the first time since the creation fo the world, both Godly (Cleric/Druid/Wizard) and Primal (Sorcerer/Mystic) magic exist together. I am leaving out a lot of things, just because I don't want to overburden you with info, but I would love to help explain anything you need. Just let me know and I am at your service.
Also a few fun little facts. Orcs, and thus Half-Orcs, do not exist in Dragonlance. Nor do Lycanthropes. Drow/Dark Elves are a little different in DL. Drow don't exist, but Dark Elves do. They are not black skinned, not <always> evil, and are really just a socially outcast version of a normal elf. The are basically excommunicated for some major crime, though this doesn't make them evil. DL has Minotaurs, as a playable starting race, but they are less pworful than the normal Minotaur. (I would suggest just using Half-Orcs). They also do not have Halflings, but rather Kinder, which are a child like, sticky fingered, innocent race of pranksters.
This present era, where Godly and Primal magic exist together, is where I am playing.
I have a question about Kender. Are they as disruptive as I hear?
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I edited a little of the last post, but it really depends on your players. Kinder have a bad reputation, but this is mostly because players take them as an ecuse to play poorly.
Kinder can be a very mature and important race, and a great tool for the DM to advance the plot. I'm getting kicked off, so I will try to answer this a little better when I can. Sorry.
This present era, where Godly and Primal magic exist together, is where I am playing.
I have a question about Kender. Are they as disruptive as I hear?
Kender are great!
I have never played with one. I have heard some horror stories but no worse than extremes of normal characters. They have a very childlike implusiveness and few boundries particularly about property. They however are just as likely to give back or away what they take. To really have them in the group as written radomly roll to have them unconsciously borrow from the rest of the party.
I've played kender. It can be done. There are also currently Afflicted Kender as well.
Alchemist could be contexted as a class that taps into primal magic just as a bard as we know them is considered as such.
Five years After the War of Souls the Dark Disciple Trilogy happened. Some of the DL Books take the start of this series into account. Will you?
The Dragonlance Nexus has a few articles that use Pathfinder rules. Here is a version of their Dragonlance Style Wizards.
Kender can be a great race to play! However, not everyone should play a kender.
Beckett, Race of Ansalon as well as the DLCS have minotaurs as one of their standard races.
I have been running a DragonLance campaign for some months now, and made some conversions to classes and races (I was planning on reuniting the conversions and send to the DLNexus at some point, but first I'm waiting for more playtest).
Some ideas I used for the classes:
- Bard: Removed all conjuration (healing) spells from his list, and changed the soothing performance ability for the berserkergang ability (from the savage skald archetype). Created the Chorister archetype, a divine version of the bard, devoted to either Branchala, Sirrion or Hiddukel.
- Cleric: Created the Commerce, Insight, Meditation, Passion, Pestilence, Planning, Time, Treachery, and Tyranny domains.
- Knight: Based on the Samurai, because the Cavalier is too focused on the mount, and knights in the DL novels are mostly on foot or riding dragons. Just replaced Mounted Archer with the ability to deal nonlethal damage with lethal weapons taking only a -2 penalty. Created the following orders: Ergothian Cavalier, Golden Hammers, Knights of Solamnia (all 3 orders), Knights of Neraka (Order of the Lyly), and Legion of Steel.
- Mariner: Converted based on the version from Legends of the Twins.
- Mystic: Converted from the Campaign Setting, in the same style the sorcerer was updated from 3.5 to Pathfinder, with access to one of the following Spheres: Animism, Channelling, Healing, Meditation, Mentalism, Necromancy, Sensitivity, and Spiritualism.
- Ranger: Added a minotaur combat style and a Mystic Ranger archetype.
- Rogue: Created a Handler archetype.
- Sorcerer: Replaced the bloodlines with the Sorcerer Schools: Aeromancy, Cryomancy, Divination, Electromancy, Enchantment, Geomancy, Hydromancy, Pyromancy, Spectramancy, Summoning, and Transmutation.
- Wizard: At 4th level, the wizard is invited to take the test of high sorcery or be branded a renegade. After passing the test, he gains access to his order's secrets. He can learn a secret of his order in place of the bonus feat gained at 5th, 10th, 15th, and 20th level. I also created the War focused arcane school and the Knight of the Thorn archetype.
- Missing Classes: The Noble (from the campaign setting), and the Master (from War of the Lance) looked more like powered NPC classes than anything else, and I can't find a reason to update them.
I still miss a mechanical based tinker base class, as they only made a gnome prestige class.
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I have been running a DragonLance campaign for some months now, and made some conversions to classes and races (I was planning on reuniting the conversions and send to the DLNexus at some point, but first I'm waiting for more playtest).
I would love to see what you have, if it's not too much trouble.
