I really like this conversion. I had actualy worked with Cartmanbeck on a witch archetype for the Warlock which was posted on d20pfsrd, but I really like this one as well. Makes it a class in it's own right, keeps some of the unlimited use ability (though this might outshine some other classes a little such as the alchemist with his bombs), and adds versatility in the shape of limited spellcasting (which greatly reduces the abuse of abilities like invisibility, black tentacles, etc).
I wonder if you couldn't post this on the d20pfsrd for easier access in case this post gets buried in the future? Of course, I'm not sure what it might take to get something posted on that site.
I love this class, a lot. But I have one fear about it; won't it be quite overpowered in the late game, considering most creatures at that stage get the majority of their armour class from natural armour? as eldritch blast is a ranged touch attack
Hello All,
I love this conversion and have been having fun with it for the past 6 months....
However, i could use some clarification about an invocation.
Eldritch Doom (Su)
: The warlock invokes his
eldritch blast in a 20 foot radius spread with a range of 60 feet that affects all creatures within the area. No attack roll is needed for this
invocation, but all targets in the area of effect are allowed a Reflex save for one/half damage.
What exactly does 20 foot radius spread with a range of 60 feet mean?
Is that 20ft radius and up to 60ft high? or what?
To me, this is confusing. it makes it seems as though the 20ft radius is ignored by the 60ft range...
You pick where you want the 20-ft radial spread to take effect, but only up to 60 feet away.
You pick where you want the 20-ft radial spread to take effect, but only up to 60 feet away.
Thank you... that makes a lot more sense.
No problem. :)
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I have a suggestion for a spell to add.
BURNING GAZE
School evocation [fire]; Level druid 2, sorcerer/wizard 2, witch 2,
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S, M/DF (eye of a mundane salamander)
Range personal
Target you
Duration 1 round/level
Saving Throw Fortitude negates (see text); Spell Resistance yes
Your eyes burn like hot coals, allowing you to set objects or foes alight with a glance.
As a standard action as long as this spell's effects persist, you may direct your burning gaze against a single creature or object within 30 feet of your location. Targeted creatures must succeed at a Fortitude save or take 1d6 points of fire damage. Unattended objects do not get a save. Creatures damaged by the spell must make a Reflex save or catch fire. Each round, burning creatures may attempt a Reflex save to quench the flames; failure results in another 1d6 points of fire damage. Flammable items worn by a creature must also save or take the same damage as the creature. If a creature or object is already on fire, it suffers no additional effects from burning gaze.
Note that this spell does not grant an actual gaze attack—foes and allies are not in danger of catching on fire simply by meeting your gaze.
I do acknowledge that players can add this spell eventually with Eldritch Knowledge, but this looks like a spell that a warlock should be able to use normally.
Thoughts?
It is a good spell, Zolnax and very thematic. However, I am leery about adding too many spells to the Warlock's list. And, as you have said, it is already available for selection via Eldritch Knowledge.
MA
Glad I'm not the one necro'ing this thread.
Why isn't there an Eldritch Glaive or similar invocation? I can guess(warlock dip for it, then rest of your levels in eventually pouncing-with-touch-Attacks barbarian).
Glad I'm not the one necro'ing this thread.
Why isn't there an Eldritch Glaive or similar invocation? I can guess(warlock dip for it, then rest of your levels in eventually pouncing-with-touch-Attacks barbarian).
I've never cared for Eldritch Glaive. We already had Hideous Blow (although it didn't really work too well at the time)and the ability to make multiple melee attacks with an Eldritch Blast (as with Eldritch Glaive) always felt . . . cheesy.
At least to me. Some people loved that invocation; in fact a number of people that I knew considered it a must have invocation. Being as these were my "power" players (i.e., those who just have to optimize every character they play to the max), I very quickly nixed the invocation.
MA
It is a good spell, Zolnax and very thematic. However, I am leery about adding too many spells to the Warlock's list. And, as you have said, it is already available for selection via Eldritch Knowledge.
MA
Thank you for your thoughts.
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Hey Master Arminas, I've been playing this conversion for about 6 months now and have gone from level 3-13 (current) after getting stuck in the Astral Plane because of a dimension door mishap I have decided (with the DMs blessing) to retool my character a bit.
We made a couple of changes to the class namely that there are once again Shapes and Essences which CAN be combined, so I can Eldritch Cone for damage and nausea. Also I have DR/- = 1/3 class level.
As a whole the class works great but it was pretty overpowered with me throwing 6 great axes via telekinesis while my familiar was lazerbeaming folks with Eldritch Blast. I have decided to get rid of the familiar for balance reasons (doubling damage sometimes rubs other players the wrong way) and replace it with a stronger focus in melee. I have hideous blow, but I find it pretty lacking.
