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Ok, I'll look into having those parts of the book printed out for easy reference. Considering Cody's barbaric nature, I think I'll go with a classic Conan feel and play his trusty rogue sidekick. I'll have to read up more on rogues and their variations before I give more details. But I'm leaning that direction.
@GM Drachenfels: 'Ninja' is an alternate core class for the rogue which is housed in the Ultimate Combat book which I own. If you would like to peruse it as a possibility, I will forward the info about it. I will also send you whatever archetype variants the AP has for rogues as well.
@ODV: Do you need any of the AP or UC info for your possible fighter concept?
Gabe, you're such a pal!
Pin, I MAY need to look into the UC, I have the AP I believe.
Edit: Especially if they have a "Viking" class
Thanks, Pin. Ninja sounds fun! And yes, shoot me a general feel for any variants of rogue you have and that will help me decide.
Again, since I enjoy playing female characters, I might base my rogue off of Sparrow from the Jackie Chan movie, The Forbidden Kingdom. But that's just one concept bouncing around my head.
Another idea is going with a scoundrel type rogue/archer like in the classic Conan movie with Arnold. That would be fun too.
A site for character generating, might be useful?
Edit: Looks like it mostly just turns your stuff into a character sheet. Eh.
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I think we need to see one of the girls from 'The Den' cosplaying Drachenfels' girly rogue...
Also....Drachenfels, need your and Stavo's input on the Adventure Path which sounds most intriguing to you. ODV has already thrown his two cents out there. Check page 1 for the list I put up.
Quick question actually, aren't some of these adventure paths going from levels 11 or 14 onward? Or all of these starting at level 1?
They all start at level 1 and run through 13-15.
Kingmaker or Serpent's Skull both sound really fun to me.
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mmmmK. Well I'll be playing a half orc Drunken Master. I can be the wise council in Ragnar's fight to become King (my vote for Kingmaker). I've got a neat backstory planned as I roll up my character and such I'll put it out. Basically, he's was left at the steps of monastery instead of killed at birth. After spending years training he finally decides to leave his nest and travel the land on his own journey for enlightenment. Pinvendor, if you could take a look at both monk and drunken master and tell me what you think that'd be great cuz some of the drunken master abilities replace pretty good monk abilities and tell me what you think.
I also like the idea of Ragnar taking center story in his quest to become king. Good idea, Stavo. Stavo and myself can play his allies who struggle at his side to see his plans (and our own) come to fruition.
I'm still pinballing around in terms of what I will play. I tend to try to find an avatar picture I like, then I build a character off that. Whatever I do come up with, however, will not be a character bound by any sort of alignment mentality.
I thought of a fun twist of the paladin/fighter story. Since we are starting as level 1 characters and because I understand it's not possible for me to have fallen (yet), I was thinking it would be interesting to play the daughter of a once very noble and proud paladin who fell from glory himself and perished. Now, years later, I've taken up his old sword and armor, not as a paladin, but as a simple fighter, struggling in my own meager way to redeem our family name and his honor. I'm not 100% sure how that could tie into the Kingmaker story arc, but I'm sure there are ways to do it.
Pinvendor: What do you think? The Drunken Master Stavo plans to play is already a rogue style character in some ways, yes? I could see a Barbarian, Fighter, Monk combo being very interesting.
I was planning on going the plain fighter route as it is likely Ragnar was trained for combat by this comrade of his fathers, and not just an angry force...but maybe I can blarblarian it up. But honestly, if you wanna go fighter route, thats a-ok, I'll do Barbarian. We can always crossclass and prestige later eh!
I'm not sold on any one idea yet. I'm just bouncing things around. I know you've played Barbarian before in Warhammer and they can be limiting. If you're going fighter, and Stavo is going monk, perhaps it would be wise to have some type of ranged assassin/rogue/ranger in the group. Spell casting doesn't much appeal to me so that's out.
Yeah who ever wants to play spell casters!
There is a class called Alchemist that is pretty broken apparently haha.
It would probably be best to have some kind of support class as two melee is usually more than enough. There are a ton of possibilities just with the two player handbooks (I actually like the APH better since it gives more variety). Like I said earlier the Summoner class also seems very appealing but I played a lot of FFX back in the day so it might just be wishful thinking.
