*pity bump*
It looks as if you have the basic process down. As a note on point 9, though, you can only sell a potion for half of its market price. The crafting and selling of magical items isn't supposed to allow players to make a profit.
Swift alchemy This ability does not apply; potions are not considered alchemical items.
Instant alchemy This ability does not apply for the same reason as above.
Master Alchemist This feat only effects the crafting of mundane alchemical items. Once again, it does not apply when crafting potions.
Expensive potions take 1 day to create for every 1000gp in its base price, which is its market price.
the whole item creation sections are a complete mix of dos and dont's and would like some clarification. I have been searching for a couple weeks now and have not found a definitive how to thats not referencing a whole new section to calculate all this.
Hey there, lets see if we can help you out!
B.How do you calculate if the potion takes more then the 2 hours? normal crafting alchemy item doesn't make sense for me for creating potions, i understand its based on how much the price of it is, but is that the market price or material cost costing more then 250gp? or material cost? and how do you factor this based on the 2 hrs or day?
The 250 gp threshold is based on the Market Price and not the Crafting Price.
C. How does Swift alch/ Instant alch/Master Alchemist work in to this after you gain these feats
Potions are Magic items, you can only create one magic item per day. period. regardless of the the time it takes.
Swift/Instant/Master alchemy only apply to Alchemical Items (tanglefoot bags, smokesticks, etc) and not Magic Items (potions).
This is what I have devised so far but would like some guidance on the right way to do this
Brewing Potions (not crafting alchemy items)
1.Only Formulas you know
2.1-3 Lvl Formulas
3.Formula must be prepared, using up one of your extract slots for the day
4.No Discoveries can be added5.Figure out brew price of potion
(cost of materials when brewing a potion).Potions: Base price = spell level × caster level × 25 gp.
The brewing price of a potion is equal to the level of the spell × the creator's caster level × 50 gp. If the potion has a material component cost, it is added to the base price and cost to create
6. Cost(step 5) x 10 = base brew price in Sp
7.DC of the Potion to create
10+Caster lvl of spell used= DC of Potion8.If step 5 is Less then 250gp then its takes 2 hrs to make potion. Otherwise brewing a potion takes 1 day for each 1,000 gp in its base price (step 5)
Check:
Roll Craft (Alchemy) Check
d20+Craft rank+modifiers = Check Roll
Check roll vs. DC of potion you...
I'll outline a new checklist for ya! One sec..
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Steps to Brew a Potion:
1. Must be a Spell (Formula) that you know or have access to being Cast (Partner Crafting is possible).
2. Must be a 1st, 2nd or 3rd level Spell (Formula)
3. You must use the spell or formula in the creation so the scroll/spellslot/formula use gets expended.
4. Discoveries don't apply to Brewing Potions.
5. The cost of Brewing a Potion is half of the Market Price of a Potion.
The Market Price is equal to the level of the spell × the creator's caster level × 50 gp.
The Brew Price is equal to the level of the spell × the creator's caster level × 25 gp.
The Brew (Creation) price is how much you need to spend on "materials" to create the potion. The creation price for magic items is always half of the Market Price.
6. The time it takes to brew a potion is one day per 1000gp in the Market Price. Potions with a Market Price of under 250gp take 2 hours to create. This process can be accelerated to 4 hours of work per 1,000 gp in the item's base price (or fraction thereof) by increasing the DC to create the item by +5.
7. You can only make one magic item a day.
8. After you pay the costs, you must make a Finishing Check. The check is to create a magic item is 5 + the caster level for the item. In the case of a Potion this is the caster level used to calculate the costs. If you succeed, the item is finished.
9. The potion is now worth the Market Price, but if you sell items to the Shop then they will only pay you half of what its worth or the cost you paid in creating it.
I think you were blending the Crafting Skill and the Magic Item Creation section of the rules. In the case of potions, only the Magic Item Creation section applies.
Hope that helps you out!
Forgot to mention the Skill used in the Finishing Check varies based on the Magic Item Creation Feat you are using.
Brew Potion uses Spellcraft or Craft (Alchemy).
Thank you, your all awesome.
This really shouldn't be so difficult, after so many years you would think it would be cut dry and simple.
No problem, pleasure to help.
Stynkk any chance could do the same for Craft Alch Items? Any clue how poisons are made? do I have to learn/buy a whole new formula list for those as well?
