A generic base twenty levels racial paragon class. Just to see if it's possible, and what people think of the idea.
Here is what I got so far:
THE PARAGON
The paragon seeks advancement towards the ideals of his race, developing his innate abilities and talents. He is a shining example of his race, representing all of their best qualities.
Alignment: Any non-Evil
BAB: medium
Saves: All three good
1 Favored path; Alternate Racial Trait
2 Respected
3 Ancestral Power
4 Peak Condition
5 Alternate Racial Trait
6 Hero Point 1
7 Blessed
8 Ancestral Power
9 Peak Condition
10 Alternate Racial Trait
11 Hero Points 3
12 Exemplar
13 Ancestral Power
14 Peak Condition
15 Alternate Racial Trait
16 Hero Points 5
17 Legendary
18 Ancestral Power
19 Peak Condition
20 Capstone
These abilities are finished:
summoner’s eidolon every level.
Alternate racial trait(Ex): The character gains an alternate racial trait in addition to the normal traits gained at character creation. If the character has traded a core trait for an alternate racial trait he can use this ability to buy back that trait, if he chooses to. (AN: I wanted to continue this ability to 20th level, or even have it more times on the table but humans only have 4 alternate racial traits. Stupid humans).
Peak Condition(Ex): A paragon is always in peak phisical and mental condition. At 4th level and every five levels after he gains an ability score increase. This increase must be to one of the scores that gain a increase or decrease at character creation, for example, an elven paragon can choose to increase their dexterity, inteligence or constitution. Races that gain a +2 to one ability score of their choice can increase any attribute.
Respected(Ex): The character has an aura of confidence that makes people more trusting and respectful of him. He gains a +1 morale to Bluff, Diplomacy and Sense Motive checks. At 10th level this bonus increases to +2. This bonuses are doubled when the paragon deals with someone from his own race.
Blessed(Su): As the paragon raises in notoriety and power the very gods of his race start to take an interest in him. Spells that heal hitpoints heal an extra 50% when used on the Paragon. Natural healing heals twice as much hitpoints and he recovers two points of ability damage per night of rest.
These are the ones I'm still working on:
Hero Points: Another ability that needs a better name. The idea I'm rolling in my head is that the class would have a lesser version of the hero points from the APG, but that he regained at a rate of one per day. They would also serve as fuel for some of the racial powers.
Exemplar and Legendary are placeholder names. I still have no idea what I want from them.
Capstone. I really need a capstone.
I'm looking for any critic, review or idea you guys can give me.
To get a better idea of what you have in mind for the class, are you expecting the majority of Paragons to be devoted spellcasters, fighters, or more like rangers and paladins (melee or ranged with spellcasting to supplement)? Is there particular fighting style they will specialize in?
Will there be a spell list? If so, which spell list would it closely resemble?
Before making suggestions, I would like an idea of what direction you would like to take this class, and which role, in and out of combat, you think you can effectively fill.
Hmm, what is the hit dice size?
The idea for the class is similar to the Racial Levels in Monte Cooks Arcana Evolved.
Forgot some information on top, sorry :)
Hit dice is linked to BAB so D8.
Also, Skill points are six per level. I'm still tinkering with the Skills list.
Paragons are proficient with all simple and martial weapons, with al shields except tower shields and all types of armor.
Out of battle Paragons are supposed to be the party face, similar to Paladins, getting admiration from people just from being who they are.
In combat, it will depend a lot on your race. Each race will get a list of powers, for instance dwarves will get abilities that increase his ability with heavy armor and axes and a power that gives a very high SR for a coule minutes, while an elf will get powers that increase his skills with bows and finesse weapons, another similar to a ranger favored terrain and the ability to cast some arcane spells spontaneously.
The idea for the class is similar to the Racial Levels in Monte Cooks Arcana Evolved.
Forgot some information on top, sorry :)
Hit dice is linked to BAB so D8.
Also, Skill points are six per level. I'm still tinkering with the Skills list.
Paragons are proficient with all simple and martial weapons, with al shields except tower shields and all types of armor.Out of battle Paragons are supposed to be the party face, similar to Paladins, getting admiration from people just from being who they are.
In combat, it will depend a lot on your race. Each race will get a list of powers, for instance dwarves will get abilities that increase his ability with heavy armor and axes and a power that gives a very high SR for a coule minutes, while an elf will get powers that increase his skills with bows and finesse weapons, another similar to a ranger favored terrain and the ability to cast some arcane spells spontaneously.
With that kind of variability between races, it's going to be really hard to try to do anything without a gigantic list of options-probably bigger than the Summoner. (Dwarves being the party face? In a dwarven community maybe, but in elvish lands?)
The ability to go from "heavy armored" (dwarf) to "finesse fighter" (elf) to "Damage Brute" (probably half-orc) is going to be difficult with just one class. Fighter can manage because it's mostly a blank slate- the bulk of it is in the "feats" section, not its class description.