As for alignment, Monks are lawful which if I understand right means I have to make up some laws for the Order of the Staggering Fist (eh, I think I'll have to work on the name too). I'm actually ok with playing lawful if this is the case.
Everyone here is obviously a lot more familiar with the Pathfinder system than I am. I'm going to need some hand holding and such for awhile as I learn things. I really know nothing about the world, gods, combat, etc at all. That's part of the appeal though. I'll have a chance to learn something new.
Because of this I'll probably play a character that is relatively naive and young. That way their inexperience will mirror my own.
As far as support goes, perhaps Pinvendor can play that role with his player character? I believe he will be GMing and playing along with us.
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And the Adventure Path winner is:
Download the FREE player's guide
On another note, I do not know how to pull single pages from the pdfs as pdfs to send the info about archetypes. I tried to figure it out and even considered buying the full version of Acrobat to do it, but I couldn't locate anything in its description which said whether I would be able to do that. I don't condone file-sharing for products which are still in print and the companies who made them are still in business (and as this is a public forum I would not recommend any of you admitting to such if you do), however giving you a little piece for character use doesn't seem too much like pirating....but I am stumped on how to do it unless I literally print the pages. Do any of you have the tech savvy on how I can send you little snippets?
Since most Adventure Paths assume at least 4 PCs and you 3 seem to want to play mostly damage dealers, I think it would probably be okay if I throw in a GM controlled character
I am actually considering running a Summoner class PC who will start out summoning a healing/protection monster to supplement the damage the suggested PCs will provide. I am going to completely steal a concept which I read on the forum a year or so ago if I do. It's actually an idea I have for a character I plan to write a story about, but then I ironically saw a thread where someone described my "original" concept almost identically, so now I can't claim it's completely original anymore. *sigh*
Other ideas I have considered: Alchemist who uses his potions to temporarily give life to clockwork automatons, Lutke Geshburger the Rogue!, a "magic-blade" Magus who specializes in counter magic (essentially a mage-killer assassin), or a cleric of some type.
Concepts I think would be wicked fun to make work: gnomish ninja (hell yes!), The Great Enchanter Constant Drachenfels! (illusion school wizard), party of color magic wizards. Read the description of this 3rd party class here.
If you guys don't have some type of magic user or cleric in the party, scrolls, potions, and wands will become super important as many creatures and traps will either be extremely difficult or impossible without magic. DnD 3.0/3.5/PFRPG seems to have been designed around the idea that almost every PC wants to be "superhuman" I think. Lol. I can do my best to help modify this, but considering my own inexperience with actual play, there might be times when I will give you a monster or a trap and only when it's eating your intestines realize that it's designed for defeat assuming magic is available to the PCs.
Also you may want to consider this alternate class: Cool concept! If this sounds intriguing to you, I have bought the pdf and I will review it more closely to see if it can work.
As for as familiarity with the system, PFRPG is just a revision of DnD 3.5 which is a revision of DnD 3.0. Overall, it's the same d20 system which has been around for what? 20 years? Chances are if you have played any DnD after 2nd, you have played some variant of these rules, lol. Hence why everyone seems to know about it. Also consider the basic fighter/rogue/cleric/wizard combo found in most MMOs was born from this game, so the assumption for most modules and monsters created is that players will either have at least one of each type or be supplementing the missing element with magic items, potions, scrolls, familiars/animal companions, and/or followers. I am confidant we can make it work whatever happens.
Ulfen are a hardy race, truthfully very much the same as a stereotypical Viking,, they have to be to live in the North. Blond,Red and Brown hair abounds with lighter eyes and light skin. I would imagine they are your standard humans aside from those genetic dispositions already mentioned.
Edit: I read Drachenfels spoilers (So what! Sue me!) and the time thief looks brillllllliant.
Edit: I read Drachenfels spoilers (So what! Sue me!) and the time thief looks brillllllliant.
Looks? Oh yes, Jenny Poussin does look brilllllliant posing in skimpy outfits doesn't she? Yum!
I didn't even notice that was her as I am on my phone at work, however, having seen her other pathfinder costumes mmmyeaaahhhh
I have to say that it's impressive the sheer amount of content that exists for Pathfinder. Poor poor Warhammer doesn't even have a fraction of this kind of creative goodness in its vaults.
