Touch Spells

[mbauers]

I remember a rule about this in 3.5, but I'm unclear how it works in Pathfinder.

1) If I cast a touch spell as a standard action, can I make the touch attack as part of that action?

2) I believe in 3.5 you could actually cast the spell, then move up, then make the touch attack. Does that apply here?

3) If I am a witch with Prehensile Hair, can I stand 10ft away from someone and cast the spell, then make the touch attack with my hair (again as part of the action)?

Thanks

[Axl]

1. Yes
2. Yes
3. Yes. However the prehensile hair is a secondary attack, so I think that you would be at Base Attack minus five (plus Strength) to attack.

[mbauers]

Axl wrote:

1. Yes

2. Yes
3. Yes. However the prehensile hair is a secondary attack, so I think that you would be at Base Attack minus five (plus Strength) to attack.

Thanks, would you mind letting me know where you found that? I couldn't find it.

Re:3 It is a secondary attack, but when you only have one natural attack you get to use your full BAB. I have another rule thread about this in here from a week ago or so.

Next question--the Frostbite spell says you can make one attack per level. If I am level 1 and I make my attack and miss, is the charge wasted, or can I keep attacking until I hit?

[Axl]

Here

"Touch Spells in Combat: Many spells have a range of touch. To use these spells, you cast the spell and then touch the subject. In the same round that you cast the spell, you may also touch (or attempt to touch) as a free action. You may take your move before casting the spell, after touching the target, or between casting the spell and touching the target."

[Axl]

mbauers wrote:

Next question--the Frostbite spell says you can make one attack per level. If I am level 1 and I make my attack and miss, is the charge wasted, or can I keep attacking until I hit?

You made the attack. Regardless of the outcome, the charge has gone.

[Adamantine Dragon]

Axl wrote:

1. Yes

2. Yes
3. Yes. However the prehensile hair is a secondary attack, so I think that you would be at Base Attack minus five (plus Strength) to attack.

3 - this is in dispute. The wording of "secondary attack" itself says that if you only have ONE natural attack, it is performed at full BAB and uses 1.5x your str bonus. Since prehensile hair says you substitute int for str, that means the literal reading of the actual rule says that prehensile hair attacks are at full BAB and have 1.5x your int bonus.

EDIT: Unless, of course, you have another natural attack.

[Archaeik]

http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/combat.html#touch-spells-in-combat

Holding the Charge: If you don't discharge the spell in the round when you cast the spell, you can hold the charge indefinitely. You can continue to make touch attacks round after round. If you touch anything or anyone while holding a charge, even unintentionally, the spell discharges. If you cast another spell, the touch spell dissipates. You can touch one friend as a standard action or up to six friends as a full-round action. Alternatively, you may make a normal unarmed attack (or an attack with a natural weapon) while holding a charge. In this case, you aren't considered armed and you provoke attacks of opportunity as normal for the attack. If your unarmed attack or natural weapon attack normally doesn't provoke attacks of opportunity, neither does this attack. If the attack hits, you deal normal damage for your unarmed attack or natural weapon and the spell discharges. If the attack misses, you are still holding the charge.

If you miss (touch nothing), the spell does not discharge

[meatrace]

Axl wrote:

mbauers wrote:

Next question--the Frostbite spell says you can make one attack per level. If I am level 1 and I make my attack and miss, is the charge wasted, or can I keep attacking until I hit?

You made the attack. Regardless of the outcome, the charge has gone.

No, he can hold the charge.

[Mage Evolving]

mbauers wrote:

Next question--the Frostbite spell says you can make one attack per level. If I am level 1 and I make my attack and miss, is the charge wasted, or can I keep attacking until I hit?

That's the wonderful thing about touch spells you can keep swinging until you make contact. The downside is that often if you cast touch spells you are really squishy and you don't want to be close enough to actually touch the creature.

[james maissen]

mbauers wrote:

I remember a rule about this in 3.5, but I'm unclear how it works in Pathfinder.

1) If I cast a touch spell as a standard action, can I make the touch attack as part of that action?

2) I believe in 3.5 you could actually cast the spell, then move up, then make the touch attack. Does that apply here?

3) If I am a witch with Prehensile Hair, can I stand 10ft away from someone and cast the spell, then make the touch attack with my hair (again as part of the action)?

Thanks

1) Technically no, but just as good (if not better) as you can make the touch attack as a free action during that round.

2) Yes, see 1 (and the other responder's quoted passage)

3) If you have something that let's you touch at a larger than normal reach then you can do so. But again, not as PART of the action... but as a free action during that round.

-James

[Adamantine Dragon]

james maissen wrote:

3) If you have something that let's you touch at a larger than normal reach then you can do so. But again, not as PART of the action... but as a free action during that round.

-James

As I understand it with touch spells you have three options.

1. Cast the spell and touch the target in the same standard action. In this case the attack is a touch attack and the only effect is the spell effect.

2. Cast the spell and then MOVE and then attempt to touch the target in the same round. In this case the attack is a touch attack and the only effect is the spell attack.

3. Cast the spell and hold the charge until at least the next round. Then you can make either a touch attack, just as if you had just cast the spell, or you can make a natural weapon attack. If you make a natural weapon attack it goes against regular AC, not touch AC. If you succeed in touching the target with a touch AC attack the spell goes off. If you succeed in striking the target with a natural attack, then the natural attack does its normal damage AND the touch spell goes off.

For the prehensile hair attack you can do any of this at reach of ten feet. You can even cast the spell, hold it, and if you use your hair on an attack of opportunity and successfuly hit, the touch spell will go off.

[james maissen]

Adamantine Dragon wrote:

As I understand it with touch spells you have three options.

1. Cast the spell and touch the target in the same standard action.

Not quite.

It's not the SAME standard action, rather it is a FREE action during that round. When you make the touch attack your standard action has been completed. Likewise you can elect to take other actions (say a move) and perform your free action whenever you would like (it's a free action).

It's a minor quibble, but they are separate actions and when you fully accept that then it's easier to understand and there are fewer 'options' to convolute things.

-James

[Shlogan]

Does Casting the spell provoke an attack of opportunity? and can you charge with a touch attack and get the +2 bonus?

[Starglim]

Shlogan wrote:

Does Casting the spell provoke an attack of opportunity? and can you charge with a touch attack and get the +2 bonus?

1. Yes, but making the touch doesn't

2. Charge is a full-round action. If you already have a touch spell on your hand from a previous round, or if you cast as a swift action, this can work.