Pathfinderized Dragonlance: Considerations?


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Just wanted to give a little bump and get some more discussion going. Is anyone currently running a DL campaign, working on a DL project, or even reading the DL novels?

I just finished a project I've been working on for a while, a timeline for the Age of Dragons alternate Krynn from the Legends of the Twins sourcebook. I have submitted it to the Nexus, I'll put the link up whenever they post it. I'm currently considering possibly doing a DL PbP on here also.


Here is my completed Age of Dragons timeline, hope you guys enjoy and I welcome any feedback.

Age of Dragons Timeline


Thanks, Remy!


This thread made me miss my old DL days, which ended right before Saga was released.

-TimD


3.5 had some really great things going for it.


3.5 Dragonlance was so wonderful!


Since there are a few DL PbP's going on I thought I would bump this thread up.


I wonder how one would handle different gods for the Knights of the Skull and Nuitari as a patron for some of the Thorn Knights in the Age of Mortals.


Has anyone converted the draconians with the race builder?


This is awesome! I'm working on my own PF/Dragonlance campaign and I just spent an hour reading the entire thread.

@Gambit: I'm also NOT a fan of the Age of Mortals setting (in fact pretty much anything after the penultimate chapter of DoSF) so I will also be using a variant of the Age of Dragons "Alternate" timeline rom LotT.

In my version, Alchemy is a way of tapping into the ambient magic left behind during the Chaos War. It was discovered by the gnomes meddling with things they did not understand (no surprise there!), but when they realized its destructive potential it was rapidly seized upon by both the Knights of Solamnia and the Knights of Neraka, leading to an alchemical arms race of sorts. Since it does not come from the moons, and has abilities (ie healing) that are not associated with High Sorcery the Orders are leaving it alone - for now! It is also believed to be the key to creating Ogre Titans, but no mortal alchemist has figured out how to create such a radical, permanent transformation.

I run Bards as divine spellcasters, drawing their power from one of the non-lawful deities (usually Gilean, Branchala, Hiddukel, or Sirrion but others are possible); conversely Inquisitors serve the Lawful gods. In this way, every god grants power to at least one of Druids, Bards, or Inquisitors as well as Clerics.

Clerics are house ruled a bit to bring them more into line with the old specialty priests from 1st/2nd ed AD&D - primarily this affects the way domains work.

I hate Prestige Classes with a passion, so Knights are run as Cavalier Orders - although I might borrow the suggestion to run them as Samurai instead. There is only one "order" for the Dark Knights - Knights of the Thorn should be multiclass cavalier/wizards while Knights of the Skull should be multiclass clerics.

Wizards are also tweaked - they can only specialise in one of the schools (or focussed schools) favoured by their order, and gain the benefit of moon magic at 4th level. Then they gain an "Arcane Secret" at 8th level and every 4 levels after that, which can be one of the arcane discoveries from Ultimate Magic, one of the Order Secrets from the DL sourcebooks, or one of the Kingfisher abilities. I'm not sure how to work renegade wizards - I may rework each of the Orders of High Sorcery as an Archetype (along with Knights of the Thorn)rather than trying to have one class to rule them all.

I am tempted to allow the Witch class for arcane spellcasters trained outside the Orders of High Sorcery, particularly among the Kagonesti or human nomads, but I am struggling to fit them into the cosmology as written. If I did, they would be tolerated by the Orders privided they had one of the moons as their Patron but they would not be part of the Orders as they come from a different tradition. "Witches" are referred to in the books, I'm just not sure the Pathfinder Witch class is the best fit for the powers they are described as having...


The Alchemist Class actually works rather well with Dragonlance. In times where the Divine/Arcane magic were stunted many people turned to alchemy to make up for the shortfall. Alchemists are not arcane casters, their extracts are basically chemical creations as are their bombs. I don't see the Orders of High Sorcery being opposed to Alchemists considering they don't use magic but instead use science.

Shadow Lodge

The issue with that is that the entire point of nerfing Clerics, Druid, and Wizards was that the world would be a harsh and gritty place. If you allow Alchemists, I would severely restrict them (initially) to the power of an NPC class so that they don't ruin the entire theme and story elements. They would also loose all healing sorts of abilities see the Dragonlance Bard). Something that might be cool for the early AoM, where the new magic is not discovered yet and people are draining magic items still would be to have the Alchemist be a form of preSorcerer that literally tries to expand the current practice, instead of draining items, literally tries to ingest/inject/inhale/embed them, hoping to one day be able to charge themselves enough one day to act like a rechargeable battery for magic energy.