It's doable, but I would lean towards using a different chassis for different races. Full BAB/D10 hit dice, lots of proficiencies for Dwarves, with D8/medium and light armor for elves, with more skill points. There might be a lot of redundant material from race to race (perhaps a bonus to social rolls with members of their own race and your "hero points" idea), but enough would be conceptually different with the base classes to make it worthwhile. It would also cut down on the amount players would have to read- someone who's only interested in Dwarves or possibly Gnomes could just read those classes, instead of having to seek out their options in the middle of a 12 page list.
One class with 10 pages of stuff is better than 10 classes with 2 pages of stuff each. Part of my design philosophy. The idea is a blank slate chassis, with good skills, good saves, good proficiencies and medium BAB and HD. The extra Alternate Racial Traits (what a mouthful) help with the ide that the character is "evolving" as an ultimate version o his race, with the Ancestral Powers (that have nothing of ancestral, I really need a better name) making a fighting style that is the epithome of what the race is about.
I think it's my fault fornot putting up the Ancestral Powers lists, but they're far from complete. Here's the basic list of the elven paragon and the dwarven paragon (the ones I'm closer to finishing):
Elf
3- Natural Spirit: the elf gains a favored terrain. This is because elfs are usually depicted having a strong bond with nature, usually forests but you also have arctic elves and desert elves, etc.
8- Cultural Weapons: the paragon gains bonuses on BAB and damage when using bows or light swords. These are the weapons elves are usually depicted as using and are their trademark.
13- Arcane Mastery: The elven paragon can select X spells of up to Y level from the sorcerer/wizard list and use these spells as spell like abilities. He can also use a hero point to change the spells he knows or modify them with metemagic. In most settings elves are supposed to be some of the best masters of magic around.
18- Wisdom: ...WIP. No matter the setting elves are supposed to be one of the oldest races around and one of most long lived, losing only to dragons. Elves being wiser and more cultured than the other races is a trope since Tolkien first strated writing LotR.
Dwarf
3- Fighting Style: the dwarven paragon gains a number of bonuses to using the axe and when wearing heavy armor. The stereotypical dwarf is the one clad in heavy armor with a two handed axe as his weapon, it's their principal fighting style.
8- Racial enemy: the Dwarven paragon gains a favored enemy, between orcs, giants, elves and drow, or any other usual enemy for dwarves. In all settings dwarves always end up developing mortal grudges against another race, usually multiple ones. In PF you can see this on thei racial bonus to AC against giants.
13- ...WIP
18- Shrug Off Magic. The Dwarven Paragon can spend a hero point and gain SR equal to 20 + his level + his wis modifier for an X number of minutes. Dwarves are exceptionally resistant and distrustfull of magic, and dwarven wizards are rarer than half-orc bards.
One class with 10 pages of stuff is better than 10 classes with 2 pages of stuff each. Part of my design philosophy.
Ah. I would just warn you from my experience, that any more than 12-16 pages to a class is going to make many people hesitant to read it unless they are very interested in your sales pitch.
The idea is a blank slate chassis, with good skills, good saves, good proficiencies and medium BAB and HD.
That actually kind of narrows its theme down pretty well already- not a whole lot of other classes have so many good items at once (best fit I can think of is Ranger). The choice of good proficiencies and only medium BAB/HD is pretty unique as well. Not bad, mind you, just different.
The extra Alternate Racial Traits (what a mouthful) help with the idea that the character is "evolving" as an ultimate version of his race, with the Ancestral Powers (that have nothing of ancestral, I really need a better name) making a fighting style that is the epitome of what the race is about.
For future thoughts, I wonder if it might not be a good idea to start with fewer proficiencies and give automatic proficiency in the races' favored weaponry as part of their "ancestral style." Following the purpose of the class, they're not going to really be using much else anyway.
Having an axe and heavy armor while only having medium BAB and HD to make it work is a bit odd for the stout Dwarves, but works okay for the light and quick Elves. Halflings can probably make do with their throwing rocks and light blades, while gnomes... well, I don't know what the Gnomes are going to do. Are half-elves included in this as well? Pretty much every setting I've seen save one kind of gives them the shaft for cultural identity.
Elves seem to have the best deal so far. Bonuses to use worthwhile weapons, a favored terrain and all of the bonuses that implies, and spells off of one of the most versatile lists around to boot. They're also spell-like abilities, so no verbal, somatic, material or focus components needed, and no counter-spelling. And they can be customized to the occasion!
The dwarven ability to shrug off magic is both strong and a bit late. If their elven counterpart is reveling in magic, I would pair up the dwarven element to resist it then. If the SR is too strong at that level, then toning it down a bit and boosting the Paragon's saving throws might be the way to go. The Stalwart ability might fit for the dwarf, too.
One class with 10 pages of stuff is better than 10 classes with 2 pages of stuff each. Part of my design philosophy.Ah. I would just warn you from my experience, that any more than 12-16 pages to a class is going to make many people hesitant to read it unless they are very interested in your sales pitch.
