*GM Only* - Ttrouble in Hergstag *Spoiler*

[Marios]

Hello community!

I'm about to run ToTB and I've stumbled upon the following (do note that I really want things to "make sense"):

In the scenario description concerning Hergstag (pg. 22) it is mentioned that the children-turned-wraith spawns lured other children to Brother Swarm's lair to the hill to be turned into spawns as well.

Yet, how is this possible? Pg. 24 clearly states that the "wraith spawn "children" wander within a 150-foot-radius of their respective houses", and the hill is way beyond this radius. Furthermore, even if we assume that what really happened was that Brother Swarm laid in ambush near the house of a wraith spawn and used it to lure other children to him, we still have to face the problem that wraith spawns and wraiths are staggered under sunlight, therefore whatever happened should have happened during the night, right? What parents, in their right minds, would allow their children to roam outside after sundown, especially after the first 1-2 disappearances? (Note here that the respective ability of wraiths and wraith spawns is "sunlight powerlessness" and not "daylight powerlessness". Might this mean that they could be active during a cloudy day?).

Lastly, is it possible that Hergstag becomes a death trap for the party? There are 6 CR4 and 1 CR5 monster all of which are incorporeal (therefore mostly take half damage) and deal Con drain damage (which requires Restoration to be healed and which most probably is not available in the field to a 4th lvl party). Sure, they don't have to fight all the monsters but they will most definitely have to fight at least one before facing Brother Swarm, who, most definitely, will be at the company of a wraith spawn (or even two in the cases of Maarten-Karin or Allen-Ellsa - ouch, ok, this would be *mean*).

So, how did you people deal with the above situations?

Thanks a lot for your insight!

[Voomer]

Good points, and I don't have a ready answer. It is worth considering that this is in a category of "making sense" that isn't an area that the PCs are likely to think about. I absolutely want things to "make sense" where it is likely the PCs will puzzle over them. But do the PCs find out enough of that backstory such that it is likely they will be thinking about these things? Or is this just GM backstory? I don't think so, but it has been awhile since I read that portion and we haven't gotten to ToTB yet.

[Marios]

Well, they may stumble on those details or they may not. This is a children murders investigation so they will most probably require as many details from the witnesses as possible. Furthermore, the ability of the wraiths to function during a sunless day or not may prove quite relevant.

Last but by no means least, it has to "make sense" for *me*. If it doens't...well, it doesn't *feel* right. I rule what my players are able to do and how, so I also accept the same from them, in the sense that should they require after-game explanations (for whatever reason), I should be able to provide them.

[Voomer]

Yeah, I stand corrected. Especially since the module contemplates the possibility of Speak With Dead, so really inquiring PCs could get into the details of how it all happened.

"Sunlight powerlessness" means that "a wraith caught in sunlight cannot attack and is staggered." Staggered just limits the actions to one move or one standard. So it makes sense that, on a very overcast winter day, the spawn could have wandered down to the village and lured the children back, and Brother Swarm could attack from the darkness in or near his lair. I guess you'd want to include the weather details in giving the description to the PCs (maybe the events all occurred during a single, particularly gloomy week).

Thanks for spotting this issue!

[Helaman]

Kids could have stumbled on the cave where he is hiding for the first death or two... with more ghosts at his command he can then lure more kids with voices etc... a wraith could make a free action to call a name... next round? move and call again... until out of sunlight and then whammo.

[Marios]

Helaman wrote:

Kids could have stumbled on the cave where he is hiding for the first death or two... with more ghosts at his command he can then lure more kids with voices etc... a wraith could make a free action to call a name... next round? move and call again... until out of sunlight and then whammo.

Yes, I see it now... it seems I misunderstood the wraith's and spawn's "sunlight powerlessness". I thought it prevented the monster from being active during daylight, while the correct explanation is that it cannot attack and is limited to a single move or standard action.

So, as you describe above, a wraith spawn could easily lure a kid towards some shadows near its house where Brother Swarm would be waiting...

Thanks a lot people!

[MurphysParadox]

Does the cave have a 'Free Candy' sign out front? Maybe a sweet airbrushed picture of a wizard riding a dragon-tiger? Or whatever would be the equivalent in a fantasy realm (dude with mullet and chops riding a motorcycle perhaps?)

[King of Vrock]

The wraith spawn lured the children to Brother Swarm's lair BEFORE the adventure happens. It doesn't matter how they did it in the past, only that they did. Where the spawn are for the sake of the PCs encountering them is a whole different ball of string. One has nothing to do with the other.

The backstory is really only for the GM to know if and when the PCs use speak with dead on the remains of the children. Otherwise its not relevant to the encounter.

Personally I think there are too many of the same encounters in Hergstag. I'd highly recommend replacing the wraith spawn of the children properly buried in the graveyard with Haunts of the same CR.

--Vrocky Horror

[Pan]

Yeah I am noticing a lot of things that dont make complete sense in Carrion Crown. However I wouldn't sweat over details like this. The PCs dont need to know the Wriath spawn are stuck within a 150 ft zone around their homes. If they start asking questions just let them know a few things off of knowledge rolls. Other things just remain a mystery this is a horror story.

Some Con Drain was inevitable. The party forked over some gold back in Lepistadt for a cleric to remove it. They had some left over goodies from Harrowstone to use on undead. I was worried about to be honest but my players like gloves off style of play. You could always change up the wraith childeren or take away the drain ability.

Pretty much what Vrock is sayin'

[Helaman]

A combo of haunts and Wraiths wouldn't be bad... I've been told this was pretty rinse and repeat boring... and one of the solutions, Short term, is to burn down the houses the kiddies are hiding in letting sunlight in... unfortunately they turn into grown up's if they deal with Brother Swarm without thinking of the consequences.

Prehaps also allow for alternative ways of combatting the kiddies similar to dealing with Haunts (blessing graves etc) may be more exciting than combat... or change the consquences so that IF the players do a) to help the kiddies then they are freed when Brother Swarm buys it... or maybe even allow for the players to have the kiddies join forces with the players - albeit temporarily and prehaps ending in forced treachery, to help the players in locating Brother Swarm... who CAN be very VERY bad ass.

[Windspirit]

King of Vrock wrote:

Personally I think there are too many of the same encounters in Hergstag. I'd highly recommend replacing the wraith spawn of the children properly buried in the graveyard with Haunts of the same CR.

Yeah same ..BUT the point is trying to make it TACTICALY different. I used the following approach:

Gaard: Cheat a bit and have him attack the PC's on the Bridge. making for less movemnt possiblity for the characters

Allen and Ellsa: use them to lure the PC's in Beartraps. My fall for the first one and then been VERY carefull in tryingto avoid the same mistake with the second.

Rachel: she is in the church. Let her be there and when the PC's engaged her...let Brother Swarm come into their back (could be a bit of massive fight)...but LET him run by 1/2 hp so the PC's see where he is going.

Karin: Use Floors and Walls to move her around the house and have her attak the PC's on their flank or the back. (see my Campina log for details)

Maarten: This one is quite nice as tehy PC's are DEEP into water and cant move that much, making for an interesting fight.

[Helaman]

Nice one... you updated your TotB log?

Edit: Just redownloaded it - is there a post where you go into more detail on this?

[Voomer]

Interesting suggestions. I'll keep them in mind when the party gets there. And a link to the log would be great too!

[Windspirit]

:) right
TotB Campain log