Did any DM's just drop this NPC from their campaigns? I really don't think the subplot is that important to the AP and I have a large party that needs no additional assistance. I understand that eliminating him may make for additional issues later, but I really have no desire to give my party of 7 any additional assistnace.
Any suggestions or alternatives would be greatly appreciated.
Our PC group referred to Sial and his crew as "The Boner Squad" in honor of his tower of bone, and our interaction with him was mainly limited to daily queries of "So, are you betraying us now? How about now?"
I think the value of Shadowcount Sial comes in his subtle competition with Laori Vaius. Ideally, they should divide the PCs' loyalties, creating a fracture within the party at a crucial time when they need to work together.
In my campaign, Sial befriended one PC before "History of Ashes" began (the party was on a shopping trip at Kaer Maga; Sial orchestrated an attack by gargoyles, and then swooped in to "save the day"). He also helped out in the Acropolis (telling his favoured PC that the havero was essentially undefeatable). By the time they reached Scarwall, the wizard trusted Sial with her life.
Meanwhile, Laori cozied up to the party paladin by convincing him that she was only evil because of her cursed armour. The paladin ended up helping her because he thought he could save her from her curse.
Nobody trusted either one of the NPCs, but when the two of them finally came to blows, they called upon the party to defend them. The wizard and the paladin chose different sides, and the rest of the party got caught in the crossfire. It requires a lot of role-playing to pull it off successfully, but it can be a great fracas to drop in near the climax of Scarwall.
Great role-play, Gonturan! I may have to integrate that idea into my party as we get closer to History of Ashes. My party has yet to meet Laori yet, so I'm going to gauge how they react to her then adjust for Sial's entrance. Best (and worst) part for me is there's a Paladin in my party, with a cohort Cleric of Shelyn. Depending on how they react to them, I may also have the 'creepy following NPC' by default. I am going to try to make one or both indispensible though.
Larger parties are tough. If theres any adjustments that can be made to a key encounter or two that they need a LE Cleric to solve however....maybe it would be worth doing. I also agree with Gonturan on the competition piece. It may be easy to forget to play that up as they move through the Castle, but its the only way to invest the party in the final confrontation between the two NPCs.
Side question - does anyone know where to find the info on a Thaumaturge? I've been upgrading my NPCs to Pathfinder, and I can't find that class anywhere. I'm thinking of just making him a Cleric/Summoner instead.
Side question - does anyone know where to find the info on a Thaumaturge? I've been upgrading my NPCs to Pathfinder, and I can't find that class anywhere. I'm thinking of just making him a Cleric/Summoner instead.
Same question here. After a bit of research, I found that the real PrC name was "thaumturgist", mainly a "permanent ally summoner":
You can see it hereI don't know if I am using this class anyway; I'll see if there are any better PF options.
I think Sial can be rather fun to run, if not only because he's pretty much a boundless source of dry snark and condescending commentary. When I introduced him in my game the party was convinced at first he was a vampire. The witch had known he had been watching them for a while because she had been casting daily detect scrying spells, which only served to agitate them more.
I actually really like what Gonturan did to ingratiate both Sial and Laori to the party- that was pretty clever!
As for the Thaumaturgist class, you're either going to have to convert it to a Pathfinder prestige class (rules for which can be found in this free pdf) or completely rewrite him. Summoner's a good idea. I personally rewrote Laori as an Inquisitor, so I'd say if it fits the flavor, go for it!
Yeah, we're playing Gestault rules from Unearthed Arcana, so I made Laori a Cleric (Darkness & Destruction Domains)/Inquisitor/Holy Vindicator and Sial is a Cleric (Night & Undead Domains)/Wizard (Shadowcaster). Asyra ended up a Rogue/Shadowdancer. I have a shadow theme - go figure.
Half my group kinda likes Laori at this point, even though they think she's thoroughly creepy (but hot). They've just met Sial though in the Acropolis, and thus far are not pleased with him, even though he seemed to have helped them against the Red Mantis (probably because the Paladin doesn't trust the hot chain devil - oh well).
My Sial encountered astonishingly unfortunate luck from the get-go, but I still think he was worth including, if only for comedy relief, and to convince the party that the Brotherhood of Bones was an organization worth watching (for post-AP adventures, of course).
The party left a Shaonti and their mounts at the entrance to the Havero's cave, and one of them managed to crit her (already +20-or-so) perception roll when the Red Mantis "silently" took out the sentry. So a huge fight broke out right next to the Havero's pool, the Havero joined in, and the paladin got grabbed by a tentacle and looked doomed. Sial decided this was the perfect opportunity to ingratiate himself with the group and stepped into the fray. Unfortunately, his initiative was so low that before he could do anything beyond make a spectacular entrance, the bard had Greased the paladin, he'd squipped loose, and the party was in general retreat AND under a Silence spell the bard had placed on the rogue to maintain a "quiet retreat" area for just such an emergency. So the only things making a lot of noise were the remaining Red Mantis, Sial, and his chain demon. He used his scroll of Recall and was the only one to get out alive.
So the party's first impression of him was, "Spectacular entrance followed by Epic Fail and retreat."
I tried to re-introduce him during one of the party's sojurns in Magnimar when the warlord wandered off alone and got cornered by a pair of Red Mantis. Laori and Sial swooped in to save him. Sial fumbled epically on the very first round and ended up on the ground getting carved to pieces by a Red Mantis. The warlord had to save HIM.
