Non-caster creating scrolls, thoughts?

[Shawn S.]

Hello,

I did a search for this but couldn't get the key word combination to work out if this has been asked before.

So the Scribe Scroll feat requires 'Caster level 1' as a prerequisite, which I understand. However, I want to insert an NPC into my campaign that swindles people that don't know much about magic. He will have potions of Read Magic so he can read scrolls and other magical writings to "prove" he knows magic. He will have appropriate ranks in UMD and Spellcraft as well. However, I don't want him to be able to take any levels in a class that uses magic, he is a rogue with no formal training and just a con-man (and no bloodline that would give him innate magic). So my question has two parts:

1.) What is the "special something" that enables Scribe Scroll users to write magic which no one else can obtain? (Example: I can use UMD to emulate many, many things but I can't scribe a scroll?) And could somehow "steal" this knowledge from someone or some magic library/school?

2.) Are there any feats out there that give you the ability to scribe scrolls without a caster level? (In effect giving you that "special something").

If it ends up that he is a failed apprentice with just one level of wizard I can probably live with that, I just want to exercise the rules to see if there is a way. :)

Thanks ahead.

[Buri]

The way to pull this off is to give him some scrolls and say he has looked at the symbols and then the scrolls he creates are just mishmashes of the symbols he's seen elsewhere. The reason for this is that no two casters magical writing is the same. However, detect magic will be a dead give away. :)

I don't know why you're giving him spellcraft. That does nothing for writing scrolls.

Per your questions:

1) The special something to create a scroll is that when you create the scroll the spell associated with it is cast. Otherwise, it's just a piece of paper with weird writings on it.

2) No.

The "proper" way:

Quote:

To create a scroll, a character needs a supply of choice writing materials, the cost of which is subsumed in the cost for scribing the scroll: 12.5 gp × the level of the spell × the level of the caster.

All writing implements and materials used to scribe a scroll must be fresh and unused. A character must pay the full cost for scribing each spell scroll no matter how many times she previously has scribed the same spell.

The creator must have prepared the spell to be scribed (or must know the spell, in the case of a sorcerer or bard) and must provide any material component or focus the spell requires. A material component is consumed when she begins writing, but a focus is not. (A focus used in scribing a scroll can be reused.) The act of writing triggers the prepared spell, making it unavailable for casting until the character has rested and regained spells. (That is, that spell slot is expended from the caster's currently prepared spells, just as if it had been cast.)

Scribing a scroll requires 1 day per 1,000 gp of the base price. Although an individual scroll might contain more than one spell, each spell must be scribed as a separate effort, meaning that no more than 1 spell can be scribed in a day.

Item Creation Feat Required: Scribe Scroll.

Skill Used in Creation: Spellcraft, Craft (calligraphy), or Profession (scribe).

[Adamantine Dragon]

It is hard to rationalize someone who can't cast a spell being able to write a scroll which casts the spell.

However, there are ways to generate the same effect as some spells, as an alchemist, for example. But they can still only create things that replicate abilities they have.

Since a scroll is a means to store a spell for later use, I'd have to say that being able to cast the spell is required to write a scroll of the spell.

[Buri]

That's why I said he'd have to have some scrolls from other mages to work from. He would have no idea how to create convincing runes otherwise.

[Khrysaor]

A non caster cannot create any scrolls. They are spell completion items that require the creator to know the spell being scribed. True even of arcane trying to make divine scrolls.

That said, your rogue could try to do something like this with the Linguistics skill to make a forgery but even then detecting magic would reveal them as false. I don't know if read magic would also prove false, and anyone buying scrolls would have read magic handy so they can check out what they're buying.

Now if you were trying to swindle someone without any magic capabilities it's an opposed linguistics check to your linguistics forgery roll. If a player plans to use UMD for reading scrolls he would probably be buying them at a magic shop or from someone he thinks is a caster. There would be a lot of bluffing/sense motives going on before there was even a purchase.

Swindling your PCs is gonna make a lot of metagame headaches. You'll have to roll a bluff and tell them to roll a sense motive. If the bluff is successful they could meta that something is up and refuse to buy. If they're good gamers they'll go along with the bluff and continue thinking what they're told is true. Then out comes the scrolls and they glance over them. Linguistics vs Linguistics. If yours is better then they think it's a real scroll, otherwise they detect the forgery and you're blown.

[Shawn S.]

Thanks for the quick replies.

The reason I gave him Spellcraft is because I was confusing the Read Magic spell with Identify. I guess a potion of Read Magic is as much as someone needs to decipher a scroll. However the Spellcraft would allow him to identify magic items, but it makes more sense to take it away from him because he never trained in it.

@Adamantite: Sound reasoning and you are exactly correct because scrolls are spell-trigger items. I was making it a bit too complex.

@Khrysaor: I like the use of Linguistics and figured it would head that way so his Linguistics is solid.

As for the idea of a magic aura, that is easily solved by the rogue UMDing a scroll (oil?) of Magic Aura onto the fake scroll. Also, not every scroll salesman is going to allow a read magic to be cast on all of scrolls they sell, especially if they buy from people who go exploring. Read magic triggers cursed scrolls/scrolls with explosive runes. Shady dealers would just tell the buyers they found them in ancient runes and they purchase them at their own risk.

Also, I'm not trying swindle the PCs to a mean DM. This rogue is actually involved in some other activities in the story and this is one of the methods that the PCs take notice of them. Rumors start the he sales fake or "cursed" scrolls.

[Dexion1619]

How about giving him a wand of Magic Aura... He uses Linguistics to make a forgery of a scroll (Copies exactly what is writen on a real scroll), and hits it with a Magic Aura before the sale.

[Shawn S.]

Brilliant Dexion!

I love the evidence of his trickier as well. Plus it helps the PCs see how they can be duped (some of them are new to RPGing) fairly simply.

Thanks for the great idea!