Armor spikes deal extra piercing damage (see “spiked armor” on Table: Weapons) on a successful grapple attack. The spikes count as a martial weapon. If you are not proficient with them, you take a –4 penalty on grapple checks when you try to use them. You can also make a regular melee attack (or off-hand attack) with the spikes, and they count as a light weapon in this case. (You can't also make an attack with armor spikes if you have already made an attack with another off-hand weapon, and vice versa.) An enhancement bonus to a suit of armor does not improve the spikes' effectiveness, but the spikes can be made into magic weapons in their own right
This wording confuses me. Is it saying that if you make one attack with armor spikes, that you can't make a second, as per the Two-Weapon Fighting feat, given that your armor have enough coverage to allow for spikes around your gauntlet region?
If you have a longsword, and a shortsword, and armor spikes then you can only use 2 of the 3 weapons in one round.
Either the longsword or the shortsword can be the primary weapon, but once you use one as the primary weapon the other one defaults to being the off-hand weapon/attack. Once the other one is used the armor spikes can't be use. If the spike are used then which ever one that has not been used is shutdown.
The idea is to shutdown attacking with your armor spikes, a spiked shield, and every other off-hand weapon all in the same round.
In short they are saying you can't use the armor spikes with a 2nd off-hand weapon.
Well you can no longer use a large two-hander. And over all the small damage bonus from the off hand attack doesn't make up for the need to enchant two weapon.
Weapon Size
Every weapon has a size category. This designation indicates the size of the creature for which the weapon was designed.
A weapon's size category isn't the same as its size as an object. Instead, a weapon's size category is keyed to the size of the intended wielder. In general, a light weapon is an object two size categories smaller than the wielder, a one-handed weapon is an object one size category smaller than the wielder, and a two-handed weapon is an object of the same size category as the wielder.
Inappropriately Sized Weapons: A creature can't make optimum use of a weapon that isn't properly sized for it. A cumulative –2 penalty applies on attack rolls for each size category of difference between the size of its intended wielder and the size of its actual wielder. If the creature isn't proficient with the weapon, a –4 nonproficiency penalty also applies.
The measure of how much effort it takes to use a weapon (whether the weapon is designated as a light, one-handed, or two-handed weapon for a particular wielder) is altered by one step for each size category of difference between the wielder's size and the size of the creature for which the weapon was designed. For example, a Small creature would wield a Medium one-handed weapon as a two-handed weapon. If a weapon's designation would be changed to something other than light, one-handed, or two-handed by this alteration, the creature can't wield the weapon at all.
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Weapon Size
Every weapon has a size category. This designation indicates the size of the creature for which the weapon was designed.A weapon's size category isn't the same as its size as an object. Instead, a weapon's size category is keyed to the size of the intended wielder. In general, a light weapon is an object two size categories smaller than the wielder, a one-handed weapon is an object one size category smaller than the wielder, and a two-handed weapon is an object of the same size category as the wielder.
Inappropriately Sized Weapons: A creature can't make optimum use of a weapon that isn't properly sized for it. A cumulative –2 penalty applies on attack rolls for each size category of difference between the size of its intended wielder and the size of its actual wielder. If the creature isn't proficient with the weapon, a –4 nonproficiency penalty also applies.
The measure of how much effort it takes to use a weapon (whether the weapon is designated as a light, one-handed, or two-handed weapon for a particular wielder) is altered by one step for each size category of difference between the wielder's size and the size of the creature for which the weapon was designed. For example, a Small creature would wield a Medium one-handed weapon as a two-handed weapon. If a weapon's designation would be changed to something other than light, one-handed, or two-handed by this alteration, the creature can't wield the weapon at all.
ahh my fault, I know what you mean. I meant a 2 handed weapon not a large 2 handed weapon. Guess I was channelling a PC i had built. My bad, sorry for the mix up.
@Mergy - I don't always play optimal PC's as my PC to Module death count shows... lol
Oh then by all means go nuts with a greatsword and armor spikes or babazeau beard.
if your talking about the alchemist i don't think it allows you to take multi weapon fighting.
RAW you still can't do it even with Multiweapon fighting. I don't know if that is RAI or not though. I don't see how having an extra arm would get around the issue so I would say no as a GM.
In short they are saying you can't use the armor spikes with a 2nd off-hand weapon.No, what they are saying is that you cannot, without feats, get multiple extra attacks via TWF.
-James
That is not how I read it. Could you explain your position?