I'm confused about how Elemental Fist works. Does it take place of any attack action?
That's the impression I'm getting, so could I use it with an Attack of Opportunity?
Since I'm pumping Strength instead of Wisdom (My wisdom is currently 14) do you think this is a good trade for Stunning Fist?
Also, the 12th level ability, just to clarify, Slow Time would allow me to use Sweeping Strikes 3 times since it's an extraordinary ability, correct?
I could apply quite a few dirty tricks if this is true.
You cannot combine Maneuver Master and Monk of the Four Winds - they both replace Perfect Self.
Also, Elemental Fist is layered ontop of a single melee attack, much like Stunning Fist. In other words, you could do a flurry of blows, say with 5 attacks, and pick one of those attacks to be an Elemental Fist attack (you obviously need to call it in advance). That attack will then get the benefits of the Elemental Fist feat (and potentially Monk of the Four Winds progression benefits).
And yes, Maneuver Master and Monk of the Four Winds cannot be stacked on the same character.
All of the Monk's special strike feats are "riders" on an unarmed strike.
They can be combined with pretty much any attack, an AoO, a standard, a full round like Charge or a Spring Attack. And of course any single strike in a flurry of blows.
They can also be stacked on each other;
So you can execute a Perfect Strike/Stunning Fist with a Vital Strike if you want to.
I'm not sure but, I don't think you can add them to a Maneuver. At least I can't think of a way that it would be possible. Most require damage in some way and most likely fall under the same ruling that Sneak Attack does when it comes to overcoming DR.
I'd allow you to combine Perfect Strike with a Disarm/Trip/Sunder but I doubt that that is RAI. I also don't think that it's an optimal combo personally. Perfect Strike is written in a somewhat wonky way and does not include a mention of Combat Maneuvers. It's a feat that affects weapons with the Disarm/Trip special quality however so this is a grey area.
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Perfect Strike cannot be used with unarmed strikes per the FAQ, only the monk weapons explicitly listed in the feat (or bows as listed, in the case of the Zen Archer).
Perfect Strike: Can I use this feat with unarmed strikes?
As written, you can only use the feat with the specific weapons mentioned in the feat description.
So why does the feat have Improved Unarmed Strike as a prerequisite, if you can't actually use it with unarmed strikes? Because the feat is intended to be a cool thing that monks can do, and monks get IUS automatically (barring an archetype that replaces that feat), so having IUS as a prerequisite means it's easy for monks to learn Perfect Strike but more difficult for other classes. The prerequisite could have been "monk level X," but that would mean that only monks could take the feat (prohibiting even other martial arts classes or archetypes).
Note that the zen archer archetype allows you to use the feat with a bow, which means there's a precedent for creating an unarmed-combat archetype that modifies the feat for use with other weapons.
—Sean K Reynolds, 07/25/11
If you were attacking with one of the monk weapons listed in Perfect Strike that had the ki focus ability, you could channel a stunning fist, elemental fist, etc, through it at the same time you used PS.
You cannot combine Maneuver Master and Monk of the Four Winds - they both replace Perfect Self.
What?
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/monk/archetypes/paizo---monk-a rchetypes/maneuver-master
I don't see that... Is this something that's not on the SRD?
The two archetypes can be combined. And to answer your OP (sorry, I skipped that in my first response) yes, you can combine Slow Time with Sweeping Maneuver to take three standard actions and make six combat maneuvers.
You cannot combine Maneuver Master and Monk of the Four Winds - they both replace Perfect Self.What?
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/monk/archetypes/paizo---monk-a rchetypes/maneuver-master
I don't see that... Is this something that's not on the SRD?
Damn! It's an error on the pfsrd page! I didn't know that. Damn. I wanted to do that combo too...
I think ultimately Abundant Step is probably more useful than Slow Time just because of the enormous Ki cost of Slow Time (I may take at least one vow.) However if I take Panther Style, I might WANT to provoke attacks of opportunity from movement. I will miss jumping through walls though...
But I think at lower levels Elemental Fist is probably going to benefit me more than Stunning Fist since I am not raising Wisdom higher than 14 (without items) and I'm focused on combat maneuvers anyway. And I highly doubt that we're going to get past level 5 so...
I think I'll go for it.
Damn! It's an error on the pfsrd page! I didn't know that. Damn. I wanted to do that combo too...You cannot combine Maneuver Master and Monk of the Four Winds - they both replace Perfect Self.What?
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/monk/archetypes/paizo---monk-a rchetypes/maneuver-master
I don't see that... Is this something that's not on the SRD?
? I'm not spotting any error on pd20fsrd.com for either archetype. They are accurate with the PRD. Maneuver Master doesn't replace Perfect Self.
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If you really want Elemental Fist, take the first 2 Dragon Style Feats. Besides boosting your unarmed damage, it allows you to qualify for Elemental Fist AND if you're a monk, it's damage progresses as if you were a Monk of the Four Winds! Cool part is that if you invest in those 3 feats, you will have both Stunning Fist and Elemental Fist by level 7, or as soon as level 5 if you dip into Unarmed Fighter.
BPC
I don't know if I'm blind, drunk or just confused, but I'll just go away now...
