Greetings!
I have a question about the Long Jump as described in the Acrobatics Skill section of Core and the Monk's bonuses to it.
There are several permutations of my question, so please bear with me.
This might be a no-brainer, but am I able to jump over the bad guys during combat? I mean, if I'm fighting a couple mooks and see a magic user 50 feet away on the other side of them, can I attempt an acrobatics check to jump over to that magic user? (say there is something else behind them preventing me from acrobating past them and running to the guy...or if I just want the visual :D )
What if I wasn't in a mook's threatened square, but still had to jump over them?
What if the magic user was off to the side, and not behind the mooks, but I was still in a threatened square?
If the jump is part of another action (if I remember the description correctly), does that mean I can initiate a full round attack action against that magic user if I jump 50' and land next to him?
If the jump is part of another action (again, if I remember the description correctly), does that mean I can take a move action to get past the mooks, then declare a standard attack action against the magic user, starting with a jump and ending with the actual punch/kick/trip/etc.?
Does landing next to a guy from such a jump provoke AoOs?
In the last session the GM kindly allowed me to jump 50' (the ceiling was very high) over a couple mooks and some destroyed furnature, land next to the guy, and trip him. I'm just curious if that was a homerule, or if the rules RAW back that decision up. :) I did have to roll for the acrobatics check of course, but there wasn't much chance I would fail it.
Optimistic Cynic wrote: This might be a no-brainer, but am I able to jump over the bad guys during combat? Sure. Make sure the part of your move that is jumping takes you at least 10' high, otherwise you're provoking attacks of opportunity as you move through the spaces directly above your enemies.
Optimistic Cynic wrote: What if I wasn't in a mook's threatened square, but still had to jump over them? Over them, but still adjacent to them? You provoke AoOs unless you make Acrobatics checks to avoid them.
Optimistic Cynic wrote: What if the magic user was off to the side, and not behind the mooks, but I was still in a threatened square? If you move out of a threatened square, you provoke an AoO, unless something says you don't. There are tons of things that might prevent an AoO.
Optimistic Cynic wrote: If the jump is part of another action (if I remember the description correctly), does that mean I can initiate a full round attack action against that magic user if I jump 50' and land next to him? No, because jumping is a form of movement, and you can't move and make a full attack (under the normal rules). If the action you take includes moving, then you can (usually) incorporate jumping.
Optimistic Cynic wrote: If the jump is part of another action (again, if I remember the description correctly), does that mean I can take a move action to get past the mooks, then declare a standard attack action against the magic user, starting with a jump and ending with the actual punch/kick/trip/etc.? Most commonly, a jump check is part of an action where you're moving. If you can move, you can (usually) incorporate a jump into that move.
Optimistic Cynic wrote: Does landing next to a guy from such a jump provoke AoOs? Landing from a jump is no different (as far as AoOs are concerned) than simply moving into the square, so in and of itself it would not provoke an AoO. However, if you're landing directly next to an enemy, there's a good chance you're leaving a threatened square above the one you're landing in, which would indeed provoke an AoO.
Thanks for the help! So essentially what should be done is if I need to jump over somebody, the difficulty of the jump should increase by however high I would need to jump. So the acrobatics check would be the length difficulty plus the height difficulty.
And leaving threatened squares does provoke.
Optimistic Cynic wrote: Thanks for the help! So essentially what should be done is if I need to jump over somebody, the difficulty of the jump should increase by however high I would need to jump. So the acrobatics check would be the length difficulty plus the height difficulty.
And leaving threatened squares does provoke.
The rules aren't clear on how high and long jumps interact, but I'd rule that you could apply the same check result for both DCs separately. In the case of your 50-foot leap, for example, you could also jump 50/4 = 12 feet straight up as part of the same check. (In fact, I'd require you to jump at least that high - you need the extra height to stay airborne long enough to complete your long jump.)
I can see why you'd want to combine the DCs, but doing so makes the final DC significantly harder unless you're willing to make bizarre gamist decisions, like a 50 foot long/1 foot high jump.
Irthos wrote: I can see why you'd want to combine the DCs, but doing so makes the final DC significantly harder unless you're willing to make bizarre gamist decisions, like a 50 foot long/1 foot high jump. What? You'd only have to be going like 70 miles per hour. That's totally legit.
EDIT: Just for fun, achieving that speed inside of ten feet requires something on the order of 16g of acceleration. Let's say we've got a 200 pound adventurer (probably light with all the crap that gets carried, I know). And let's say that the maximum horizontal force they can put down is equal to their drag capacity, that puts it at 3200 pounds of force. So a character of 24 strength could presumably do it as long as their Acrobatics check was sufficient. Of course, an overhead press is probably more indicative of the actual force a character is applying, in which case it'd need like 35 strength.
It's superhuman and preposterous, but if you want to massage the rules enough, you can sort of make it work.
Hmmm, okay I was just thinking about this. The Long Jump has its own table of DCs. Essentially the DC is the distance you want to jump. So you want to jump 50 feet, the DC is 50.
Do you think it is safe to assume that just to make it that far, you will naturally have to jump to a certain height for the arc to make sense (and avoid the 50 foot long/1 foot high situation)? That the height/distance is already taken into consideration for the displayed DC values?
Maybe a bump to the DC might not be needed after all, thinking about it like that. Or least, the bump would be small, based on the fact you might be trying to jump a little higher than strictly needed.
Just remember a couple of things here: a monk is always considered to have a running start for a jump (vertical or horizontal). Second, you get to add your monk level to the jump check. Third, if you spend a point of ki you get a +20 to the jump check. And fourth (the thing most people forget more often than not), you gain a bonus based on your speed. You get a +4 bonus for every 10' your base speed exceeds 30'.
So, a 5th-level monk (the level where you get high jump) has (pre-ability score modifiers) potentially a jump check of +17, +37 if he spends a point of ki (5 skill ranks, +3 class skill, +5 monk level, +4 speed bonus, +20 ki expenditure). Plus your Dexterity modifier, and perhaps even one or two different feats adding additional bonuses.
A 10th-level monk has a base (pre-ability modifier) check of +35 or +55 (10 skill ranks, +3 class skills, +10 monk levels, +12 speed bonus, +20 ki expenditure).
A 20th-level monk has a base jump check of +67 or +87 (20 skill ranks, +3 class skill, +20 monk levels, +24 speed bonus, +20 ki expenditure). Once again, this is not even considering your ability score modifier or any feats which add to your acrobatics skill for jumping, or magic items.
Master Arminas
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