Here is a possible Tinker substitute. LPJ design was working on a Machinesmith. The product will be released in the near future, but this is a beta peek Louis linked to the boards.
Here is a possible Tinker substitute. LPJ design was working on a Machinesmith. The product will be released in the near future, but this is a beta peek Louis linked to the boards.
I'll take a look, thanks.
Drejk's Tinker Alchemist Archetype looks interesting too.I have been running a DragonLance campaign for some months now, and made some conversions to classes and races (I was planning on reuniting the conversions and send to the DLNexus at some point, but first I'm waiting for more playtest).I would love to see what you have, if it's not too much trouble.
Sure, but I'll post a bit at a time to see if I get some feedback if you don't mind.
But first, some ideas to fit the Advanced and Complete core classes into a DragonLance Campaign:- Alchemist: After a gnome who studied at the Academy of Sorcery returned to Mount Nevermind, some gnomes spent years studying him, trying to grasp the concept of wild magic with their scientific minds. The result is the Alchemist class.
- Cavalier/Samurai: Base for the Knightly Orders.
- Gunslinger: I don't think they fit DragonLance.
- Inquisitor: With the return of the gods after the War of the Souls, Inquisitors become an important part of the Holy Orders, helping reclaim lost followers and places of worship.
- Magus: Not sure about this class, maybe reflavor it as renegade hunters. Also, Ariakas and Gilthanas can be considered magi.
- Oracle: Not needed, Mystics are the spontaneos divine casters in Krynn.
- Summoner: I really don't think they fit DragonLance.
- Witch: A witch can serve a god through one of the Beast Lords, who act as the witch's patron (and the witch get a familiar of the same animal the Beast Lord represents).
If I remember correctly, and this may be a spoiler, the Rise of Solamnia trilogy, set after the War of Souls, has gunpowder so a gunslinger might work.
You also have another option. You could just use the flavor of the Dragonlance setting. Your game may not conform with the books, but were is the fun in that? I would start from the beginning & redo it as if it had always been a Pathfinder setting. I should mention this is what I am doing with Spelljammer. Too many conventions of both settings were meant to be played with 1e(Dragonlance) or 2e(Spelljammer) rules. Keeping as true to the experience as I can, while admitting that I can't make it exactly like the original. If you did this with Dragonlance, you would have all of the eras of play to draw from for adventure ideas, while making it harder for your players to really know what to expect. This lets you use the rules & quit trying to shoehorn too many of the Pathfinder things into something they weren't really meant to simulate.
I am by no means saying that is what you need to do. I just think that would be more satisfactory, in the long run.
Thanks for the advice, guys. I don't have time to comment on each piece individually, but it is all appreciated.
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If I remember correctly, and this may be a spoiler, the Rise of Solamnia trilogy, set after the War of Souls, has gunpowder so a gunslinger might work.
The series also had the Knights of Solomnia adopt a non-good deity as their Patron of all things good and holy, used Gold as the standard treasure , and did all kinds of things to went completely against DL. This is usually seen <opinion> as both not canon, and a terrible book for DL, though possibly better if not DL.
It is true that they had gunpowder, it was more along the lines of a form of bomb and some early (asian style) cannons. Guns, while kind of a possibility, are also a long ways off.
I would start from the beginning & redo it as if it had always been a Pathfinder setting. I should mention this is what I am doing with Spelljammer. Too many conventions of both settings were meant to be played with 1e(Dragonlance) or 2e(Spelljammer) rules. Keeping as true to the experience as I can, while admitting that I can't make it exactly like the original. If you did this with Dragonlance, you would have all of the eras of play to draw from for adventure ideas, while making it harder for your players to really know what to expect. This lets you use the rules & quit trying to shoehorn too many of the Pathfinder things into something they weren't really meant to simulate.
I am by no means saying that is what you need to do. I just think that would be more satisfactory, in the long run.
This makes a great deal of sense to me. I think that it would give the best result. It might change some nuance/fluff slightly but it could also make for some really cool options.
This makes a great deal of sense to me. I think that it would give the best result. It might change some nuance/fluff slightly but it could also make for some really cool options.I would start from the beginning & redo it as if it had always been a Pathfinder setting. I should mention this is what I am doing with Spelljammer. Too many conventions of both settings were meant to be played with 1e(Dragonlance) or 2e(Spelljammer) rules. Keeping as true to the experience as I can, while admitting that I can't make it exactly like the original. If you did this with Dragonlance, you would have all of the eras of play to draw from for adventure ideas, while making it harder for your players to really know what to expect. This lets you use the rules & quit trying to shoehorn too many of the Pathfinder things into something they weren't really meant to simulate.
I am by no means saying that is what you need to do. I just think that would be more satisfactory, in the long run.