I am leery about adding in eldritch glaive but I do want some sort of upgrade from hideous blow. Any melee suggestions? Maybe an Improved Hideous Blow feat?
Hi, London Duke!
Yes, I've seen the same problems crop up, which is why I am considering changing Eldritch Hands so that the Warlock can manipulate only a single object at a time (regardless of level).
MA
Saying thank you seems too little for the work you have done here, so I will simply bow and borrow this for my Pathfinder world as it was one of the classes I was saddened to not see converted over (second being the Scout, simple as it may be) to Pathfinder. I only made a cursory glance at it but with all the comments I see it seems to be well designed and balanced based on it's role within the party.
People often forget that if a class carries a stigma with it, you need to role-play that out in game for those that walk into places and announce "look at me, I'm an all powerful Warlock, fear me" every place they go.
In my world, most all arcane classes that do not use a spellbook carry a stigma with them as you can't take their power away from them - Bards receive the least stigma while Sorcerers and Witches (even if their power can be taken away) are actively hunted by a nation of human wizards.
Amazing work here and please, keep it up.
Thankyou very much - this is an interesting conversion, and I shall enjoy running with the idea.
That said, however, brace yourself. I have been told that I am a natural Devil's Advocate who can find fault with perfection. I am certainly a hard marker - even on myself - so please do not take offence. Overall, this strikes me as a fairly well balanced class. Specifically...
Eldritch Blast and Invocations - I am not enamoured of the change to a Supernatural Ability - I liked that my Warlocks were viable contenders in Arcane duels, and able to sympathise with many of the constraints endured by other arcanists rather than being so strange as to be unrecognisable as an arcanist. Yes, they now have a spell list, but they cannot really duel with it. I also dislike the basic blast being untyped arcane energy, therefore penetrating spell and energy resistances like so much smoke. However, not starting with an energy type has merit - why not make the default eldritch blast do bludgeoning, piercing or slashing damage - the blast manifesting itself as a physical force, unless flavoured with elemental energies? You could either set one of the three as the default for the class, or let the player choose (either at 1st level, or each time they shoot - your choice)
An interesting compromise to the Supernatural/ Spell-like Ability debate occurs to me, however. Make Eldritch Blast a Supernatural Ability (with all that implies) and the Invocations Spell-like Abilities. In this model, Eldritch Blast is a strange and instinctive ability that comes to Warlocks at the beginning of their career. Invocations are carefully learned manipulations of arcane energies that are carried by the Eldritch Blast. Warlocks could easily choose to penetrate spell resistance - provided they refrain from using any of the more impressive magical tricks they had learned. I would definitely suggest an Invocation that acts as a targeted dispel magic upon a target successfully hit (instead of damage? At least a Major Invocation either way) and one that allows the Warlock to do subdual damage. The party needs some way to capture difficult 'allies', after all.
I should add that, in my games, provoking attacks of opportunity twice was never an issue, as it was ruled that each action could only provoke once, no matter how many elements could trigger one - so a spell-like ability (or spell) that required a ranged touch attack roll was still only one standard action, and so only provoked once.
Complex and Utility Invocations - Regarding the debate on reviving/ combining essence and shape Invocations, it does make sense that the more complex tricks might need to be mastered independently - Boreal Spear is rather different to Boreal Blow. So, add some extra invocations that combine the effects of lower level invocations. Both the above examples combine 2 minor invocations, so would be Major invocations. Not all combinations would be valid, of course, but this would give Dungeon Masters a ready source of new invocations to explore. Players are welcome to suggest combinations, but theirs' is not the final say.
I do miss the Utility Invocations, however, and Eldritch Hands does little to make up for that. Apart from the name, it seems a poor fit for the class, as if it were only an afterthought. If we are keeping with the "Invocations are Supernatural Abilities" theme, then there is a ready source of Eldritch Supernatural Abilities emanating from unknown (and possibly unknowable) sources in canon - Witches' Hexes. I would not necessarily suggest replacing the invocations with hexes, but making Eldritch Hands a Major hex and giving the Warlock a partial Hex progression has possibilities.
Spell Progression Vs Utility Invocations - I will admit, I do not really have a problem with making the Warlock a spellcaster. If I found myself burdened with arcane magic, I would want to study it - and I would expect to pick up a few spells along the way. On the other hand, I do miss the utility invocation scheme - it had potential. For those players who cannot be bothered to master their spells, you could try replacing the spell progression with the Full Hex Progression from the Witch Class. This would give your Warlock a range of eldritch abilities to play with, without the bother of spells known and spells per day. I do miss the flavour of some of the old invocations, but aside from inventing new spells, I would like to remind everybody that only the mechanical effects of spells are fixed by the rules - your Warlock is free to tamper with the aesthetics of the spells to his heart's content - and that is where much of the Warlock's atmosphere can be found. Outside the sterile mechanics, in the details - which is why I never liked calling them Invocations. Invocations are polite requests, and that is the business of clerics, not warlocks.