As far as I know, there is no formula list for Alchemical Items (including Poisons). While it is a little wonky, it is better to assume that by taking ranks in Craft (Alchemy) you become a Crafter of Alchemical Items and are able to Craft all alchemical Items.
If a character was a Weaponsmith (with Craft Weapon), would you demand they learn the schematic for how to build a Handaxe? The amount of sheer realism you want in your game is up to you, but the rules don't demand it.
Do masterwork artisan tools +2 and Portable alch +1 stack to = +3Craft (alchemy)?
No, the master work tools and the Portable Alchemist's Lab both confer Circumstance Bonuses. You can't stack bonuses of the same type. However, if you wanted +2 to Craft (Alchemy) Checks, I suggest you purchse an Alchemist's Lab (non portable, from the Core book), it gives +2 instead of +1, but weighs a lot.
gotta run to dinner, but should be up later today.
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Steps to Craft an Alchemical Item:
1. Find the Market Price of the item and divide it by 3. You must pay this much for "raw materials" to make the item.
2. Find the Craft DC of the item in question. The Craft DC for other Alchemical Items is listed either in the Craft Section of the Core book (for Core Alchemical Items), the Core Glossary (for Poisons) and in the Gear section: Special Substances Table of the APG (for APG Alchemical Items).
3. Convert the cost of the item from Gold Pieces into Silver Pieces (multiply by 10). This is the total number of "Crafting Points" you must achieve before the item is created.
Note: If you have the Master Alchemist Feat (APG) you do not need to convert the price to Silver Pieces, you need only use the Gold Pieces total. This makes calculations much easier and it effectively speeds your crafting of alchemical items by about 90%.
Armed with the information from steaps 1-3, you're now ready to start crafting.
4. To create an item you must make Make a Craft (insert skill here) Check vs the Craft DC. This check will represent one week of work on the item.
4a. Success: If you succeed in surpassing the DC, multiply the Craft Check Result by the Craft DC. Deduct the resulting number from the "Crafting Points" (The total Market Price in Silver Pieces - or Gold Pieces if you have the Master Alchemist Feat).
If the remaining "crafting points" are at 0 or lower you've created your item.
4b. Failure: If you fail a check you make no progress this week. If you fail the Craft DC by 5 or more, you ruin half the raw materials and have to pay half the original raw material cost again ("crafting costs").
4c. If you want to measure the progress you make by the day instead of per week, multiply the Craft Check Result by the Craft DC and divide the total by 7. That's how much progress you've made that day on your item. Subtract this number from the "Crafting Points" total as you would normally.
5. Alchemist Abilities and their effects:
Swift Alchemy: Allows you to work twice as fast as a standard person, so after you succeed in a craft check and multiply the results by the Craft DC, multiply the results by 2.
Instant Alchemy: Allows you to create alchemical items instantly as a Full Round action (and you have the materials). Pay 1/3 the Market Price for Materials and make a Craft (Alchemy) Check. If you succeed, the item is created, no other calculations necessary.
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Example: Crafting Giant Wasp Poison
1. Find the Market Price of the item (Giant Wasp Poison) and divide it by 3. You must pay this much for "raw materials" to make the item.
Giant Wasp Poison Market Price: 210g
Giant Wasp Poison Materials Cost: 70g
2. Find the Craft DC of the item in question. The Craft DC for other Alchemical Items is listed either in the Craft Section of the Core book (for Core Alchemical Items), the Core Glossary (for Poisons) and in the Gear section: Special Substances Table of the APG (for APG Alchemical Items).
Giant Wasp Poison Craft DC: 18
3. Convert the cost of the item from Gold Pieces into Silver Pieces (multiply by 10). This is the total number of "Crafting Points" you must achieve before the item is created.
Giant Wasp Poison "Crafting Points": 2100(sp)
Note: If you have the Master Alchemist Feat (APG) you do not need to convert the price to Silver Pieces, you need only use the Gold Pieces total. This makes calculations much easier and it effectively speeds your crafting of alchemical items by about 90%.
Giant Wasp Poison "Crafting Points" with Master Alchemist Feat: 210(g)
Armed with the information from steaps 1-3, you're now ready to start crafting.
4. To create an item you must make Make a Craft (insert skill here) Check vs the Craft DC. This check will represent one week of work on the item.
We'll use your Modifiers (+11) and assume a roll of a 10.
