Goblin Squad Member
|
I trust GW to prioritize things effectively. Our job, as I see it, is to brainstorm a ton of ideas, bat them around a bit, and give the devs an opportunity to cherry pick the ones they see as cost effective.
For my part, I sincerely hope the art teams devote a significant amount of effort to supporting RP-supporting emotes. I don't know how realistic it would be to create cooperative emotes, that changed based on who you're targeting, or even who's targeting you, but that would be awesome.
I'm not sure, but I would imagine there's not a lot of overlap between the people responsible for creating model animations and the people responsible for creating game systems or what little Theme Park content there'll be at launch.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
For RP mechanics I would LOVE to see something similar to what LOTRO has with their music system.
I would actually prefer to see things like music being handled the same way we've suggested handling emotes - basically, new emotes are submitted by the community and voted on, with the higher vote-getters then being vetted by GW before being included in-game.
With music, I would much rather have players make the effort to learn specific approved compositions, and then be able to perform them solo or ensemble.
It was actually quite jarring to hear a lot of what was played in LOTRO, and frankly a lot of it was played so poorly that the tavern-keeper should have kicked them out.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
While we're on the subject of music, I have to defend LOTRO's music system because of its ease of use. Maybe this is hypocritical of me, because I also defend having a more complicated crafting system just to lock out most of the hack-and-slashers who would otherwise flood the market.
But I liked the way LOTRO allowed you to save compositions as a file type, and then other people could download that file and play your compositions with a few simple macros. In my opinion, not everyone should be a crafter, but everyone should be capable of being a musician... just maybe not a very good one. Hey, everyone needs a hobby...
As for another of LOTRO's memorable RP elements... pipe-weed. And while we're at it, alcohol. How to handle them? Or should they even be in the game? (Please at least get us the booze. I don't know how I could play a dwarf, or even a human, without it.)
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
I agree completely that an RPer must abandon the structure of the RP medium at time (in this case, the MMO) to have a more effective RP experience, but that shouldn't excuse a lack of development support for features that are purely for RP purposes. I want to use my imagination to complement the game world and its features...not completely overwrite it.
Do I want pretty clothes and hundreds of furniture options before they have a solid combat system? No. But I won't play a game that refuses to support my RP playstyle, and that begins with stuff like this.
Very well said! I second this wholeheartedly.
It would be really awesome to have your mood modify your emotes, so that if you /flex while /angry, you get a very threatening gesture, but if you /flex while /flirting, you get an entirely different result.
This idea just delights me. I think emotion is something that often gets overlooked entirely in-game. It would be nice if emoted moods had an impact on something, even a small something.
Mabinogi has/had the same problem as LotRO in regards to the music system.
Lots of people mangling (for certain values of said) Nickleback, Brittany Spears, and Linkin Park on the lute, flute, and whatever else they could get their hands on.
Apocalyptica, Vitamin Strings, and Richard Cheese and Lounge Against the Machine they most certainly were not.
I wholeheartedly endorse enthusiasm in crafting, and the intent. The results, not so much.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
Point is people enjoy it otherwise it wouldn't be used.
I'm not sure what you mean by that.
Are you saying:
1) People enjoy being able to make music, otherwise they wouldn't make music?
2) People enjoy listening to others play crappy music, otherwise they wouldn't listen?
I can kind of agree with #2.
I've spent time in LOTRO trying my best to get out of the Prancing Pony, or the Crafting Hall, or the Boar's Head Fountain Square as quickly as possible to avoid having to listen to the crap being played.
However, I also believe in Freedom. What I'd really like to see is dedicated RP-areas (certain, but not all, taverns, etc.) where players had free reign to play whatever they want, with other places that are somewhat restricted to appropriate compositions. If that's too difficult, have some mechanic that gives me the freedom to bounce (like a bouncer at a bar) them out of the area if I don't like what they're playing.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
@Mogloth - I actually did play around with the manual music a time or two, and I think it's a great idea, but the potential for musical griefing is extreme.
I really think it would be great if there was a way for the community to vet submitted compositions, and then let GW vet the ones approved by the community for inclusion in the game.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
I keep thinking about how the music is done on LOTRO, how it can only be heard locally...I would really like a local voice chat feature built on the same premise. This would be built in and be the only build in voice chat. It could go hand in hand with the music and in fact be built on the same mechanic.
Hrm... Vitamin Strings and Richard Cheese seem to be pure parody bands. Isn't Apocalyptica really in another class? Like with Escala and Bush?
Cover, not parody - though to be fair in the case of Richard Cheese, it's cover UNTO parody, whereas Vitamin Strings is more of a String Quartet Homage Team.
Their covers and tributes to Red Hot Chili Peppers are most nice.
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I don't know anything about lotro but in mabinogi there were no files. Songs were literally typed onto in game scrolls which could be used only a certain number of times. And it was in a code format with letters being note with numbrrs being tembo etc.
Do not limit what songs to be written for game. If people are so worried about that, then allow them to turn off local music in the ui.