Overall, I would like to see some Hexes added to the class, but I would still like to keep the spell progression. I am torn, although perhaps the Eldritch Knowledge feature should grant access to Hexes?
Class Features - Damage Reduction - Taken from the original, and still well balanced. Gives the Warlock a little extra stamina, provided he does not take many big hits.
Energy Resistance - Is Energy Resistance 30 really worth having? Especially so close to gaining immunity. I would be tempted to grant the Warlock resistance 0 to all four, and have the class feature increase any two of those by ten each time. So the warlock might end up with resistance 30 to two, or resistance twenty to two, and 10 to the others. Or just drop the level 17 option entirely.
Eldritch Hands - As mentioned, does not really feel properly integrated. Might be better to replace it with a flavour option - let the player choose a 'Conscious Pact' (the direction they are trying to draw their energies from) that can thereafter define them from a roleplaying perspective, with a minor mechanical boon as an extra.
Eldritch Resilience - Another strait lift, this is slightly more powerful due to the increased duration. Some people have suggested a Constitution-based ability, however, and this could fit - change the duration to Constitution score + Charisma modifier turns - the more arcane energy your mind and body can endure, the more healing you get.
Eldritch Aura - a minor defensive ability, but one I disliked on sight. I had visions of my colleagues being blasted for prodding me awake to take my watch. Also, I feel that Warlocks should be gaining more, not less, control over their arcane energies as they progress. As an alternative, either make it strike everything within 5 feet when used as a standard action (no save, does not provoke attacks of opportunity) allowing the Warlock to buy himself some breathing space in melee, or make it a magical 'full defence' option - Eldritch Aura allows the Warlock to channel his Eldritch Blast into a barrier that blocks attacks. It possesses temporary Hit Points equal to his Eldritch Blast damage (roll the dice normally) and if breached (reduced to 0 temporary hit points) it explodes (inflicts 1d8 damage on the attacker if in melee). Increase damage as in the extant Eldritch Aura. If not breached, it dissapates harmlessly at the start of the Warlock's next turn.
Eldritch Knowledge - I would definitely go along with starting the Eldritch Knowledge Progression at Fourth level, although a partial hex progression has its own merits. Once again, I am torn.
Empower Invocation - Does not seem really necessary, and does not strengthen the Warlock by much. I would expect to find the few blasts either horded and never used, or wasted far too soon.
Possibility - Partial Hex Progression - Remove Eldritch Hands, Eldritch Aura, and Empower Invocation, and replace with Hex - The Warlock gains 1 hex from the Witch's Hex list at 6th level, and one every three levels thereafter (9th, 12th, 15th, 18th), for a total of 5 at 18th level. Perhaps allow the 5th to be a major Hex. I am unsure as to how well this would balance - Perhaps removing Empower Invocation is a step too far?
Spellcasting - As I mentioned earlier, I think that a spellcasting Warlock is a good idea, but also that it may have cost the class too much. I also think that the spell list is a little too narrow. I understand that it is meant to be narrow, and I understand why that is, but I also think that you may have gone a little too far. Also, the Eldritch Blast comes first, scaring the prospective Warlock into learning a little magic so as to regain some control over, and understanding of, their life. So why is the list so light on divinations and abjurations?
I also think that this is a prospective point for flavouring individual Warlocks, as opposed to the Warlock class - like the Witch patrons showing themselves primarily through a few extra spells known.
Also, more of a roleplaying point but, your description of all Warlocks being randomly empowered by unknowable forces struck me as a little odd, when previous iterations of Warlocks had been based around Pacts. True, those warlock might never discover the pact that empowered him, and some could be extremely one-sided (a passing fey took pity on a magicless human and 'corrected' the weakness, a clever scholar forged a pact with himself via a powerful {but mindless} force that charged the pact with arcane power), but I still think that the option should be there, for those so bold as to take it.
I realise that not all of these ideas are completely compatible, but these were the ideas your Warlocks evoked within me.
A final point, regarding archetypes. Your Warlock does not have any, nor is there any other class features designed to seperate Warlocks along seperate paths. With that in mind, and bearing in mind the above, allow me to present my own three - The Studious Warlock, the Wise Warlock and the Forceful Warlock:
The Studious Warlock:
The Studious Warlock is not content with his condition and power - he studies it inscessantly. The more he comes to understand about the arcane power boiling within him, the more he yearns to understand the rest. Each answer leads to three more questions.
Change the Studious Warlock's casting Stat. to INT, as the Studious Warlock's power grows with careful study.