10 + 11 = 21. 21 is greater than our target of 18, this is a successful crafting session
4a. Success: If you succeed in surpassing the DC, multiply the Craft Check Result by the Craft DC. Deduct the resulting number from the "Crafting Points" (The total Market Price in Silver Pieces - or Gold Pieces if you have the Master Alchemist Feat).
Progress made for one week: 21 * 18 = 378 crafting points
Progress made for one day: (21 * 18)/7 = 54 crafting points
Without Master Alchmist, you'll take about 5 and a half weeks to create a single dose of Giant Wasp Poison. Your target is 2100 crafting points.
With Master Alchemist, the process will take 4 days. Your target is 210 crafting points. An additional benefit of the Master Alchemist feat is that you can create multiple doses of poison at one time without increasing the length of time you have to work on them. The additional doses you can make is equal to your Intelligence modifier.
5. Swift Alchemy:
With Swift Alchemy multiply your progress (either week or day) by 2 then subtract it from the crafting point total. You will be working twice as fast as a non-Alchemist.
Progress made for one week (with Swift Alchemy): (21 * 18)*2 = 756 crafting points
Progress made for one day (with Swift Alchemy): ((21 * 18)*2)/7 = 108 crafting points
Okay, your big issue is that you're confusing extracts and potions.
-A potion is a consumable magic item that duplicates a spell. It's made as a magic item, using the Brew Potion feat; check the Magic Item section of the core rulebook for details. For one thing, you don't technically need a formula book to make potions, though you will need to be able to cast the spell to make a potion of it, unless you want to take a -5 on the craft check.
-An extract is a special alchemist potion. It doesn't duplicate a spell; it IS a spell. Unlike potions, which are magic items, extracts are basically spells in potion form, made by the alchemist each day. While the wizard and magus study their spellbooks, the alchemist breaks out his kit and formula book and mixes up his extracts for the day. Using extracts is just like drinking a potion (standard action, provokes AoO, but no verbal or somatic components), but it is not a potion. Also, only the alchemist can use his extracts unless you have the Infusion discovery.
Crafting poisons and potions involves making alchemical items and magic items, respectively. Making alchemist extracts involves spell preparation.
An alchemist makes extracts every day; that's just how they prepare their spells. Making potions and alchemical items/poisons is a little more unique.
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In addition, you cannot create potions, spell-trigger, or spell-completion magic items without meeting their spell prerequisites.
So you can't increase the DC of crafting the potion by 5 and make it if you don't have access to the spell somehow.
The crafter or another character need to have it memorized or he need to have another source of the spell, like a wand or scroll, and he need to spend a charger every day he is crafting the potion. If he is crafting multiple potions in a day he need to use a charge for each potion.
Quick note: circumstance bonuses stack (as do dodge and race bonuses) unless they arise from basically the same circumstance.
Quick note: circumstance bonuses stack (as do dodge and race bonuses) unless they arise from basically the same circumstance.I got you on dodge, but I am not sure you are correct on the others.
He's right about the bonuses.
The crafter or another character need to have it memorized or he need to have another source of the spell, like a wand or scroll, and he need to spend a charger every day he is crafting the potion. If he is crafting multiple potions in a day he need to use a charge for each potion.
You can only create a single magic item per day.
Okay, your big issue is that you're confusing extracts and potions.
???
I like your breakdown of crafting Stynkk, I calculated this all out once before, showed it to my GM and he still thought I was wrong when I told him it took something like a year of dedicated work (making nothing else) to forge a mithril chain shirt.
I'll have to show him the Wasp example as further proof.
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The crafter or another character need to have it memorized or he need to have another source of the spell, like a wand or scroll, and he need to spend a charger every day he is crafting the potion. If he is crafting multiple potions in a day he need to use a charge for each potion.You can only create a single magic item per day.
You mixed the citations.
Creating an item requires 8 hours of work per 1,000 gp in the item's base price (or fraction thereof), with a minimum of at least 8 hours. Potions and scrolls are an exception to this rule; they can take as little as 2 hours to create (if their base price is 250 gp or less).
...
A character can work on only one item at a time. If a character starts work on a new item, all materials used on the under-construction item are wasted.
1) You can craft a potion or scroll in 2 hours.
2) After finishing it you can still craft that day as you can work up to 8 hours, so potentially you can craft 4 scrolls and/or potions in a day.
I like your breakdown of crafting Stynkk, I calculated this all out once before, showed it to my GM and he still thought I was wrong when I told him it took something like a year of dedicated work (making nothing else) to forge a mithril chain shirt.