And yes, I used to play Dungeons and Dragons years ago, though the rules escape me now. Still, I was once pretty familiar with the d20 system so I'm sure it will all come back to me in time.
As far as character creation, wow! It's a bit daunting. So many choices and quirks and weird/strange/fun things that can be done. That being said, I better start simple. Later, when I know more about the game and the world and I'm more comfortable, I can start introducing more complex characters.
And yes, I'll open my mind a bit to the idea of magic. I know I'm going to have to if we'll be adventuring in this new world.
Okay...here it is. I the way magic works in 3.5/PFRPG. It's stupid that a spellcaster is limited to a piddly few spells per "day" until he sleeps. Theoretically a low-level spellcaster could blow all of that in one battle, and then basically be useless until the party has a chance to rest for several hours!!! That's right, eight hours of sleep, minimum, plus one hour of study. This doesn't take into account the caster taking part in watch or any time in camp spent doing anything else (crafting, examining an artifact, studying a pertinent tome of knowledge, etc.). I have personally played in games where we would specifically find a place in a dungeon that would be "announced" safe by the GM so we could all (including the GM) metagame this imposed sleep cycle of 9 hours for the casters.
Then we could discuss the fact most casters have to plan their spells in advance. What's the justification for this for wizards? They forgot their spells. WTF?!! How does one have your magic spells be based on INT and you forget??? Just stupid to me.
So this is how it will be. Whatever class you are that gives "spells": bards, wizards, clerics, paladins, blah blah blah, you will be able to successfully cast the number of spells per day that's listed in your grid. If (I should say "when" here) you would like to cast more spells or spells which you did not "prepare" for the day, you will begin gaining a special fatigue for arcane casters and divine ire if divine. The points will accumulate based on the level of the spell you use, and of course will require you have access to those spell levels. So no teleportation spells at level 1 just by absorbing the fatigue.
I will create some tables which will explain the effects for your use. I am eliminating the "sleep requirement", but naturally full rest will eliminate any fatigue buildup for arcane and extended meditation/prayer/piety will remove divine ire. Spell Fatigue will diminish over time not actively spent exerting yourself. Probably in the 1 point per hour range.
Also the "justification" for why spells are limited is hereby banished from our game. BANISHED!!! Wizards DO NOT forget spells. The spell-per-day list is now to indicate the number of spells for which you have rote memorization, have prepared the ingredients in advance for quick use, and set aside wizardly power specifically for those spells. Other spells may have you rummaging for components or using inner stores of energy, hence the fatigue. You may "switch" daily spells at any point we can reasonably say you have the time. No more BS 8 hours than an hour preparing ALL your spells for the day. So dumb.
Also, spells may only be cast for fatigue if they have been previously cast as daily spells. Each spell level will have their own "XP" requirements, e.g. level 2 spells must have been cast 7 times as a daily spell before a wizard can cast it for fatigue points. Spells may be cast directly from your spellbook or any spellbook from which you can read for half the fatigue, but will take extra time to cast in this fashion.
As a result of this, I may de-power some of the higher level spells. I am pretty sure I will completely remove wish and spells similar to it. Why that spell was ever thought to be a good idea is ridiculous. I will also consider changing some spell durations too, so ask if you have any questions. I also realize this allows some room for some custom feats related to Spell Fatigue and Divine Ire, and if there is any interest I would be happy to work with you guys on them.
I realize this information may sound complicated since you may not be as familiar with the magic use in this system, but I assure you, it will make sense once we use it. Questions?
No questions. Sounds like you're bringing intelligent sensibility into a system that REALLY needs it. Very good ideas.
Re: Classes/careers
It would be interesting to play the time thief now that I think about it. I think I could have a lot of fun roleplaying that, with glimpses of the future and flashes from the past. Perhaps even at times the character could seem a bit mad, getting past/present/future confused.
I could also see the main arc for helping Ragnar become king might be a glimpse of a possible future that if I do not help, it might mean something horrible would happen: my death, the end of life as we know it, etc etc (leave this open for the GM's imagination).