It is quite satisfying to write music then listen to my char play it. Without going to some forum somewhere
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
@DarkLightHitomi, you're right. I don't want to make it impossible to play your own music. But I don't want to have to turn it all off to be able to avoid hearing Britney Spears and Metallica. My suggestion would be to have certain areas that are totally unlimited, like player houses, and have other areas where the player-owners decide whether it's allowed, and other places where it's simply not allowed.
I don't see any reason it has to be totally unrestricted everywhere.
|
|
Start restricting one thing then another and another...
Besides with typing it in instead merely downloading files, reduces it somewhat. In mabinogi you had people playing everyonce in awhile usually at their own camp or at town square. Rarely anywhere else and there were no restrictions.
Another thing, this game has a much beloved bard class and this adds depth to that class that if you limit music you limit the flavor and appeal of that class. Even if you don't limit their powers.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
@DLH - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4QMtvk4ihg This is a video of a group of people who formed a band and converted the music to Freebird to the ABC format suitable for LOTRO.
Things like this would GREATLY add to the atmosphere of the world. Not to mention the room rates you could charge if you owned a tavern and had a band play for you.
I'm trying to think of which Apocalyptica songs I've heard are covers, and I can't think of any...
They're pretty much famous because of their covers of heavy metal into their symphonic style. They have an entire album of Metallica covers.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
I'm trying to think of which Apocalyptica songs I've heard are covers, and I can't think of any...They're pretty much famous because of their covers of heavy metal into their symphonic style. They have an entire album of Metallica covers.
That makes total sense, given their name, but I just find it strange that I haven't heard any of it...
Oh well, Back to the Internet!
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
Ok, so I see all kinds of Metallica covers showing up first for them on YouTube, and reading Wikipedia, I see that they formed to perform Metallica covers.
However, my exposure to them was through songs like Hope and Misconstruction. Never had a clue they covered Metallica until you mentioned it.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
To a completely different topic,
Bluff/Disguise. How should they be included to help roleplaying? I'm thinking that, if there are not floaty names over people's heads, then Bluff and Disguise could be used to fake a name/archetype. Or, Disguise could be used to change the character's model.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
Bluff/Disguise. How should they be included to help roleplaying? I'm thinking that, if there are not floaty names over people's heads, then Bluff and Disguise could be used to fake a name/archetype. Or, Disguise could be used to change the character's model.
I would like to see as much of the Disguise be based on in-game objects as possible. For example, Wigs, fake beards, make-up, putty to deform the face, lift shoes, fake hunches, etc.
I really hope there aren't floaty names, or that if there are, there's some way for a PC to pose as an NPC effectively, without that being utterly dependent on everyone having floaty names turned off.
|
|
Give npcs randomly generated names that look like a players name(or rather in a style that players could imitate). But bluff and disguise are skills that are supposed to be countered by other skills(sense motive/perception respectivily) which can only be /effectivly/ implemented in pc to npc interactions. Since this is computer game you get to use your actual eyes and that easily defeats such things, bluff anyway should be done pc to pc without regard to skills(effective if equipment can't be used to tell power/lvl/abilities).
Disguise might work if they let you actually change character models, but then how many people would be running around disguised as an elf with the orcs traits. It reduces the importence of race. So I think it should only be able to be used vs npcs or have limits on what you can do while in disguise.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
I would like to see actual enforcement on a role-playing specific server especially if the interface does not allow for options to self enforce encroachment from players looking to ruin the experience. Too many games have just played lip service to the term in regards to server type for too long in my opinion.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
@Nukruh, I'm a little worried by GW's statement that they will not be enforcing role-playing standards. I don't know exactly where they're going to draw the line, but I think that Moderation is the key to any open forum. If there's not a serious push to create a safe space for role-players early on, there's a very real chance that the role-playing community will never be able to wrest that space away from the ridiculers and harassers.
|
|
They also said that they are thinking of only one server. I think haveing a bunch of servers is bad but I would like to see two or three servers, regular pvp, rp, and popssibly permadeath.
It splits the player base but it makes it easier to find and play with/against same style players.
If I play a big bad guy villian, then I want rp player heroes to come and try to stop me, not some pvp focused people who dont care what my character is doing or way.
It is also nice because rp focused characters usually have a more rounded character build whereas pvp players have a straight up kill them build. A pvp build will near always outmatch an rp build of "equal" power Simply because of the different focus.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
It is also nice because rp focused characters usually have a more rounded character build whereas pvp players have a straight up kill them build. A pvp build will near always outmatch an rp build of "equal" power Simply because of the different focus.
As much as I like the idea of an RP server, the end result usually leaves something to be desired. If the world is sized for 100,000 players, RP servers in general get at best 25% of normal servers (and if you are enforcing and requiring them to actually roleplay, it likely will be even less than that). As a result you wind up with a world that is 10x too large for the population, tiny groves of people that rarely see each-other.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
As someone who exclusively plays on RP servers, I am glad that PFO has set the goal of a single server.
I have given a lot of thought to ways to use e-Harmony style personality matching to group like-minded players together, but I realize now that pretty much all of that thought was focused on Theme Parks.