In Scarwall, he was the obvious "bad guy" so I had him hang around behind the party, helpfully casting "light" whenever there was a fight, and hitting Laori with area effect spells at every opportunity. The final fight with Mithrodar included 8 Scarwall guards on top of the spectres and Mithrodar himself, and I had the spectres pour through the walls for a surprise attack while the guards engaged the front-line fighters. Guess who was standing all alone in the corridor, got surrounded by two spectres, and didn't have Death Ward up? His epic end came when he arose as a spectre, only to be carved to pieces by the rogue's holy rapier while the other party members argued about who SHOULD get to kill him.
So long story short, Sial did not aid the party in any way, but he did provide them with quite a bit of entertainment. Once you get to Scarwall, it's easier to have the Brotherhood of Bones be less effective, especially if you don't raise their levels between scenarios. I used Steevo's conversions of the two, and those worked well.
I wouldn't exclude him -- he makes for good (or poor) storytelling. Just adjust his "helpfulness" according to the size of the party. If he's totally useless to them, it can make for fun roleplaying to have him try to convince the party that they NEED him.
Hmm, as it stands, my own CotCT is in hiatus due to arguments between myself and the players. But I was really looking forward to playing out Laori and Sial in my game.
Laori was a major hit when I first introduced her. I changed her alignment to LN played her off as inflicting pain to make people stronger (gaining XP). She didn't mind killing people in a fight, but torturing someone to death serves no purpose because they gain no benefit if they can't recover to become stronger.
Anyway, I strung her along with the party through the Vivified Labyrinth and she developed a crush on the Mystic Theurge, who was LG, but changed to NG. Her reasoning being that he can inflict pain and make people stronger through martial might, divine power, and arcane magic. He's a three-fold attack on her heart. He wants to 'save' her and show her what it means to be an Elf. But they whole party laughed and were slightly creeped out when she started giggling during Blood Pig and the party started a riot. She cast Deeper Darkness, spoke in a deadly voice, then started Channeling Negative Energy (nuking those around her in the darkness), dropping flame strike and going to town with her Chain. She came off as an Avatar of Death to the commoners, and the party was slightly intimidated at the power she wielded.
In History of Ashes, Sial was fairly useful to the party. Half my party decided jumping into the pool with the Havero was a good idea. Sial really helped them here, and later on, when they were ambushed by the Red Mantis, Sial again saved them. He followed them around, and helped them pretty often, and even transported them a few times to get some supplies. The party only had access to travel magic through Sial because the Sorcerer dropped out of the party, leaving the Mystic Theurge the only Arcane caster, and he didn't have access to 5th level spells.
Anyway, so the Party really enjoys Laori, and Sial has been proven to be a strong ally (thought hey don't trust him), so the showdown in Scarwall could go either way, though I suspect the party will lean towards Laori.
That is if I can get the game up and running again from a near TPK.
I feel your pain, Tels! I got reorged at work at almost the exact same time my wife got a job, and we've played TWO sessions since March.
I'd be in withdrawal, but our Runequest game is still going strong once every two weeks, and we're starting RotRL with a very small group (3 players) that should be able to meet far more often.
So yeah, we're sitting at the beginning of Crown of Fangs, with Trifaccia dead in the street and one of the party members a thousand miles away, waiting to see what happens...
I feel your pain, Tels! I got reorged at work at almost the exact same time my wife got a job, and we've played TWO sessions since March.
I'd be in withdrawal, but our Runequest game is still going strong once every two weeks, and we're starting RotRL with a very small group (3 players) that should be able to meet far more often.
So yeah, we're sitting at the beginning of Crown of Fangs, with Trifaccia dead in the street and one of the party members a thousand miles away, waiting to see what happens...
Lucky duck. I live in Alaska, so summers here are usually really busy. Consequently, I haven't played since.... oooh probably March/April? Somewhere around there.
Great way to integrate Sial, Gotunran. I'll probably try something along a similar vein, because I am certainly worried my party are just going to ignore him or worse in Ashes.
Sial ("Silas" in my game) and Laori subplot was huge success in my CotCT game. Players were fond of Laori from the first meeting even though her Zun-Kuthon antics (giving skulls, talking about rituals and especially her armor) sometimes made them wonder what kind of evil person she was. When they encountered Silas, they were surprised about that there were more kuthonites around but as their shoanti guides didn't like him, they asked him to leave them alone.
At the beginning of Skeletons of Scarwall party encountered them again. Silas took more leading role and told them story of Scarwall and made deal with them. Laori was with them in Scarwall and Silas was "backup" (waited alone in his skull tower). In Scarwall party started to wonder what were motives of these two kuthonites as Kazavon was as well kuthonite.. This reached its peak after finding the McGuffin as Zellara warned them about their allies and their true motives.. Laori was dead at the moment so Silas was alone to face accusations of the party. Trust (if there ever was any) between party and Silas broke as Silas demanded relics of Kazavon for his order and party tried to fool him with and blamed him for trying to fool them. Party started to fear/watch out for Silas after learning he was Shadow Count. Info about that made him look more dangerous than ever before.
Still in last adventure, Silas and party made deal: Nidal would provide food and support for rebels if Brotherhood would get the relic. As shoanti didn't want relic back, party made that deal.
All in all Silas and Laori were really magnificent addition to adventure and one of the highlights for me when party was out if Korvosa. Especially after Scarwall conversations between Silas and party were amazing opportunity to made him more than just adversary. He was necessary evil, ally that could be very useful but also dangerous as he had his own goals. I would suggest that GM shouldn't cut Silas out but make him more essential. In my opinion the curate-thing isn't as interesting as keeping Silas with party to very end if it's possible.