I'm obviously thinking deeper into this class than I think most people in Pathfinder probably would, heh.
What do you guys think?
EDIT:
Read over Time Thief. Interesting. Complex. Fun. Still, not sure I'd be ready for something so advanced just yet. Might want to stick with my instincts and focus on something basic. My search goes on.
@Drachenfels: I am thinking a prophet type character would be a cool idea. If not the Time Thief, you could do an Oracle which is in the Advanced Player's Guide.
Here is what I am imagining. ODV's PC was born as the result of a raid and his grandmother was in fact of royal blood, cousin to the ruler of a kingdom. She was captured and taken back to the Lands of Linnorm Kings. time goes by and the ruler of the kingdom has been deposed in a coup. All trace of his line was hunted and killed. A couple generations later, it's discovered that ODV's grandmother had lived and had several children by her viking captor. Assassins are sent and a rival family in the Lands of the Linnorm Kings assist them with the "hall burning" to eliminate any trace of the royal blood. ODV's PC escapes or was never there due to some twist of fate (possibly due to a chance meeting with a Time Thief prophet[ess?]) and has now vowed to track the assassins and the members of the rival viking family who have been invited to visit the River Kingdoms.
It's a long road, and a drunken half-orc, Time Thief prophet[ess?], and a small shy young orphan girl may have been met along the way...
Also, consider this Drachenfels. The complexity is added over levels. You won't be able to increase stats piecemeal like we do with WFRP. It's literally an all at once, you just got better, level up. It will take a time for it to happen and you should have time to settle into the basics of the class at level 1 well before having to worry about the added abilities of level 2 and so on.
Now now hold on just a minute! Don't go changin my back story without me!
"hall burning"
Don't go air quoting! Hall burning was a thing! It was the meanest most heinous way to wipe out a rival, as you're killing off everyone, not just the person in question and denying them a death in battle, basically cutting em off from Valhalla. Dick move, I know.
That said, Ragnar doesn't necessarily need to be of 'Royal' blood as the Linnorm don't really work quite like that. He can be the son of a Jarl (chieftain, warband leader)
But I mean... whatever!
I just don't like the idea of being born and DESTINED to rule. Because thats like hyper railroading! From birth!
I prefer to have a character who has his goal (possible vengeance for family) but sees a way to make his own claim, win glory for himself and takes it!
Edit: BUT truly, who can control the situation of their birth!
Ok, I'll check out Oracle now :)
*shrugs* Didn't change anything. Just added how you were born. The royal blood was from the River Kingdoms area if you read the concept thoroughly not from the Lands of Linnorm Kings ancestor. You don't even know about the royal blood yet, if you paid attention to the little tale I spun.
Most vikings don't really want to stop being vikings, you know. I was trying to come with a reason why your character would travel hundreds if not thousands of miles away from his homeland in the "viking north" to an area where he is essentially an uncivilized brute compared to the rest of the populace then decide to build a "non-viking" style kingdom. If you don't like it, that's fine. We can just figure out something else less credible, lol.
Edit: Also I am pretty sure you wouldn't be able to show up and say, "Me Ragnar, you kingdom." Your relatives' throne was overthrown and possible the kingdom was split up, absorbed, whatever. It doesn't exist anymore basically. The Kingmaker AP provides a mechanic for you to carve out a piece of the River Kingdoms in general to rule your own place. I was just going to use that bit of flavor to assist with why some of the people in the wilds of the River Kingdoms would potentially choose to become a part of that. It certainly wasn't going to be a Sword in the Stone story, lol.
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NO DUDE! I WOULD BE ABLE TO!
ME RAGNAR!
YOU FOLLOW ME BECAUSE I ARE STRONGEST!
Edit: Ok I didnt read very well, recording podcast will come back to this shortly!
I'm leaning towards Time Thief more than Oracle as I'm favoring something more gritty and less majestic. This is what I have in mind so far:
* Young human female, perhaps learned her training on the streets. She doesn't belong to any guild or greater purpose. Uncertain of name at the moment.
* Has always looked at her ability to view the flow of time in her unique way as a 6th sense. It's perfectly natural to her, though from time to time it might cause her some confusion or what others would call madness. She might call that same madness 'clarity'.
