Creating a character for a "low magic" campaign (both items and PC's)

[Twoswords]

The new campaign we are starting features some specific rules:

1. We are starting at level three
2. We are only allowed to take a "magic level" for every 5th character level (i.e. If we start at cleric lvl 1, then we need to take 4 non-magic levels before we can add on another cleric, wizard or anything similar level)
3. We have all Pathfinder books to use.
4. The GM is not yet sure how to handle classes such as bards or rangers that get spells. What is clear is that they wont get spells (unless we choose that as a "magic level") but will get compensated in other areas such as other feats or similar.

What I already know is that the setting will be very similar to the world of Conan. We will not be able to rely on healing potions, wands, and similar items.

So my question is now; what character, or combo thereof; should I create? What is the absolute best character I could make in this circumstance? Even low level magic such as cure light wounds or a Mage armor spell will be very useful if used at the right time, but with Wisdom, Intelligence and Charisma being extreme stats for casters, I am not sure how to proceed, since those stats are not really useful for many other classes (with the exception of INT for skills)

Been playing for a long time, but I feel a bit lost at this one.

[Twoswords]

Oh yes, and we all start as human for stat/feat/etc purposes.

I thought for a while that taking a level of Sorcerer would work well, as it would give me access to a number of spells, as well as hand me a familiar which would provide me with an added bonus (depending on which creature) Comments, suggestions, thoughts?

[cranewings]

I run this sort of game pretty often. While I allow full casters, I never allow MIC and the CR of each encounter is so high that healing via a single caster doesn't always cut it. If he isn't letting you even have full casters, it can be an even bigger challenge.

So what you need to think about is how you are going to fight without taking damage. This is a part of what makes this sort of game different and gritty, because you can't just smash thoughtlessly and let god fix it for you.

Even Conan put on full plate when he was planning on going to a battlefield. He only dressed down for his roguish encounters.

Think about this - if a goblin has 6 hp and your fighter does 20 damage, would you be better off with a shield?

Archers, high AC, setting up combat and stealth are all good options.

The best character, by far, is a switch hitting fighter with skill focus stealth and Iron Will. You can use it to do anything.

[Mysterious Stranger]

Play a archetype that gives up his spells for something else. A Paladin of the Holy Light, or a Trapper Ranger for example. The Paladin would work really well as you would still be able to heal with lay on hands.

Another idea would be a Monk, but only if you are using a high point buy or can roll decent on the stats. Without magic the AC and damage of your opponents will be significantly lower than normal. Having two stats to increase your AC and a built in bonus as you go up in level will work really well in this type of setting.

[Lakesidefantasy]

Sorry, I really have nothing to add to this thread.

I just wanted to say I would really like to play in such a campaign.

Do you need an extra player? Are you located in the San Francisco Bay area?

Anyway, have fun.

[Joyd]

This isn't advice for playing as a player in such a campaign, but one simple way to sort of cut the gordian knot regarding half-casters like the Paladin and the Ranger would be to just make their magic-free archetypes the standards. They give up relatively little else, so they're a nice base point.

[calagnar]

A few things to keep in mind. You will want to pick the fight not stumble in to them. You will need to avoid as many fights as you can. With out wands or magic healing it will be very hard to recover from any fight you get in to.

My suggestion is to go Ranger/Rogue. With 6 levels in ranger and then all other levels in rogue. This will let you have your none magic level class and your magic class ability's stack for there over all skill sets. This combination will allow you to cover more with skills then going full ranger. With out magic you will need away to do special task's with out it. Full investment in skills normally not taken will go along way. Skills like Linguistics that people normally do not use because they have comprehend language, and tongs. Skill's like stealth, diplomacy, bluff, intimidate, and sense motive will have more of a influence on the game with out the ability to cast charm person or other enchantment spells.

Combat Focused Game
(Ranger6/Rogue[Bandit]14)
Role Playing Focused Game
(Ranger6/Rogue4/Master Spy10)

[Sangalor]

I am not quite sure when something counts as "magical" here. Do spell-like abilities count? Supernatural ones?
How about eldritch heritage?

Something interesting might be fighter 5/shadowdancer x. It gets lots of defensive abilities and should be quite survivable.

[Crimson Jester]

Rouge, with lots of use magic skill. He will be better in the long run than a wizard or other spell caster.

[hogarth]

Twoswords wrote:

What is the absolute best character I could make in this circumstance?

The best character you could make would probably be one with healing, either taking a level of cleric (channel energy) or witch (healing hex and cauldron hex), assuming you're not playing with some house rule that makes natural healing easier.

The irony is that, by restricting casters to 1 out of every 5 levels, it encourages every PC to have a little bit of casting/healing, which is rather un-Conan-y.

Crimson Jester wrote:

Rogue, with lots of use magic skill. He will be better in the long run than a wizard or other spell caster.

There's nothing about the rogue class that makes it particularly good at Use Magic Device. And there's no guarantee that there will be any magic devices in the campaign in the first place!