The Studious Warlock begins play with a small Spellbook, containing the 4 cantrips he knows. He may add other cantrips he finds to this book using the same rules as a wizard, and may change his cantrips known to any in the book by studying it for 30 minutes after getting 8 hours rest. This replaces the invocation the Warlock gets at 1st level.
The Wise Warlock
The Wise Warlock also studies his condition, but does so in a more organic fashion. A Wise Warlock attempts to balance the demands placed upon his power by forging small pacts with multiple different sources. The forces supplying these pacts may be individually weak, but the Wise Warlock grows skilled at blending these powers within himself to form potent aids.
Change the Wise Warlock's Casting Stat. to WIS, as his power depends upon him instinctually balancing the conflicting energies within him.
The Wise Warlock gains the Witch's Hex class feature at 6th level, along with a single Hex from the Witch class. At 9th level, and every three levels there after, he gains another Hex. This replaces the Warlock's Eldritch Hands class feature.
At 18th Level, any time the Wise Warlock is eligible to gain a new Hex, he may learn a Major Hex in it's place. This replaces the Warlock's Eldritch Aura class feature.
The Wise Warlock's Arcane Apotheosis grants him an additional Hex, or Major Hex, in place of the 7th level spell.
The Forceful Warlock
The Forceful Warlock does not study his condition at all - he revels in it. He does not care for fiddling with spells and meddling with pacts - he is powerful, and he knows it. By sheer force of will, he forces magic to happen. If his range of tricks is limited, what of it? They are very effective at what the Forceful Warlock does...
The Forceful Warlock's Casting Stat remains CHA, as he relies upon his force of will to get magic done.
The Forceful Warlock learns one hex from the Witch Class at every even-numbered level. From 10th level, he may choose from the list of Major Hexes. From18th level, he may choose from the list of Grand Hexes. This replaces the Warlock's Spellcasting Class Feature - NOT the cantrip class feature.
When the Forceful Warlock gains a spell from his Eldritch Knowledge Class Feature or Arcane Apotheosis Class Feature, he gains a spell from the Warlock Spell List as a Spell Hex (as per the feat, but ignoring the feat's Spell Level restriction). He must choose these spells from the Warlock's Spell list, not the Witch and Sorcerer/Wizard Spell Lists.
That is what I have for now, Master Arminas. I hope I have not offended.
Carthienes.
Thankyou very much - this is an interesting conversion, and I shall enjoy running with the idea.
That said, however, brace yourself. I have been told that I am a natural Devil's Advocate who can find fault with perfection. I am certainly a hard marker - even on myself - so please do not take offence. Overall, this strikes me as a fairly well balanced class. Specifically.... . .
That is what I have for now, Master Arminas. I hope I have not offended.
Carthienes.
Certainly not, Carthienes. Sorry I've been away from this thread for so long, but work has been rather hectic. I am going to reply to your points, but it may be a few days. But I do not mind (in the least!) constructive criticisms.
I do hope that you enjoy the class.
Saying thank you seems too little for the work you have done here, so I will simply bow and borrow this for my Pathfinder world as it was one of the classes I was saddened to not see converted over (second being the Scout, simple as it may be) to Pathfinder. I only made a cursory glance at it but with all the comments I see it seems to be well designed and balanced based on it's role within the party.
People often forget that if a class carries a stigma with it, you need to role-play that out in game for those that walk into places and announce "look at me, I'm an all powerful Warlock, fear me" every place they go.
In my world, most all arcane classes that do not use a spellbook carry a stigma with them as you can't take their power away from them - Bards receive the least stigma while Sorcerers and Witches (even if their power can be taken away) are actively hunted by a nation of human wizards.
Amazing work here and please, keep it up.
You are most welcome, Wynter Ignatius. I get where you coming from with the 'stigma' of being a Warlock--and that is something I make sure MY players understand from the get-go. To be a Warlock means you aren't going to be trusted, you are liable to get knifed in a tavern, you are going to have people try and cheat you, steal from you, put you on trial (for crimes you haven't done!), and generally look upon you as an abomination.
BUT, I also let my players know that their actions can (slowly) change people's perceptions and bias over time.
Anyway, I'm glad that you enjoyed it and I hope that you have a good time playing the class.
MA
Now that the Kineticist is out (and up on d20PFSRD), do you think it will influence your Warlock at all?
Now that the Kineticist is out (and up on d20PFSRD), do you think it will influence your Warlock at all?
If nothing else, it will provide a ready source of invocations for players and DM's to adapt.
Personally, I think that the Kineticist cleaves closer to the mechanics of the original warlock, whilst that above warlock cleaves closer to the spirit of the original.
Except for the added mystique, that is.
I have been thinking about introducing the Warlock class into my home-brew PF world and ran across your thread. I like what you have going on. Do you have a more up to date version?