If you really want Elemental Fist, take the first 2 Dragon Style Feats. Besides boosting your unarmed damage, it allows you to qualify for Elemental Fist AND if you're a monk, it's damage progresses as if you were a Monk of the Four Winds! Cool part is that if you invest in those 3 feats, you will have both Stunning Fist and Elemental Fist by level 7, or as soon as level 5 if you dip into Unarmed Fighter.
BPC
Interesting thought.
I can see the benefit of this being that I would, at level 7, have 7 stunning fists and 7 elemental fists - right?
The downside to this is that I wouldn't be able to enjoy these benefits until level 5, so I think that's out of the scope of this particular campaign.
That said, that makes a very nice long run build option.
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If you really want Elemental Fist, take the first 2 Dragon Style Feats. Besides boosting your unarmed damage, it allows you to qualify for Elemental Fist AND if you're a monk, it's damage progresses as if you were a Monk of the Four Winds! Cool part is that if you invest in those 3 feats, you will have both Stunning Fist and Elemental Fist by level 7, or as soon as level 5 if you dip into Unarmed Fighter.
BPC
Interesting thought.
I can see the benefit of this being that I would, at level 7, have 7 stunning fists and 7 elemental fists - right?
The downside to this is that I wouldn't be able to enjoy these benefits until level 5, so I think that's out of the scope of this particular campaign.
That said, that makes a very nice long run build option.
I'm going to try that for my latest PFS character, although he's starting out as a Barbarian for some good ol Rage action and a lvl 1 BAB boost for Power attack early.
If you do want to try that earlier, you can go Master of Many Styles. With your bonus feats being replaced with Style Feats, you can do this:
1b: Dragon Style
2b: Dragon Ferocity
3g: Elemental Fist
All at level 3. Then it's a matter of picking a complementing style to make up the lack of flurry (the Elemental Styles are interesting, while Mantis Style makes your Stunning Fist harder to resist to make up your lower Wisdom).
Note, Master of Many Styles is not compatible with Manuever Master due to the bonus feat and flurry changes.
If you really want Elemental Fist, take the first 2 Dragon Style Feats. Besides boosting your unarmed damage, it allows you to qualify for Elemental Fist AND if you're a monk, it's damage progresses as if you were a Monk of the Four Winds! Cool part is that if you invest in those 3 feats, you will have both Stunning Fist and Elemental Fist by level 7, or as soon as level 5 if you dip into Unarmed Fighter.
BPC
Interesting thought.
I can see the benefit of this being that I would, at level 7, have 7 stunning fists and 7 elemental fists - right?
The downside to this is that I wouldn't be able to enjoy these benefits until level 5, so I think that's out of the scope of this particular campaign.
That said, that makes a very nice long run build option.
I'm going to try that for my latest PFS character, although he's starting out as a Barbarian for some good ol Rage action and a lvl 1 BAB boost for Power attack early.
If you do want to try that earlier, you can go Master of Many Styles. With your bonus feats being replaced with Style Feats, you can do this:
1b: Dragon Style
2b: Dragon Ferocity
3g: Elemental FistAll at level 3. Then it's a matter of picking a complementing style to make up the lack of flurry (the Elemental Styles are interesting, while Mantis Style makes your Stunning Fist harder to resist to make up your lower Wisdom).
Note, Master of Many Styles is not compatible with Manuever Master due to the bonus feat and flurry changes.
You just gave me an idea for a Wisdom based monk...
The extra damage from Elemental Fist might just be enough... I'll have to contemplate this further...
(The only problem now is the to-hit... what to do... Ooh, maybe a dip into Cleric for Guided Hand...)
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You just gave me an idea for a Wisdom based monk...The extra damage from Elemental Fist might just be enough... I'll have to contemplate this further...
(The only problem now is the to-hit... what to do... Ooh, maybe a dip into Cleric for Guided Hand...)
Well, should have SOME Strength; even if you aren't trying to meet the prerequisites for the feats since you'll get them as Bonus feats, to make the most out of Dragon Ferocity you'll want at least a Str 14, preferably higher. Ie, use Str for your hit.
Also, you can start out with a +1 BAB by going Unarmed Fighter first, then go Master of Many Styles Monk. Besides getting a bunch of fun Monk weapons at your arsenal, Unarmed Fighter ALSO grants a free Style Feat as its level 1 bonus feat. With that, you can go
1fb Dragon Style (Unarmed Fighter)
2mb Dragon Ferocity (MoMS Monk)
3g Elemental Fist
3mb some other fun style feat (I suggest one of the Elemental Styles)
While it slows down unarmed damage and a couple of other monk abilities, you can use a much larger array of cool monk weapons to support you (Sansetsukon ftw) and will have 2 powerful styles at level 3, and a set of Monk's Robes will fix some of that and then some!
Also, one thing to note is that if you use Dragon Ferocity to qualify for Elemental Fist, you only get to use 1 energy type until much later (level 11 when your BAB is high enough). Keep that in mind if you do want a particular Elemental Style feat.
Personally, I think the Shaitan one is the best given its chance to stagger with Elemental Fist strikes or the Shaitan blast, the best area of effect type out of the 4 final Elemental Style feats, acid usefulness as a damage type (to prevent regeneration, for example), and the relatively low amounts of acid resistance out there. Plus I like the idea of your internal energies being so destructive that it actually eats away at those you strike!
Sincerely,
BPC
PS: No, I haven't thought about this much <_<