That's exaggeration, man. Exaggeration. Hyperbole. It's a kind of joke, sheesh. A guy tries to be funny and gets stoned around here...
The idea is a blank slate chassis, with good skills, good saves, good proficiencies and medium BAB and HD.That actually kind of narrows its theme down pretty well already- not a whole lot of other classes have so many good items at once (best fit I can think of is Ranger). The choice of good proficiencies and only medium BAB/HD is pretty unique as well. Not bad, mind you, just different.
If it was similar to anything else I would've made an archetype or alternate class, not a base class.
The extra Alternate Racial Traits (what a mouthful) help with the idea that the character is "evolving" as an ultimate version of his race, with the Ancestral Powers (that have nothing of ancestral, I really need a better name) making a fighting style that is the epitome of what the race is about.
For future thoughts, I wonder if it might not be a good idea to start with fewer proficiencies and give automatic proficiency in the races' favored weaponry as part of their "ancestral style." Following the purpose of the class, they're not going to really be using much else anyway.
Having an axe and heavy armor while only having medium BAB and HD to make it work is a bit odd for the stout Dwarves, but works okay for the light and quick Elves. Halflings can probably make do with their throwing rocks and light blades, while gnomes... well, I don't know what the Gnomes are going to do. Are half-elves included in this as well? Pretty much every setting I've seen save one kind of gives them the shaft for cultural identity.
Elves seem to have the best deal so far. Bonuses to use worthwhile weapons, a favored terrain and all of the bonuses that implies, and spells off of one of the most versatile lists around to boot. They're also spell-like abilities, so no verbal, somatic, material or focus components needed, and no counter-spelling. And they can be customized to the occasion!
The dwarven ability to shrug off magic is both strong and a bit late. If their elven counterpart is reveling in magic, I would pair up the dwarven element to resist it then. If the SR is too strong at that level, then toning it down a bit and boosting the Paragon's saving throws might be the way to go. The Stalwart ability might fit for the dwarf, too.
Now this is what I need. Fewer proficiencies... I could see that, I'll give it a try on the next update.
The elfs list is the one I started first, for now that is the benchmark for the other lists. If it proves too powerfull I'll tone it down.Half-elves (and Half-orcs) will have their own ancestral powers. I think. I'll work on the other races first.
I'm not sure what the gnomes will get either, besides an illusion ability.
Making the Dwarfs ability to shrug magic earlier to pair with the Elfs magic... Okay I can try that.
Thanks for the ideas.
That's exaggeration, man. Exaggeration. Hyperbole. It's a kind of joke, sheesh. A guy tries to be funny and gets stoned around here...One class with 10 pages of stuff is better than 10 classes with 2 pages of stuff each. Part of my design philosophy.Ah. I would just warn you from my experience, that any more than 12-16 pages to a class is going to make many people hesitant to read it unless they are very interested in your sales pitch.
Stonin... er, dotting, I mean.
Question: How much "wiggle room" are you allowing on the "ideal member of the race"? Dwarves seem to be pretty locked down, but the Elves can choose any type of terrain. Elves can do finesse blades and longbow, but Dwarves get... axes (I'm not counting the armor, since Elves automatically get theirs anyway). Elves can swap out spell like abilities (I would strongly recommend just making these spells, since SLAs are so different), but dwarves get spell resistance, which doesn't even work on all magic, just SR: Yes (which some nasty Conjuration ignores).
I wonder if it also might not be worthwhile to consider a set of skills for each race that are automatically granted as class skills? Perhaps paring down the number of skill points, and adding a bonus in the style of Bardic Knowledge to the most iconic of them. This way you know that the iconic skills are very usable, and PCs who want to focus on them can reach levels worthy of the name "Paragon."
Suggestions:
Elves: Stealth, Survival, Perception, Knowledge: Nature
Dwarves: Craft (any two), Disable Device, Knowledge: (Engineerging/Nobility)
For most adventurers, this obviously starts favoring the elves again, so maybe it's not a great idea after all. But it's something to think about.
On the "Respected" bonus, it might be good to start it with only members of their own race, and then let half (rounded down) apply to other races. Mechanically it works mostly the same, but you can give them a small bonus at first and increase it gently over a larger number of levels if you want. It also seems more natural to me to focus on members of the paragon race first, and everyone else second.
Not sure about the increase in healing rate. Natural healing I don't have a problem with, especially for Dwarves or half-Orcs. But limiting the increase in healing to members of the racial deities, or giving a lesser bonus (maybe +1 caster level) to incoming spells from members of your own race might be good.
I do like the "miniature hero points" idea, and will be interested in seeing what you do with it. I've been kicking around the idea of retooling every class to use a "pool" mechanic like Ki Pool, Arcane Pool and Grit- "Guile" for rogues, "Valor" for fighters, and the like, so naturally I'm excited to see something similar.