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I do like the big bang, but when I have one player who on average ( he rolled 8 big bangs and only rolled a max of four stats over 12 not a one being over 16) I will have to negate such things, as my friend rarely rolls decent stats with out the 4d6 reroll 1s and 2s. Its sad but a nessity
Critzible, did you catch the idea about dividing the dice among the players and having them roll one set together?
@Pax Veritas: Paizo typically uses the elite array for their NPCs (15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8). This is a specific 15-point buy. The point buy is before racial bonuses, aging modifiers, and the normal bonus points for levels/HD divisible by 4
@Aranna - that is without the +2 to stats, using my modified set of cards (4 sixes, 4 fives, 4 fours, 3 threes, 3 twos).
Incidentally, the absolute maximum and minimum results for that method are 29 point (18, 16, 14, 10, 9, 8) or (18, 16, 14, 9, 9, 9) and 16 point (13, 13, 13, 12, 12, 12). Both have less than 1% probability. I like the fact that the minimum is lackluster, but still playable. It is also the only set of scores that can be produced by this method which does not have at least one 14 or better. It does illustrate the difficulty in characterizing rolling methods by their equivalent point buys. That set of scores may be a 16 point buy, but it's actually quite a bit less powerful than what you could do with a 16-point buy. I'd rather have the elite array any day. Maybe that's a good option; let players choose to take the elite array if they are unhappy with their rolls.
Thanks Gordon the Whale. Yes I agree with allowing elite array if you are unhappy with your cards.
I have a personal shorthand for evaluating the value of a set of stats... I will share it in case it helps anyone out. The first number is the modifier of your highest stat after all mods. The second number is the average of your next three highest scores. This tells me at a glance the power level of the scores from the first number: a higher top modifier will have a much stronger effect on what he does. And lets me know how MAD the scores are by the second number. So for example take (18,16,14,10,9,8) add racial stat mods to the highest two stats and my shorthand looks like (5/14) Power Level 5 is very strong and with a MAD of 14 he could easily choose MAD classes without issue. The second set (13,13,13,12,12,12) done the same way looks like (2/13.3). 2 is a weak power level... but his MAD isn't bad. Elite array looks like (3/13.7) average power level and nice MAD. I threatened to do Zero Point Buy once to one of my optimizers and he laughed at me and said he would give me a character with (20,12,7,7,7,7) my shorthand was (5/8.7) Very Powerful but no hope of a successful MAD. I wanted to cry BTW. And that was about the time I gave up on Point Buy forever.
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I threatened to do Zero Point Buy once to one of my optimizers and he laughed at me and said he would give me a character with (20,12,7,7,7,7) my shorthand was (5/8.7) Very Powerful but no hope of a successful MAD. I wanted to cry BTW. And that was about the time I gave up on Point Buy forever.
You had someone who tried to pull that out on you? *ouch*
I keep looking at that, and I don't see how you can stand to run a character on those stats... he would pay dearly for even trying it with most of the folks I game with, because he's just opened himself up to too many glaring and unlikely holes. However, the one spot of "good" news is, it looks to me like he actually can't do it.
20 (18 + race mod) = 17 pts for the 18 base
12 (10 + race mod) = 0 pts
7 (9 - race mod, unless it's an Aasimar, in which case the 20 and the 12 are Wisdom and Charisma) = -1 pt (assume it is an Aasimar, that's still 7 = -4 pts.
3 x 7 for -4 pts each, total = -12 pts.
So.... if he's found a race that has +2 to two stats, and NO negative race mod, he's still spent 1 more point than he actually had. If he's any other race, he's 4 points in the hole. Not that I'd ever let someone build such a character in a game I was running... but it seems like one of your optimizers is not as good at math as he thinks he is. And even those points depend on someone actually letting him dump more than 1 or 2 stats. I believe most point buy rules already ban dumping a stat lower than 7.
Still, for someone to even break out that solution, is just ridiculous... I guess I can see why these guys were driving you nuts on point buys.