* I'll need a reason why she'd have originally left the populated streets of whatever city she was from. Caught and sold into slavery? Followed a vision? Or perhaps signed on with Ragnar early? That would probably work best. Connected with Ragnar before the events of Kingmaker began.
* What bound her to Ragnar? I'll need some type of fitting vision of a future where Ragnar fails and the consequences of that, or, a vision of a future she might gain if she helps Ragnar. Being that she'll be a true neutral character, I'll leave that to you. She'll be loyal to Ragnar and the party out of a driving motivation for things that HAVE NOT yet happend or a fear of WHAT COULD happen.
I think I'll have a lot of fun with the mote system they describe. And I've played a lot of games like Assassin's Creed and Thief, as well as read books like The Shadow's Edge etc. I think I'll be able to bring a fun and unique twist to this character.
Fighter/Thief/Monk/Orphan -- sounds interesting, no?
@Drachenfels: You did see my comment about how you can choose Time Thief and not feel overwhelmed, right? I can string the game on for a pretty long time and just hold off giving you XP while you guys get the gist.
EDIT: Ninja'd!!
@drachenfels: Concept is solid. The Land of the Linnorm Kings is pretty far from the River Kingdoms, so no lie...you could have met up with Ragnar pretty much anywhere along the way. I will come up with an appropriate vision for ya which I will send you in private correspondence and you can disseminate it in whatever pieces you wish. This will allow you to have had your vision in whatever place you would like, and I can customize it to the circumstances of your meeting. You two work that out, sirs.
Awww, hello there Orphan Arielle!
Consequently, after you posted your avatar I had an idea. What if my time thief wasn't so much connected with Ragnar as she is with Arielle? Perhaps it's Arielle she's trying to protect from some dark future? Arielle would need a really strong reason for tagging along with Ragnar, but I can really see a good story coming out of a female rogue's connection with a young orphan.
Thoughts?
Definitely doable. In fact, it could be a combination of both. Perhaps the young lady sees something dark if Arielle isn't with Ragnar during his future kingdom building. We'll brainstorm off forum and work it out.
Sounds good! If I were reading a book thinking about these characters, I can see the orphan and my time thief pretty interlocked in helping each other. Makes for good heart string stuff :)
First of all, you didn't in the original post suggest the royal blood comes from the River Kingdoms. Just that that's where the people were heading.
My character would already be out of the Linnorm Kingdoms, like an island held by his father's comrade. The set up being he is going BACK to the mainland now and perhaps the River Kingdoms are on the way. Also, the reasons the Danes invaded England was in fact to get land that was more hospitable. They enjoyed looting and pillaging, taking s~!! back to Denmark, Sweden, Norway etc, but in the long run they were hopping to get all of England to be able to live on and eventually actually have a 'non-viking' kingdom.
Is this all the same with the Pathfinder Linnorm Ulfen? Nah probably not.
Why would these people in the River Kingdoms not come to someone who has proven himself in battle, shown to be a just man! But, we're getting ahead of ourselves. It's not like Ragnar may live to see a kingdom!
Set up: Ragnar was raised on a more tropical type home, he wants revenge but maybe he has spent too long away from the North and doesn't particularly like the cold at this point, or more likely, he knows he can't get his fathers lands and holdings back at this point, they've been divided up. Here are fertile lands much more likely to produce wealth, so why not take them before exacting vengeance! He's a viking in tradition but he has no glory to his name, he can't march right back into the frozen lands and find his father's killer, to cut his throat with his blade! Instead he has to to go back, secretly, raise himself and some followers, not letting his hidden enemy (His family's murderer) know he is still alive and vengeance is wanted.
Ragnar travels the River Kingdoms as Uthred, a man who would win glory and lands of his own.
Sounds good. Vengeance tales are fun. Especially when they have an orphan.
It was implied but that's not important. Let's just get everything straightened out for the game. The River Kingdoms are not close to the ocean and far from the tropics. Chances are you wouldn't have been there normally. But i am sure you can convince me, lol.
I still gotta think of how my character comes into all this. I envision a drunk Ragnar tries to take on an equally-drunk-yet-trained Half-Orc in a tavern somewhere (I really need to read up on the mythos and geography). After realizing the Half orc's competence in drinking and fighting, Ragnar asks the Half orc to join his inner circle.