[DDogwood]

hogarth wrote:

The irony is that, by restricting casters to 1 out of every 5 levels, it encourages every PC to have a little bit of casting/healing, which is rather un-Conan-y.

That depends. Some players will grab all the spellcasting they can, simply because it's restricted, but I've known plenty if players who would sigh in relief that they can finally play non-casters without being hopelessly outclassed in the teen levels. It really depends on the group, and we should probably assume that the DM in question knows his group.

There's also a matter of interpretation; nobody will have anything above 1st and 2nd level spells, and most of the divine spells at these levels are pretty decidedly on-flashy. A character could pray to Krom at he start of a big battle, and nobody would necessarily realize that he had just cast Bless using his two Cleric levels unless they, too, are trained in the mysteries of magic.

I would say that the best character in this kind of game would be a switch-hitting Ranger or a Rogue. The Rogue isn't going to have spell casters taking over his specialty, so his skills go from "useless" to "pretty sweet", especially in a melee-heavy party. A Ranger gets great combat ability and flexibility combined with a good skill list and plenty of skill points -and without spells to solve all your problems, skills will be very important.

I'd actually steer clear of magic abilities unless they really fit your character concept. Really religious characters could pick up a level of Cleric every now and again. The only Arcane classes worth considering are Witch and Wizard, and those would probably be best with a knowledge-focused Rogue. Utility spells and divinations will generally be more valuable than combat spells.

[ferrinwulf]

Have a look at the Conan D20 rpg, that will give you a feel for the type of characters best suited for this kind of game.

Barabarin, fighter, rogue, types work best, ranger works fine without spells (use the skirmisher archtype), other classes don't fit well with the magic focus in them so you are pretty limited really. Cavalier is probaly the only advanced class that works. Bard I cant see working at all.

See if you're DM will add the classes from Freeport in the game, The Noble and Corsair work pretty well too and I think they balanace OK.

I'm planning on doing a similar type game but mixing Conan with PF and giving it a swashbuckling edge. The mgaic system and Scholar class in Conan is great for a low magic game. If you can get it maybe ask the DM to have a look at it.

Healing is an issue but Conan also has a novel idea of healing minus HP to zero by drinking a pint of wine or similar spirits..perfect for the feel of the game. And don't forget those action poits too....

The trouble with pathfinder is that it is very magic orientated and some of the classes etc might not work very well if you take this out, esp when you throw SR, DR and Creature magic abilites in to the mix too.
But then im sure you're DM has all this in hand.

[hogarth]

DDogwood wrote:

hogarth wrote:

The irony is that, by restricting casters to 1 out of every 5 levels, it encourages every PC to have a little bit of casting/healing, which is rather un-Conan-y.

That depends. Some players will grab all the spellcasting they can, simply because it's restricted, but I've known plenty if players who would sigh in relief that they can finally play non-casters without being hopelessly outclassed in the teen levels.

To clarify, I'm talking about encouraging in the sense of creating the "best" character, which is what the original poster is asking. I agree that lots of people would love to play in a game with no spellcasting PCs at all (assuming that there was some sort of house rule in place to speed up healing, for instance).

[Zephyre Al'dran]

See about building a ranged Paladin with the Hospitaler & Warrior of the Holy Light archetype. This should give you sufficient healing with out actually casting spells. Ofcourse, I think your best bet would be to see if the Paladin or Ranger fit his build idea, as they both have sufficiently low magic for low magic campaigns. Finally, see if he considers Alchemist to be magic. Many consider alchemist to be a science based class, so this might be a good alternative to the missing healer in your party. That said it is going to be crucial for longterm survival to have some kind of healer in party, as you can't rely on non magical healing for most crucial instances and you can't guarentee that you will find alternative healing methods. The bigger issue is aside from the fighter and the Gunslinger, every other class has some kind of access to a magical or supernatural ability. You'd need to get a much clearer detail of what qualifies as magic and what is or isn't allowed in the campaign.

[Elinor Knutsdottir]

Don't worry about it. Play something interesting that suits you (if I was to play in Hyboria I'd go with a Hyrkanian horse-archer/pony-shagger). It's the GM's task to set encounters that match the abilities of the characters s/he's got, not write a bunch of encounters and then see how the characters handle them. If my party hasn't got a rogue I go through any adventure I'm writing and take most of the traps out because otherwise there's a fair chance of 'rocks fall, everyone dies'. Players shouldn't be forced to play something because 'the party needs a <blank>' and the absence of <blank> should be the GM's problem, not the players. Having said that, running PF without magical healing is likely to be very challenging because in a hit point system, you lose hit points. If you can't get them back by the time you get to the big bad there's a good chance of an accidental TPK. But, not your problem, it's the GM's problem.

PS: Speaking of Conan, can someone please tell me what an AM Barbarian is, I keep seeing it mentioned as an uber-optimised character and I have no idea what it is.