Hey, all. Quick question for you: I'm running Curse of the Crimson Throne with Pathfinder rules. We just started and I'm not having any trouble with converting stuff for use during session, but I'm at a loss for experience awards. For the sake of easy bookkeeping, I'd like to just use the Pathfinder CR/EXP charts, based on the published CR of the creatures ... but which speed of level progression should I use to keep pace with the campaign?
The experience totals for the first adventure looks to be on par with Fast progression (compared to 3.5 experience and levels), but as the game progresses, the amount for each level starts to drop (vs 3.5) whereas the actual experience will be consistently higher. I don't want to switch midstream, because that'll just result in them feeling stuck at one level forever, but I don't want to go too fast or too slow, since that'll mess up the balance.
I see that a number of people have run this campaign in the new system, but I don't see any note of how people addressed this particular issue. Thoughts?
I was the GM on this AP and I used fast with Pathfinder's cr/exp in place. We leveled at the end of every session. It was very fast but the party enjoyed the flow. I did not run a lot of random encounters in order to avoid any possible leveling issues. If you expect to run heavy on random encounters especially when you get outside the city then I would use the medium progression. I'm using medium now for Legacy Of Fire since there is a lot of optional side quest content.
Throwing in Academy of Secrets module would be a could step forward if you wanted the party to end game at a higher level.
Medium gives you more control to where you can add a duplicate CR's if needed without having to adjust the stats of current creatures already in place.
The Fast advancement is basically equivalent to the 3.5 chart (13 encounters with CR=APL per level). I'm not sure what you mean by "the amount for each level starts to drop".
I was the GM on this AP and I used fast with Pathfinder's cr/exp in place. We leveled at the end of every session. It was very fast but the party enjoyed the flow. ...
Throwing in Academy of Secrets module would be a could step forward if you wanted the party to end game at a higher level.
I might try that, then. I've got three experienced gamers who have played almost everything BUT D&D, and two complete newbies, so I want to give people time at each level to get comfortable. But of course I don't want them to be underpowered.
The Fast advancement is basically equivalent to the 3.5 chart (13 encounters with CR=APL per level). I'm not sure what you mean by "the amount for each level starts to drop".
I mean exactly that. Levels 2 & 3, Pathfinder requires an extra 300 experience. Levels 4 & 5, the total experience is the same. At level 6, Pathfinder characters need 15,000, whereas 3.5 characters need 16,000, which is only 1,000 difference, no big deal. By level 20, though, it's Pf 2,400,000 to 3.5's 2,600,000, which is a difference of 200,000 experience. Basically, fast starts out a little slower than 3.5, but becomes faster by the end. My question was whether that evened out in practice, especially if I'm using Pathfinder CR->EXP charts instead of the ones from 3.5.
(In case someone wants to dispute those numbers, I'm looking at the D&D Wiki and the Pathfinder SRD.)
The Fast advancement is basically equivalent to the 3.5 chart (13 encounters with CR=APL per level). I'm not sure what you mean by "the amount for each level starts to drop".I mean exactly that. Levels 2 & 3, Pathfinder requires an extra 300 experience. Levels 4 & 5, the total experience is the same. At level 6, Pathfinder characters need 15,000, whereas 3.5 characters need 16,000, which is only 1,000 difference, no big deal. By level 20, though, it's Pf 2,400,000 to 3.5's 2,600,000, which is a difference of 200,000 experience. Basically, fast starts out a little slower than 3.5, but becomes faster by the end. My question was whether that evened out in practice, especially if I'm using Pathfinder CR->EXP charts instead of the ones from 3.5.
Ah, you didn't say anything about comparing with the variant XP system from Unearthed Arcana; that's what was confusing me. Note that the Pathfinder XP reward table is different from that UA variant reward table as well; for instance, in the UA system, a CR 12 monster is worth 19,000 xp, but in Pathfinder a CR 12 monster is worth 19,200. So it's a little hard to compare directly.
At any rate, the 200,000 experience point difference at level 20 would amount to less than one CR 19 encounter, so we're talking about one encounter's worth of difference -- not a big amount, IMO>
Ah, you didn't say anything about comparing with the variant XP system from Unearthed Arcana
... well now I'm embarrassed. I was digging for a 3.5 experience table online because I was too lazy to look it up in the PHB and didn't realize I'd gotten the wrong one. Thanks for pointing that out. :P
At any rate, the math for the Fast xp table is supposed to work out basically the same as the 3.5 system (either the standard one or the variant one you linked to) -- 13 encounters with CR=APL will raise you one level. There's some weird rounding in the Pathfinder xp chart that might make it more like 12 or 14, but it's about the same.
PERSONALLY, I don't bother with XP when I GM; I just tell the players to level up when the module expects it. That way, you don't have the PCs trying to kill every last dire rat and goblin so that they won't be left behind.
At any rate, the math for the Fast xp table is supposed to work out basically the same as the 3.5 system (either the standard one or the variant one you linked to) -- 13 encounters with CR=APL will raise you one level. There's some weird rounding in the Pathfinder xp chart that might make it more like 12 or 14, but it's about the same.
PERSONALLY, I don't bother with XP when I GM; I just tell the players to level up when the module expects it. That way, you don't have the PCs trying to kill every last dire rat and goblin so that they won't be left behind.
That's hugely tempting. But there's no actual mention of when that is, in these books. I assume I can figure the suggested starting level by the sample PC builds that come with each, but within each book it doesn't say when they should be what level. I'd have to go through and crunch all the numbers ... by which point I might as well let it happen organically.
Thanks for the info on 13 encounters, I didn't realize that was the case. That's pretty much the key I was after. :)
That's hugely tempting. But there's no actual mention of when that is, in these books. I assume I can figure the suggested starting level by the sample PC builds that come with each, but within each book it doesn't say when they should be what level. I'd have to go through and crunch all the numbers ... by which point I might as well let it happen organically.
PERSONALLY, I don't bother with XP when I GM; I just tell the players to level up when the module expects it. That way, you don't have the PCs trying to kill every last dire rat and goblin so that they won't be left behind.
Not to worry! Someone else did most of the work already. See this thread:
Not to worry! Someone else did most of the work already. See this thread:
I was actually going to suggest this also. Some players like keeping track of EXP, but if they don't this works wonderfully. Having run a CotCT game with this system, I just have a few suggestions/warnings to make:
1. Leveling up after Cindermaw and then again after the Trial of the Sun Tribe is really awkward, because they pretty much come one right-after the other. I'd recommend maybe pushing level 11 forward to after the House of the Moon, so the players can enjoy level 11 a bit longer than a fighter with 6 bulettes.
2. Characters need to hit level 17 just before they fight Ileosa, otherwise the EL 21 fight will prove almost impossible- especially if any of Ileosa's furies or dread wraiths survived to back her up. Also, the players have played from 1 - 16, why not give them 9th level spells? They've been very patient, after all.
Good luck!
Nice! Thanks, folks, that's awesome. I should've just asked about that in the first place.