I'll have to show him the Wasp example as further proof.
Thanks! Yes, creating something like a Mithril Shirt is actually quite time consuming if you go strictly by the rules because the cost in silver pieces is like 50000 (that's a lot of "crafting points").
You mixed the citations.
Creating an item requires 8 hours of work per 1,000 gp in the item's base price (or fraction thereof), with a minimum of at least 8 hours. Potions and scrolls are an exception to this rule; they can take as little as 2 hours to create (if their base price is 250 gp or less).
...
A character can work on only one item at a time. If a character starts work on a new item, all materials used on the under-construction item are wasted.
1) You can craft a potion or scroll in 2 hours.
2) After finishing it you can still craft that day as you can work up to 8 hours, so potentially you can craft 4 scrolls and/or potions in a day.
Diego! I appreciate when you add to my threads (or threads I'm involved in), thanks! But, I think we're looking at different parts of the citation.
The creator also needs a fairly quiet, comfortable, and well-lit place in which to work. Any place suitable for preparing spells is suitable for making items. Creating an item requires 8 hours of work per 1,000 gp in the item's base price (or fraction thereof), with a minimum of at least 8 hours. Potions and scrolls are an exception to this rule; they can take as little as 2 hours to create (if their base price is 250 gp or less). Scrolls and potions whose base price is more than 250 gp, but less than 1,000 gp, take 8 hours to create, just like any other magic item. The character must spend the gold at the beginning of the construction process. Regardless of the time needed for construction, a caster can create no more than one magic item per day.
I think that's right anyway, I'd like for my characters to be able to craft more. So, I'm on your side, but the text is giving me issues.
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You are right.
It come after the potions/scroll exception, so it apply to it.
I think I will keep my way in my games as it give a little edge to the potions.
As someone pointed out in JJ thread, RAW you could make a one shot wondrous item that work exactly as a potion (included being imbibed), making Brew potions a very weak feat.
Now the corner case:
You are making a scroll with several spells (you, I checked :D).
It count as one magic items, so you can make 1.000 gp of progress each day or you count each spell as a different items, even if they are on the same piece of paper?
Unfortunately, no. Pathfinder nipped every method of making more than one item in a day, in the bud.
Scribing a scroll requires 1 day per 1,000 gp of the base price. Although an individual scroll might contain more than one spell, each spell must be scribed as a separate effort, meaning that no more than 1 spell can be scribed in a day.
With the people I play with (or at least myself and the other GM), we decided potions and scrolls are the exception. You can make more than one potion, or scroll, as long as you don't go over the 1,000 gp limit. In addition, they don't count when crafting other items. At the same time, we decided people could craft multiple items at once, but no more than 16 hours of work in one day (essentially, a day dedicated to nothing but crafting).
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I would not allow 16 hours of magic item crafting (at least not as a routine option). It is delicate work that require a lot of concentration. 16 hours are a lot of time.
Remember that there is already the option to work at double speed increasing the DC by 5.
AFAIK you can already craft 2.000 gp of items in a day that way.
Pushing it at 4K seem a bit excessive.
As something done in a emergency, with the characters pushing for maximum speed and concentration checks and increased DC it would be a different matter.
The characters are exceptional individuals and they should have a chance to try exceptional solutions. The important thing is that the exception should not become routine.
I simply summed up our houserule in a nut shell. I mentioned that 16 hours is the maximum allowed crafting, but that's typically only allowed if the crafter has a Ring of Sustenance (as he lives a 22 hour day, while everyone else has a 16 hour day), is in a safe and secure environment, with assistants and plentiful supplies, with no intention or possibility of interruptions.
But what it largely comes down to, is the caster (say a wizard for example) is sitting in his lab and spends 8 hours brewing a couple of potions and scribing a few scrolls, then he spends another 8 hours (if possible) working on that Wand he's been needing.
It a normal day, he may spend only 2 hours scribing/brewing, and 8 hours crafting (which is what we typically do). We tried to look at it from a realistic point of view. If the guy running Magi-Mart was working on a staff for a customer, and another customer came in wanting a scroll that he hadn't made yet, he would have to turn that customer away. Why? Because, per RAW, if that Crafter scribed a scroll, all the work on that staff would be wasted and he would have to start over again.
With this system, we can realistically scribe and craft at the same time. But that's our own house rules. It operates largely on the honor system, and if the people you play with can't be trusted with the honor system, would you really trust them to play at all?