It is something I have considered many times. I have the original 1e adventures, somewhere, lol. Another thing, it allows you to make the players center stage & not have to have the NPCs steal the show. If the players can't be sure, assuming they already know the story, what you are going to pull. A GM could assign needed back story to any PC. Gives the option of having some of the the plot hooks actually being with different style characters. Some of the backgrounds to the original War of the Lance characters make great reading, but suck when you try to work it into your own characters. So, while saddle yourself with the problem.
Some racial conversions:
Change Hatred to: Dwarves receive a +1 bonus on attack rolls against humanoid creatures of the ogre and goblinoid subtypes due to special training against these hated foes.
+2 Dexterity, +2 Constitution, -2 Intelligence, -2 Charisma.
Small: Gully Dwarves are Small creatures and gain a +1 size bonus to their AC, a +1 size bonus on attack rolls, a –1 penalty to their Combat Maneuver Bonus and Combat Maneuver Defense, and a +4 size bonus on Stealth checks.
Slow Speed: Gully Dwarves have a base speed of 20 feet.
Darkvision: Gully Dwarves can see in the dark up to 60 feet.
Survival Instinct: Gully Dwarves receive a +2 racial bonus on Stealth and Survival skill checks. Gully dwarves may use Survival checks to forage for food and basic necessities, even in cities.
Resistant: Gully Dwarves receive a +2 racial bonus on Fortitude saving throws, and a +2 racial bonus on saving throws against disease and poison.
Pitiable: Gully dwarf diplomacy consists of flattery, begging, crying, cringing, and pleading. They’ve honed this ability to a fine art. Gully dwarves receive a +2 racial bonus on Diplomacy checks used to convince an enemy not to harm them.
Weapon Familiarity: Gully dwarves are proficient with any improvised melee and ranged weapons. They are considered to have both the Catch Off-Guard and Throw Anything feats.
Automatic Languages: Gullytalk, Common.
Bonus Languages: None.
Pitiable could also give +2 bonus to Bluff checks to appear harmless.
Pitiable could also give +2 bonus to Bluff checks to appear harmless.
I like this.
I would drop the skills and just say "any checks" as diffirent circumstances might call for one or the other, or a different skill all together.
Might also add some bonus languages, as they do tend to be slaves to a lot of races, and would need to pick up some languages.
You say +2 to any checks to appear harmless? Aside from Diplomacy and Bluff, what are the other possibilities? Disguise, Wild Empathy, maybe Perform (act).
I left bonus languages at none as described in both the Campaign Setting and Races of Ansalon, but adding at least dwarven to the list makes sense.
Maybe something along the line: Gully Dwarves gain +2 bonus to all Charisma-based ability and skill checks made to appear harmless, be underestimated, pittied or ignored in disgust?
Hellder, do you have any more material available? I would be really interested in seeing it!
Maybe something along the line: Gully Dwarves gain +2 bonus to all Charisma-based ability and skill checks made to appear
harmless, be underestimated, pittied or ignored in disgust?
That seems reasonable.
Hellder, do you have any more material available? I would be really interested in seeing it!
Yes, I'll be posting more here to see what people think.
Next the dark dwarves. Instead of just using the Duergar, they appear a lot closer to common dwarves:
+2 Constitution, +2 Wisdom, -4 Charisma.
Darkvision: Dark Dwarves can see in the dark up to 120 feet.
Skulk: Dark Dwarves receive a +2 racial bonus on Stealth skill checks, and a +2 bonus on Perception skill checks. This replaces Defensive Training and Hatred.
Light Sensitivity: Dark Dwarves are dazzled as long as they remain in an area of bright light.
What sources are you using for the conversion?
For the races, mostly Races of Ansalon, since it has the most up to date rules on the races, taking some ideas for racial traits from the Pathfinder Advanced Player's Guide and the Advanced Race Guide Playtest.
Shouldn't the ability score adjustments be a net +2 to keep them on-par with the rest of the Pathfinder races?
The Advanced Race Guide Playtest has other options for ability score adjustments, and even with the +2/+2/-4, dark dwarves end with 11 'race points' (Core Pathfinder races have 10). I'm aiming at something like 11 or 12 race ponts for the DragonLance Races.
Nice races. I just got my copy of Bestiary of Krynn. Once I have Dragonlance Campaign Setting and Age of Mortals, I can start building a campaign.
How much would a copy set me back?
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Leaves of the Innof the Last Home was a great book. It is somewhat similar to the WayFinder magazine, just a collection of all kinds of lore, recipies, music, stories, and all that, blueprints for various Gnomish devices. It does not have any game material, though, and I agree one of the grewatest books.
