RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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I know that PFS isn't going to be filled with optimized bad guys. I know that, especially at lower levels, not ever single encountered baddie is going to have magical equipment. But the fights that are suppose to be tough and optimized to fight PCs aren't. The bad guys for the last handful of mods that we've run have difficulty hitting 1-2 members of our party, if not all of them. I don't want every single fight killing a PC, but some challenge would be nice.
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I know that PFS isn't going to be filled with optimized bad guys. I know that, especially at lower levels, not ever single encountered baddie is going to have magical equipment. But the fights that are suppose to be tough and optimized to fight PCs aren't. The bad guys for the last handful of mods that we've run have difficulty hitting 1-2 members of our party, if not all of them. I don't want every single fight killing a PC, but some challenge would be nice.
And as a side note, we complained about the auto-damage from the last mod we ran because we couldn't search for traps. We tried several times, but the gm said the traps are unavoidable and we can't search for them or disarm them. We just get hit by them.
Yes, the bad guys do have a hard time hitting you guys. You fairly well built, at least somewhat optimized decently rounded party of guys. If it was just a party full of Bards with low AC, or a bunch of kids who might have not built their characters as well, or new people who have experience and so are playing pregens (which arent particularly optimized), then it might be a different story. PFS has to take into account every possible combination of parties. Hence, they generally err on the side of taking it easy, so as not to kill a bunch of people cause they assumed you know how to design an awesome PC/party, lol.
Im not saying I dont wish they were a little more challenging sometimes, cause I do. Having a bunch of bad guys that have +3 to hit is kinda annoying. Not that I particularly want to kill you every session, but it would be nice to be able to hit somebody sometime ever. :P
As for the traps thing, that sounds like the GM just didnt know how to handle the situation. I apologize for the mistake and will make sure he knows that you should have gotten the chance to search for the traps.
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I know that PFS isn't going to be filled with optimized bad guys. I know that, especially at lower levels, not ever single encountered baddie is going to have magical equipment. But the fights that are suppose to be tough and optimized to fight PCs aren't. The bad guys for the last handful of mods that we've run have difficulty hitting 1-2 members of our party, if not all of them. I don't want every single fight killing a PC, but some challenge would be nice.
And as a side note, we complained about the auto-damage from the last mod we ran because we couldn't search for traps. We tried several times, but the gm said the traps are unavoidable and we can't search for them or disarm them. We just get hit by them.
Maybe you should optimize less, rather than complain more about wimpy scenarios.
There are whole discussion threads about what you can do to make the scenario more challenging, like not having a primary stat over 16 (after racials), or doing other min/max or high optimization choices.
BTW, isn't a character using a shield without penalty and without having spent the feat for it running into the munchkin cheese factory?
Let's see, uber-optimized Barbarian going against your 25 AC at 4th level:
Full BAB: +4
Str 21, 25 when Raging: +7 (18 Str, +2 racial, +1 at 4th)
Weapon Focus: +1
Masterwork weapon: +1
Potion of Bear's Strength: +2
Total to-hit: +15. Huh. Whaddayaknow, 55% chance to hit.
Add flanking: +2 (Always flank, when you can) and it gets even nastier for your AC 25. That Barbarian BBEG is also using a two-handed weapon, so 2d6+13, -2 to hit for +6 more damage, so 20 or 26 points of damage per hit. Rogue mentioned probably has about 23 or 27 hit points....
Playing my 9th level PC DOWN in a 5-9 scenario, The BBEG rolled a 4 to confirm a crit, and only missed the confirmation on my PC, with a 25 AC, by 1. So, AC 25 is not the be-all and end-all, really.
And, at some point, to keep your AC up with the level requirements (20+APL is about what you need, maybe more, to remain in the unhittable category), you are not going to be picking up all that much ELSE besides AC boosters that cost significantly more for each step.
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I would like to note that the particular scenario we've been referencing doesn't actually have a vote link. I think someone disabled because they knew there'd be a bunch of 0 votes for it otherwise :P
Can you spoiler what scenario you are talking about? It could be a technical error that needs to be corrected.
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It's WAYYYYY too easy to maximize defense over offense, and even cheaper to do so.
And I am glad for it. With all the possible buff's that exist combined with high BAB classes, improving the rate of increasing attack modifiers, it would negatively affect the staying power of targets.
Also, considering that reducing the cost of magic weapons would allow enemies to gain them earlier as well, assuming the author is following the WBL curve to create appropriate challenges. That would mean that enemy warriors, would be even better at hitting the PC's.
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RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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Well, in my experience the enemies have been terrible at hitting the PC's.
Perhaps your experience is incomplete? I have a fighter with pretty high AC (it's the main thing he's known for locally), and I've faced the gamut from "needs a 20 to hit me" to "well, at least he doesn't need a 1 to miss like he does on everyone else", and everything in between.
BTW, isn't a character using a shield without penalty and without having spent the feat for it running into the munchkin cheese factory?
Callarek, that's part of what I've been complaining about. There's no reason to take the feat, because you can minimize the ACP with Darkwood. That's part of the problem. It's WAYYYYY too easy to maximize defense over offense, and even cheaper to do so.
Tarma, fortheloveofthegods, I beg you, quit complaining that defense is easier to acquire than offense! Dying is not fun, even if I'm playing a Necromancer.
At best, the argument does nothing to advance your assertion that "magic weapon costs are too expensive;" you're comparing apples to oranges.
At worst, SOMEONE MIGHT AGREE AND MAKE DEFENSES AS EXPENSIVE!
