Goblin Squad Member
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Not sure if this is an old idea or not -
Other sandbox games I've tried, the developer makes the sandbox but then pretty much leaves the players do the rest - hoping they build interesting & needed content, but not doing anything directly to make it happen - so taking the risk that they wont. Theme park games, total opposite, the devloper hires designers to build the content, giving them control to have professional quality content in their game, but at signifigant cost, and the players aren't involved.
The idea here is hybred the two approaches - Developer 'hires' players, via quest rewards, to create specific content.
Example: Developer contacts a guild and tasks them with building a city, specifying the location, structures, and facilities it should have. If they can do it within an allotted timeframe they get an in-game reward. Another example: Developer tasks a guild to build a quest, specifying that it has to involve a dungeon of given specifications, travel to several given locations, and other elements. If they do it, the guild gets and in-game reward.
In the flavor of the game, the developer could interact with the players in the guise of being the gods of Golerion. So, a guild leader might get a message from Gorum "Gorum wishes you to build a city and temple in his honor, [list of requirements], if you can raise it by december first, you will be granted 10 swords of power and an army of oursiders to defend it [or other appropriate in-game reward]"
The advantage for the developer is they can essentially hire design staff for free, granting them flexibilty to take an active hand in making the world more interesting and functional for the players, while giving players incentives to build content rather than focus on PvP.
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Goblin Squad Member
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So to an extent what you're describing is using the "theme-park" aspects of the game to promote the Player driven content? I must say, I like it. When I first saw this thread I assumed you were interested in actual developer's tools to change the world, but as you describe it, I think its a very interesting and smart idea. One of the issues as described I can see, is the sense of favoritism that might be implied by developer's "choosing" a guild, as well as the burden that might place on the dev staff (or customer support or whatever), but I still think its a solid suggestion worth discussion.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Whilst its a good idea in theory, developers 'hiring' players could descend very rapidly into accusations of favouritism and imbalance. It would have to be a very very transparent system to allow that kind of thing.
That being said though, anything that encourages exploration and creativity in the sandbox gamestyle should be absolutely rewarded.
Whilst its a good idea in theory, developers 'hiring' players could descend very rapidly into accusations of favouritism and imbalance. It would have to be a very very transparent system to allow that kind of thing.
That being said though, anything that encourages exploration and creativity in the sandbox gamestyle should be absolutely rewarded.
They could alleviate those sort of accusations by creating a sort of "town message board" area where they could post up "fliers" for the jobs they have and then have it be first come, first serve.
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Goblin Squad Member
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What if a guild or charter was selected for a building project, say a great shining temple where all the gods could be worshipped.
Said guild/charter could then put out a call for resources and aid. All players would be able to participate by donating either resources or gold. Once a designated value of either has been donated by a player that player would receive a badge of honour to show that they were there when the great temple was built.
This would all be managed by the selected guild whose reward could be that their guild symbol would be emblazoned upon the new building for all future generations of players to see.
Upon completion this building would also then become part of the landscape, controlled by the development team.
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Goblin Squad Member
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As to opening up the backend or developer's tools to the public I have some mixed thoughts. On one hand you can get one or two super gems of really interesting stuff. On the other you get at best a vast horde of really bad, broken, and nonsensical content, and at worst deliberate engineered exploits for the advantage of the creator. Its also a whole other design task to create developer tools that are "public friendly", one that would likely pull money/time/people away from progression of the core game. I think its more likely they're going to look to more of an RPG Superstar style situation, where the community contributes quality design work, and then the wizards behind the curtain construct the virtual.
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Goblin Squad Member
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This all assumes that the game will let players build buildings, shops, and other content, maybe not as wide open as minecraft, but something like that
On the favoritism issue, the quests could be seeded around the world like other kind of quests are.