Just an idea, but I think it's pretty solid considering the nature of both characters.
Corinne could be beautiful, young and lithe as she is, but it's not a trait she ever purposely put much effort into. Life on the hard streets had taught her many lessons, and the more she looked like a boy the better. For a young girl, there were worse things than death, and Corinne had seen that fate befall many other young women time and time again.
Agile and swift as an alley cat, Corinne always had a way about her, something uncanny, especially when it dealt with the passing of time. She had no way to explain it really, except that she could see the world in ways that no one else could. To her the past, present and future were all the same thing. It was just a matter of being perceptive enough to know what you were seeing, and quick enough to act on it! Yes, you had to be fast, or your opportunity would pass you by. Sometimes you'd get a second chance, sometimes not. It really was all a very fickle thing and Corinne didn't even try to bluff that she knew what she was doing half the time.
The only clue Corinne has of her true origin is a strange old broken timepiece she's always had, etched with a single word upon the back, Chroniker. Because of this, and perhaps a desire to sound self important, she's adopted her current title: Corinne the Chroniker. It seemed fitting to her, though no one paid her much attention or considered her more than a petty thief with a weirdness about her.
But everything changed the day she met Arielle, another young orphan much like herself...
Pinvendor: Hope you don't mind too much that Corinne is also an orphan. I imagine her tale will be far different than Arielle. I figured it would tie Arielle and her together and create a strong bond that's always good for party cohesion.
We'll still need to develop her vision of the possible future and how it ties her to Arielle, Uthred (Ragnar) and his Half-Orc Monk companion.
Pretty excited about this game. I have a lot to learn in terms of rules, but I'll read what I can when I can. I just purchased a new super awesome printer that we'll be setting up in the next week or two (doing the room first), so I'll be able to print out the PDF files.
I plan to bring Corinne to life in a very Brent Weeks sort of way. I like his gritty world and take on gangs, thieves, rogues, assassins and wet boys.
She'll be gritty, sarcastic and dangerous, but at the same time frail and in need of her friends and fellowship.
As I said, I like flawed characters. Hopefully her story proves to be an interesting one!
Slight edit:
The only clue Corinne has of her true origin is a strange old broken timepiece she's always had, etched with a single word upon the back, Chroniker. Because of this, and perhaps a desire to sound self important, she's adopted her current title: Corinne the Chroniker. It seemed somehow fitting, though no one paid her much attention or considered her more than a petty thief wrapped in a veil of strangeness.
Flows better now :)
From the quiet shadows of the alley, Corinne could see her mark. She watched the man carefully as he made his way through the crowd towards her, a thin fellow with drab clothing, but a large purse. Unconsciously, she fiddled with her long broken timepiece, waiting for the right moment to make the grab.
And then it happened. Time seemed to speed up around the young thief as she knelt motionless. She could see the exact path the man would take, the course he would travel, and how he'd stumble and stop, distracted when a fight breaks out directly in front of him.
Yes! That would be the moment.
When Corinne blinked, everything had returned to normal. There was the tale tell rushing sound she always heard after a vision, like water flowing into a dam, or the sound of air being sucked back into a room. The man had not yet made his way down the street, but Corinne knew exactly what would happen next.
When the fight broke out, she was there. It was simple really, the man was paying her absolutely no attention whatsoever. With a nimble cut from her simple knife, the purse fell right into her hand and she was off like a cat! She knew the amount of silver she just lifted would keep her and her fellow guild rats fed for a week, but soon enough the hunger would return and she'd be back on the streets, looking for her next mark.
With a sigh, Corinne sped down the alley and into the darkness beyond, her thoughts grasping at all the endless possible futures that might one day lead her from this wretched life to something more.
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I do hope Corinne will be a bit older when Kingmaker is going on. I dont want to have TWO little girls in my party! All the other Vikings will make fun of me!
Lol, he did say "very early adventures of Corinne". I believe he is just setting the stage for his PC's current evolution as a young adult woman.
And incidentally Drachenfels, no I do not have a problem with Corinne being an orphan. It's not like there is only one running around the world. Lol! Possibly only one like Arielle, but that's a different tale...