No, not likely, thank all of the gods and most of the major demons...
if you dont think PFS is tough enough, dont use easy power optimizing tricks like darkwood shields, etc. easy fix. PFS enemies just arent as optimized, so if you try and use every combo in the book like that, yeah it will be easy... the game system isnt broken, because NPCs can technically use that stuff too, but in a PFS context they don't actually do so... maybe try playing un optimized characters who just take core feats, use longswords or maces, dont mess around with darkwood,etc? like golf, in a game with players of different skill, 'handicap' can be a good thing foe the game. nobody is stopping you, who can obviously minmax characters beyond the standard PFS assumption, from balancing the playingfield yourself.
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Are people really calling masterwork and darkwood shields munchkin now? Ridiculous.Cheese, and only when using the rules to bypass having to take a required feat.
No feat? Should be a penalty, as the rules specify, but the combo reduces the penalty to nothing, so bypass the feat.
Meh. Your call.
There's a penalty for characters who don't have the feat or who don't take other measures to avoid said penalty. For example, darkwood and mithral. Just as I don't think it's 'cheese' for a player with a masterwork buckler to finesse with no penalty, I don't think it's 'cheese' for a player to use his armour check penalty-free shield without an armour check penalty.
This is stuff that is supposed to happen. As Michael Foster mentions, attack values increase much more rapidly than do AC bonuses, so the rogue should have his darkwood heavy shield, and the wizard should be expected to acquire a mithral buckler to increase that flat-footed AC.
Because if you give them "higher CMBs," (a) you break the system: CMB has a specific calculation for determination and (b) you REALLY screw the non-BAB focused classes; getting grappled as a mage is bad enough with the CMBs as they stand. For instance.
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I have done several level 5 scenarios
Careful what you wish for. Attack bonus is not always the only way an enemy can hurt you. Touch attacks and spells often don't care what armor you are wearing. You might want to try out the Heresy of Man trilogy, Sniper in the Deep, The Rebel's Ransom, even Jester's Fraud. They are among the most challenging scenarios and all 5-9.
Why can't enemies have more diverse tactics
To some extent, this is up to the GM to adjudicate. Some scripted tactics are not applicable unless the PC's act in the exact way anticipated by the author. The GM can often utilize terrain, lighting effects, etc to challenge the PC's without changing the gear/stat blocks of the enemies.
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RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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This is stuff that is supposed to happen. As Michael Foster mentions, attack values increase much more rapidly than do AC bonuses, so the rogue should have his darkwood heavy shield, and the wizard should be expected to acquire a mithral buckler to increase that flat-footed AC.
If this stuff is supposed to happen, why don't rogues (Ah-ha, spelled it right this time!) start with shield proficiency? Or gain the ability as they level up? I'm not saying that it's over powered, but it should have some sort of downside, otherwise there isn't a reason to take the feat. Upping the ACP to a total of 3 would fix the problem pretty easily, you can still take the darkwood shield, you just have some sort of penalty to hit.
There are drawbacks to nonproficient shield use besides the penalty to hit. For instance, that rogue who uses the darkwood heavy shield is giving up the chance to use TWF (which can really be a big deal, due to Sneak Attack) or to use a two-handed weapon.
He also can't take any shield-related feats (such as Improved Shield Bash) because they have proficiency as a prerequisite.
Nonproficient shield use is far from being a freebie.
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Tarma, I recall you had a lot of complaints when you first character died, about how the scenario was over powered. Since then, you have made a character that is highly focused on AC. Now your complaining that they're to easy.
The scenarios do get harder. The higher tiered scenarios can get really nasty.
The change from 1-5 or 1-7 to 5-9 or 7-11 is going from the minors to the majors. Just be careful for what you wish for.
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Tarma, I recall you had a lot of complaints when you first character died, about how the scenario was over powered. Since then, you have made a character that is highly focused on AC. Now your complaining that they're to easy.
The scenarios do get harder. The higher tiered scenarios can get really nasty.
The change from 1-5 or 1-7 to 5-9 or 7-11 is going from the minors to the majors. Just be careful for what you wish for.
That scenario is still somewhat complicated. I found out later that the GM running it was using damage values that were way off. That being said, there is still a problem with that scenario in that there isn't a way to counter a particular spell cast in the scenario.
There's a point in which a scenario can be challenging without being over bearing. I agree it's a fine line, but there's got to be something that can be done.
I keep hearing that the scenarios keep getting harder, but I'm not sure I buy it. For 2 weeks before a different scenario was run, all I kept hearing was how it was a tough scenario, and was responsible for at least one TPK along with a character death every time the scenario was run. So what happens? The scenario gets played, and no one even gets knocked unconscious. So I'm not really sure it actually gets that much harder :P
For someone of 4th level, right in the sub-tier, say that same Con-focused Barbarian, his 57 hit points will leave him unconscious and dying. Even Raging, he would be unconscious, since that only adds 8 hit points, and the slack he had was 11...
Consider the same attack hitting a Wizard with a dagger in hand; 34 points on a 4th level Wizard is gonna hurt. Even with a 14 Con, that Wizard only has 26 hit points...
Maybe your GM had really bad dice rolls? Maybe he was running the wrong version of Chalfon? Maybe someone had See Invisibility running, though it would take an effort, if I were the GM, for that not to be meta-gaming...
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I keep hearing that the scenarios keep getting harder, but I'm not sure I buy it. For 2 weeks before a different scenario was run, all I kept hearing was how it was a tough scenario, and was responsible for at least one TPK along with a character death every time the scenario was run. So what happens? The scenario gets played, and no one even gets knocked unconscious. So I'm not really sure it actually gets that much harder :P
1. What scenario are you even talking about?
2. Please dont take this as me being snarky, but you really dont know what you are talking about in this situation. You have only ever played in scenarios who's low end is either level 1 or level 3, as far as I know anyway.