As far as the Witch, I'd probably handle them almost exactly like DL Sorcerers. Arcane casters that are basically renegade by nature and flavor-wise walk in the worst part of both worlds. They are pretty universally mistrusted by everyone just like Wizards are (to the point of mob justice sometimes) and being renegades are likewise hunted by the Tower mages and do not have even other arcane allies to help them out. The issue here is that this pretty strongly removes them from play as players, (which can be really good and cool, too).

You could even throw in some extra bits. Maybe they are why the gods of magic do not have Clerics. They tried to have small cults in the past to try it out, and the blending of arcane and divine magic just didn't work, creating these drider-like abominations. Maybe they made some sort of dark bargain with someone before the gods or dragons returned, having no understanding really what they where doing. You probably want to avoid the typical concept of "unknown patron" here, but some odd things like the Huldrefolk (Bestiary of Krynn pg 64).


Witches could be a Taladas thing. As I recall moon magic often has a much more "Organic" flavor over there and practitioners would often consider it a natural force.


Rod, how if the Orders of High Sorcery are dedicated to focused magic why would you limit what they could specialize in?


So i was thinking that the noble could be a version of the bard without spells, they give spiffy speeches and whatnot. not sure what they would trade their spells for though.

Maybe each level in which they can cast the next higher level of spells they get a bonus feat.


That is an interesting take, Clff. Could you write something up?


[dot]


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Umm ok...

Noble

Favor: The Noble has the ability to acquire minor aid from anyone he or she meets. By making a favor check, a Noble can gain important information without going through the time and trouble of doing a lot of research. Favors can also be used to acquire the loan of equipment or documents, or to receive other minor assistance in the course of an adventure.
A favor check is a diplomacy check The DC ranges from 10 for a simple favor to as high as 30 for formidable and highly dangerous, expensive, or illegal favors. A Noble can’t take 10 or 20 on this check, nor can the Character retry the check for the same (or virtually the same) favor. Favors should help advance the plot of an adventure. A favor that would enable a character to avoid an adventure altogether should always be unavailable to the character, regardless of the result of a favor check.

The DM should carefully monitor a Charismatic hero’s use of favors to ensure that this ability isn’t abused. The success or failure of an adventure shouldn’t hinge on the use of a favor, and getting a favor shouldn’t replace good roleplaying or the use of other skills. The DM may disallow any favor deemed to be disruptive to the game.

Also most people expect a favor to be returned at some point.

A character gets a bonus on favor checks equal to 1/4 their bard level.

This ability Replaces bardic Knowledge.

At 1st and every 3 levels thereafter (4th, 7th ect) the Noble gains a bonus feat, this can be any feat she qualifies for these feats can be rogue talents. Greater rogue talents are only selectable with bonus feats after 10th level. a character must meet all prerequisites for their rogue talents for example a Noble could not take a rogue talent that involves sneak attack.

Bardic Performances.

Nobles may use diplomacy in place of a Perform in the use of bardic performances.

When a noble attains a new bardic performance she may choose to Instead select a performance from the Court bard archtype. For example when a court bard would learn Inspire courage she may instead learn Satire. Below are the court bards performances for ease of use.

Satire (Su): A court bard can use performance to undermine the confidence of enemies who hear it, causing them to take a –1 penalty on attack and damage rolls (minimum 1) and a –1 penalty on saves against fear and charm effects as long as the bard continues performing. This penalty increases by –1 at 5th level and every six levels thereafter. Satire is a language-dependent, mind-affecting ability that uses audible components.

This performance replaces inspire courage.

Mockery (Su): A court bard of 3rd level or higher can subtly ridicule and defame a specific individual. The bard selects one target who can hear his performance. That individual takes a –2 penalty on Charisma checks and Charisma-related skill checks as long as the bard continues performing. This penalty increases by –1 every four levels after 3rd. Mockery is a language-dependent, mind-affecting ability that relies on audible components.

This performance replaces inspire competence.

Glorious Epic (Su): A court bard of 8th level or higher can weave captivating tales that engross those who hear them. Enemies within 30 feet become flat-footed unless they succeed at a Will save (DC 10 + 1/2 the bard’s level + the bard’s Cha modifier). A save renders them immune to this ability for 24 hours. Glorious epic is a language-dependent, mind-affecting ability that uses audible components.

This performance replaces dirge of doom.

Scandal (Su): A court bard of 14th level or higher can combine salacious gossip and biting calumny to incite a riot. Each enemy within 30 feet is affected as if by a song of discord for as long as it can hear the performance. A successful Will save (DC 10 + 1/2 the bard’s level + the bard’s Cha modifier) negates the effect, and that creature is immune to this ability for 24 hours. Scandal is a language-dependent, mind-affecting ability that uses audible components.

This performance replaces frightening tune.