Leaves From the Inn of the Last Home is really a great and fun reading. It is the first of four books, the others being The History of Dragonlance, More Leaves from the Inn of the Last Home, and Lost Leaves From the Inn of the Last Home. More Leaves was released around the time of the Dragonlance Fifth Age SAGA, and Lost Leaves was the last book released for DragonLance 3.5, but all of them are independent. I don't have the More Leaves, but of the ones I have, the original Leaves is the best.
Now, the elves.
Elvensight: Qualinesti Elves can see twice as far as humans in conditions of dim light, and can see in the dark up to 30 feet. This replaces low-light vision.
Social: Qualinesti Elves receive a +1 racial bonus on Diplomacy and Sense Motive skill checks. This replaces elven magic.
Elvensight: Silvanesti Elves can see twice as far as humans in conditions of dim light, and can see in the dark up to 30 feet. This replaces low-light vision.
+2 Dexterity, +2 Wisdom, -2 Intelligence.
Elvensight: Kagonesti Elves can see twice as far as humans in conditions of dim light, and can see in the dark up to 30 feet. This replaces low-light vision.
Woodcraft: Kagonesti Elves gain a +1 bonus on Knowledge (nature) and Survival checks. In forest terrain, these bonuses improve to +2. This replaces elven magic.
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I have all of them, and I didn't really care for the last two as much, but also I didn't care for nearly anything after Summer Flame's last chapter onward, (as much). I am beginning to fall for the 5th Age material, so I might give Lost and More Leaves another try over all when I'm home.
Thge last one, (Lost Leaves?) has an amazing autobiography by one (the treu dragonhighlord and over emporer of all ansalon, and general nice guy) Mr Toede, as well as the Top 10 reasons Kobalds are better than Draconians. Bith are fantastic and make the book worth it, if nothing else.
I understand you, I was very disappointed with Summer Flame at the time. In fact this campaign I'm running is the fist time I try something set in the 5th Age, just because I bought all Sovereign Press books and after that risked reading the Dark Disciple Trilogy. But still I assume many things from Summer Flame ocurred diferently in my campaign.
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It is growing on me, but only because of the 3E material. One thing I really do think is bad is that it seems locked in times that I really don't care for. from 2E to 3E, we where kind of stuck with after Summer Flame. Now we are stuck with after almost everything has been fixed, but now what?
I really wish they would start moving DL along. PS, I actually liked teh Dark Disciple trilogy. It has gotten a lot of just ok reviews, but I liked it. It has a very atypical Kender, explores a lot of the world, focuses on all the other faiths and even has both an official paladin, and a Cleric/Mystic married couple (venturing into the land of "what next" between primal and godly magic existing together for once).
They're HERE! I got all the Dragonlance books I ordered in the mail!
I think I'll use most of the conversions posted in this thread.
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I'm happy for you. I would read through the Core book first, then the Age of Mortals. The Core book is more era neutral, and explains the basic world, while the Age of Mortals is more specifically about an ear of play, sort of a setting itself within the setting, but it builds upon the Core book. As always, I'm at at your service if you have any questions.
- Bard: Removed all conjuration (healing) spells from his list, and changed the soothing performance ability for the berserkergang ability (from the savage skald archetype). Created the Chorister archetype, a divine version of the bard, devoted to either Branchala, Sirrion or Hiddukel.
- Knight: Based on the Samurai, because the Cavalier is too focused on the mount, and knights in the DL novels are mostly on foot or riding dragons. Just replaced Mounted Archer with the ability to deal nonlethal damage with lethal weapons taking only a -2 penalty. Created the following orders: Ergothian Cavalier, Golden Hammers, Knights of Solamnia (all 3 orders), Knights of Neraka (Order of the Lyly), and Legion of Steel.
- Mariner: Converted based on the version from Legends of the Twins.
- Mystic: Converted from the Campaign Setting, in the same style the sorcerer was updated from 3.5 to Pathfinder, with access to one of the following Spheres: Animism, Channelling, Healing, Meditation, Mentalism, Necromancy, Sensitivity, and Spiritualism.
- Ranger: Added a minotaur combat style and a Mystic Ranger archetype.
- Rogue: Created a Handler archetype.
Could you please post all of these for me?
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Thge last one, (Lost Leaves?) has an amazing autobiography by one (the treu dragonhighlord and over emporer of all ansalon, and general nice guy) Mr Toede, as well as the Top 10 reasons Kobalds are better than Draconians. Bith are fantastic and make the book worth it, if nothing else.
The cool thing about Lost Leaves is that the vast majority of articles featured in the book were written by fans of the setting. In the dying days of the Dragonlance 3e era, Margaret Weis Productions put out a call for articles for this book on the official Dragonlance forums, asking the fans to contribute to the book. It was a fun little opportunity for fans of Dragonlance to contribute in an official capacity.