Maybe an avatar of a Golarion god appears at some obscure location, and gives the quest to the first inidivdual who happens upon it who meets some basic criteria, and then vanishes, Burning Bush style. So the quests are like an easter eggs, and they respawn periodically until the quest it fulfilled
- for example a low level quest could be to just build a shop, or something small like that, which is open to any character that finds the quest and has the power and resources to be able to do it. A high level quest could be to build a city, or a dungeon, and requires a guild head of a certain size guild to unlock it. A guild member might find the avatar-questgiver, contact their guild to get an officer out there to unlock and accept it, first come first serve. If they can't complete the quest in a given time, the quest respawns and that guild is locked out so some other guild can get a shot at it.
This way goblinworks can have a throttle on the game to guide what player content is built.
All they have to do is seed some quest givers around, provide a proper in-game incentive, and then sit back and watch the players do the rest. The game needs a market over here, drop a quest giver. The game could use a dungeon over there, drop a quest giver. Can work in reverse also - too much abandoned building clutter, drop the Green Way quest giver tasking players to demolish this or that and replace it with trees and such.
You can even take it a step further and use this as a means to guide PvP. For example if they gave a guild a periodic reward for keeping some item at a given location (like the temple they're quested to build in the bottom of the dungeon they're quested to build), and have the item be attractive to other players to get (could be a powerful piece of gear, for example) you can thereby set up a capture the flag kind of dynamic that's an analog to the McGuffin in the Dungeon adventure, but built and defended by players for players.
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Goblin Squad Member
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This all assumes that the game will let players build buildings, shops, and other content, maybe not as wide open as minecraft, but something like that
As per the blog posts, this assumption is based on stated intent. Obviously there will be some limitations on the appearance and so on, and not as widely customizable as minecraft, but that is one of the stated goals.
On the favoritism issue, the quests could be seeded around the world like other kind of quests are.Maybe an avatar of a Golarion god appears at some obscure location, and gives the quest to the first inidivdual who happens upon it who meets some basic criteria, and then vanishes, Burning Bush style. So the quests are like an easter eggs, and they respawn periodically until the quest it fulfilled
This was more or less as I was thinking, but not articulating. Some number of variations on this would be easily enjoyable and as long as the relevant player base receives some sort of feeder type quest of notifications, I could see this working well.
- for example a low level quest could be to just build a shop, or something small like that, which is open to any character that finds the quest and has the power and resources to be able to do it. --edit--
I've assumed from blog posts that the drive to build "low level" buildings will be entirely within the province of player drive. I could be making broad assumptions, but my thinking goes as such: the developers are not interested in driving the players to fill the sandbox, but instead looking to provide us with all the tools to do so on our own, or (perhaps more importantly) not to fill the world if the players don't want to. The player's choice is the key to a sandbox.
This way goblinworks can have a throttle on the game to guide what player content is built.
--edit more good ideas --
Again I believe this to be not in the interest of the Devs to drive us but instead to allow the drive of the player base to fulfill these goals if they wish to. I believe they intend to fill the world with a variety of content with the idea that if the player base wishes to clear the wilderness they can, and if they don't then wild it shall remain.
All that said, I still like the ideas, and if I've assumed incorrectly, I hope this sort of thing forms a base of thought for the devs.
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Goblin Squad Member
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As I'm sure has already been stated; player-driven content in a sandbox like Minecraft is fine. It's designed to be driven by the player from the ground up. From what I've seen, Pathfinder Online isn't going to be like that. Yes, it's a sandbox in that we, the player, will largely be left to our own devices, but Goblinworks will define all of the tools implicitly and then see what we can do with them.
Unlike Minecraft, you won't be able to construct enormous machines from constituent parts; Goblinworks will provide the machine lock, stock and barrel and if they don't, it won't exist.
From a "Craft-A-Dungeon" point of view, again, it'll be hit and miss. Some players simply will not understand what it takes to make a good dungeon and the rest of us will be left to sift through the 90% dross to find the gems.
It's a cool idea, but just not practical, certainly not at release. If anything, it'd be better suited as a recruitment tool for Goblinworks. Find the players whose creations are ranked the best, and then offer them a job.