So I've been reading over Castles & Crusades recently. I have to say, that system seems that it would run and support a pre-Age of Mortals campaign VERY well.

It has 13 classes, only 4 of which cast spells (Cleric, Druid, Wizard, Illusionist), a Bard class that could easily work well as the Noble archetype, and even sports a core Knight class.


How have you been Remy?


Interesting Clff


I've been well my friend, got some time off of work for the holidays. How is your DL campaign going?


It stopped for a bit, loss of players and then I finished working on my dissertation. I might be starting another one up after the holidays. Interested?


Quite possibly, but only if I can play my Solamnic Knight Paladin, the one that was BFF's with your overwhelmingly compassionate and easy-going Silvanesti Wizard. ;)


glad ya found it interesting shalafi.


He was a son of Silvanesti, lol!


Remy, look at my thread, Shalafi's DL Campaign.


Happy New Year DL fans. I believe that this is the 30th year of DL.


Shalafi2412 wrote:
Happy New Year DL fans. I believe that this is the 30th year of DL.

Yes it is indeed the 30th Anniversary of Dragonlance.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Dotted for ideas. I'm running DL1 Dragons of Despair in April and I'm still vacillating between whether I'll use AD&D or Pathfinder rules...


The did update the old modules of the Dragonlance Chronicles to 3rd edition (not sure if it was 3.5 or 3.0), though they seem to be pretty difficult to acquire. It would make it easier to update to Pathfinder by using those. I don't know what the differences, if any, there would be between the old AD&D and the 3.0/5 versions.

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32

Samy wrote:
Dotted for ideas. I'm running DL1 Dragons of Despair in April and I'm still vacillating between whether I'll use AD&D or Pathfinder rules...

Depends on what other material you have for Dragonlance.

If you have the DL support for D&D 3.x then you should be fine converting to Pathfinder (especially if you or your players are playing a lot other PF games.)

Liberty's Edge

Ran the 3.5e version updated to Pathfinder. Was pretty fun although I started making more and more tweaks to the Encounters as I went on.
It would have been more fun had I simply reimagined the modules and used them as a source of ideas and world information as some of the originals are pretty... terrible. They start out good but the quality really drops near the end, and the updates are faithful so they fix none of the problems.

If playing them straight, I might use 5th Edition, as the modules tend to have encounters with lots of low levels monsters, which works better in 1e and 5e than 3e/PF.

Grand Lodge

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Don't know if it's been mentioned, but you'll find alot of work done in that area here.

http://www.dragonlanceforums.com/forums/group.php?groupid=10

There's a whole organised project of people working on this area... perhaps you should look at this.


The 3.5 modules might be available on Troll and Toad for cheap.


http://www.trollandtoad.com/Board+Games+and+RPGs/1680-1321-5209-5662p1n10.h tml

Sovereign Court

Hellder wrote:


Do you mind waiting until I finish by posting the mystic? I intend to try and put everything together with some changes suggested here after this, bacause having everything in one place will help me too ^^

Bump. Hellder, do you still have a /doc or /pdf of what you have assembled?


Has anyone taken a look at the WOHS archetype on the Dragonlance Nexus 2.0 or the Citadel Guardian?

If you have, for the WOHS is it just me or has nothing really been added>?


I am currently running a Pathfinder version of Dragonlance, I am running currently pre-WotL, and instead of following things directly, I am using the places, but re imagining the setting. The whole campaign idea came up after an in depth conversation with Tracey Hickman and I began with his approval (not that I needed it, but it was nice to have). I allowed bards, but they were Arcane instead of Divine. However, the Bard only lasted a couple of sessions and was killed ridding Palanthas of a gang that was threatening the city. We are working our way up to the WotL, but after it I will probably hit some of the highlights from LotT and then just go in whatever direction the PCs happen to take it. I completely removed the Heroes of the Lance, and now the PCs are set to take that place...and Ansalon, and Krynn, could end up a very different place.

Liberty's Edge

Gambit wrote:

Also if you decide to just use the Oracle as a base for the Mystic, it can be done very easily, just remove the curse ability. Personally I really like the flavor behind Mysticism, however the 3.5 Mystic class always felt kind of....bland, something the Oracle is defiantely not, and the lack of the curse ability gives it the perfect feeling for Mysticism. The Mysteries also lend themselves extremely well to much of the current DL lore and good for many pre War of Souls former clerics

I agree with this approach.

Mike


I've been reading through Kingmaker recently and it has gotten me thinking on where a similar campaign could take place on Ansalon. My initial thought was possibly Abanasinia, but it is the focal point for so much of Dragonlance already, and I think a Kingmaker campaign would best be played somewhere in the gameworld that isn't as heavily traversed.

So after a bit of research I think the region of Kharolis would be the perfect fit. It's just big enough without being too large and has a prexisting city that would work well as a Capitol in Alsip. For the campaign I was thinking have any human characters start out as locals, and have adventures in the local area, running afoul of a local goblin tribe, investigate the blight Druids of Morgion in the Firecrab Hills, and several other low to mid level adventures until, around mid level, the menace to the south starts to become very active.

A massive army of goblinoids and thanoi are finally prepped and ready to attack the north. As a precursor to this, several goblin assassins sneak into the towns of Alsip, Pensdale, Windkeep, Hamlet, and Halter Wood and assassinate the duke/baron/mayor of each town, all in hopes of causing enough panic and confusion as to ease their conquest of the area. Then the PC's must step in and rally all the towns as a collective whole, organizing and army to fight the evil humanoids. First they have to route the advancing army, then retake the fortresses of Waw and Vash, and finally make a strong push to the south to end the threat once and for all while also reclaiming the southern towns of Than-Khal, Valens, and Swftwater.

The culmination of this would be one of the PCs would become King and rule the nation from Alsip, while the rest could become lords and rule the other cities, or take a royal position in Alsip, or do their own thing, depending on the characters desires. Then some kingdom building fun could ensue, establishing trade partners (Qualinesti, Thorbardin, and Tarsis all being good options) and rebuilding cities and fortifications that may be run down or were damaged in the war.

As a final high level adventure a red dragon moves into the area of the southwestern portion of the Kharolis mountains and is a threat to the Kingdom that the heroes will of coarse have to confront. If all goes well, they slay the dragon and end up with a nice dragon horde to build and refine their new Kingdom with, just in time for retirement.

What do you guys think? And has anyone else thought of a Kingmaker style campaign in Dragonlance?


Looking at the different options for the wizards and cavaliers and other classes, in a DL world are the PRCs even necessary?


Shalafi2412 wrote:
Looking at the different options for the wizards and cavaliers and other classes, in a DL world are the PRCs even necessary?

Dragonlance's Dragon Rider PRC is absolutely necessary.


Kryt, how would you update it for Pathfinder?


I generally DON'T update Prestige Classes for Pathfinder, because Pathfinder principles tend to screw Prestige Classes over. There's a reason you almost never see anybody take PrCs anymore.

That being said, it is a fair bit on the weak side...

Well, for starters using the Monsters As Characters rules from the Bestiary to determine the Dragon's Level [Cr instead of HD+LA] should be a fairly significant but not MASSIVE boost. Retaining the -3 effective character level granted by the class should make most Large Dragons of the youngest available age category available as Dragon Cohorts by Level 11 [which is the first level the class is available.]

Just come up with something worthwhile to stick into Level 4 and it would probably be fine.

[Disclaimer: I'm AFB at the moment and using This Page as a reference. It states its modified so I may be missing another dead level or two.]


IIRC there is a feat that allows you to use a smaller or larger mount early on.


Shalafi2412 wrote:
IIRC there is a feat that allows you to use a smaller or larger mount early on.

You're thinking of the Mighty Steed feat, it's actually a feat for the mount rather than the rider and it enables the creature to serve as a mount for a creature of its own size category.

If you wanted to work the granting of that feat to the Dragon Rider's Dragon Cohort as part of level 1, you could pretty comfortably scale down the entry point to the PRC to something more like level 6-

EDIT: I'd make that 7th level minimum. It would be kind of weird to grant a cohort to a PC of a level too low to take Leadership.

Dark Archive

Shalafi2412 wrote:
Looking at the different options for the wizards and cavaliers and other classes, in a DL world are the PRCs even necessary?

I feel lot of the organization-based ones could be done away with and replaced with archetypes. Such as this one, which I don't think that it's been mentioned yet.

On a personal note: Has anyone done a Staff of Magius conversion here?


I have seen the archetype you linked Zavas and I like it. I am playing that right now in a PbP game.

THe problem would come I think with the different Knights of Solamnia.

Which version, DLCS or Legends of the Twins?


kyrt-ryder wrote:
Shalafi2412 wrote:
IIRC there is a feat that allows you to use a smaller or larger mount early on.

You're thinking of the Mighty Steed feat, it's actually a feat for the mount rather than the rider and it enables the creature to serve as a mount for a creature of its own size category.

If you wanted to work the granting of that feat to the Dragon Rider's Dragon Cohort as part of level 1, you could pretty comfortably scale down the entry point to the PRC to something more like level 6-

EDIT: I'd make that 7th level minimum. It would be kind of weird to grant a cohort to a PC of a level too low to take Leadership.

Does the new cohort book have anything that would be helpful along these lines?

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