A sandbox is inherently different. In effect, PFO will automatically be a PvP-RP server, without the normal buffering you get from "Barrens chat" or names like "Schlongdong" by choosing an RP server. That buffer is actually the primary reason I choose RP servers, but I still think a single server is the best choice.
Ultimately, it boils down to a couple of key things that are significantly better in a single-server setup:
1. I can play with anyone else who plays. If I meet someone in real life and find out they play PFO, there's nothing stopping me from grouping up with them.
2. Since "players are the content", I have access to all the content.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
As someone who exclusively plays on RP servers, I am glad that PFO has set the goal of a single server.
I have given a lot of thought to ways to use e-Harmony style personality matching to group like-minded players together, but I realize now that pretty much all of that thought was focused on Theme Parks.
A sandbox is inherently different. In effect, PFO will automatically be a PvP-RP server, without the normal buffering you get from "Barrens chat" or names like "Schlongdong" by choosing an RP server. That buffer is actually the primary reason I choose RP servers, but I still think a single server is the best choice.
Ultimately, it boils down to a couple of key things that are significantly better in a single-server setup:
1. I can play with anyone else who plays. If I meet someone in real life and find out they play PFO, there's nothing stopping me from grouping up with them.
2. Since "players are the content", I have access to all the content.
Agreed, I think the best way to permit RP in the best extent of things, will be for RPers to form RP guilds etc... I did like the idea of a possible RP tag for players that do prefer RP, just so they can recognize each-other in game when out of territory etc...
But just like why I oppose a PVP server on the grounds that "If the game is designed to make PVP meaningful, a PVE server cannot work, and if PVP is designed to be meaningless well don't bother with a PVP server.
The same goes for space and low/high population. if the world is designed to hold 100k people, then a separate server of 10k people won't work, but it would be fully plausible to form a RP community within a non-RP server.
|
|
for the most part im with you on this(except the size thing, but I admit I can spend three days without seeing anyone and still be happy)
The only thing is when I have a rp character and instead of fighting other rp players who would have fun with the "villian reveals his plan to soon" and other such things is limited by haveing pvp players who just ignore the rp immersion and minmax for kill power.
(minmax will exist no matter what you do, you can only limit it or encourage it[plaese limit it])
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
I did like the idea of a possible RP tag for players that do prefer RP, just so they can recognize each-other in game when out of territory etc...
I propose we instead use a NON-RP Flag, that will let players indicate they are not interested in using RP, and that will put their names inside (( and )). (mostly joking)
Personally I would like to see no floating names above a player character; unless they have decided to introduce themselves to you which would be somewhat less then a friend's list maybe just a "known acquaintances" list. You could still be able to disquise your name and such unless you are on someone's "friends" list. This could create some very interesting aspects for the bounty hunter/rogue system. Perhaps a person could even take up an alter ego if they really wanted to. Imagine if you were a bounty hunter, who knew the general location of the target (thanks to the in-game system that would do that, if there is one) but you don't know the specific person or the name of the person. All you are given is a description (from the person who issued the bounty[unless he knows the criminals name by chance]) and a general location of that criminal... but alas I deviate.
Anyhow the name system could be a very unique feature that could work with some careful brainstorming. Perhaps this would even prevent griefing in the wilderness. If you don't know the name of the person, general level, and how tough they will be to fight it would be very discouraging to griefers. But it would also making the world feel realistic and very immersive, giving it the appearance that there are more players then there really are (due to the NPCs looking similar to characters).
As to the music/chat system, I would prefer it to be music of the time period but if people really want that freedom to play their music then go for it. As long as I can mute you or perhaps filter the music that I don't like out then I'm fine. A voice chat system in-game is important though. I also think that this game will be a one-server game. Fortunately, I think this MMO appeals to a more RP-orientated crowd.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
I would love to see no floating names. I don't remember which thread, but I've suggested the game should be able to use fairly subtle auras or icons to give you general information about the character in-game, and let you inspect them to see more details. Part of the reason is I really think you should be able to pose as an NPC, and not have the game put a big flashing sign on you saying "Not an NPC!".
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I would love to see no floating names. I don't remember which thread, but I've suggested the game should be able to use fairly subtle auras or icons to give you general information about the character in-game, and let you inspect them to see more details. Part of the reason is I really think you should be able to pose as an NPC, and not have the game put a big flashing sign on you saying "Not an NPC!".
Absolutely, that might work to give some information about the player. Personally I would like to see no information given out about the player, allowing the player to choose what information he gives and doesn't give. This would put an interesting aspect on my parts of the game.
Absolutely, I agree. The auras and symbols/icons I was talking about were for friends and characters that you actually recognized because they weren't in disguise, etc.
Ah, okay I gotcha. Then yes, I absolutely think that would be a great idea. Perhaps if you were in a guild, any person in that guild would have such symbol, icon, or abbreviation next to them. Their could definitely be levels, if they are on your friend's list then that you can choose whether to see their floating name, or the if they are on the level below your list like a "persons" list then there name shows up or something. You could also just utilize the icons but that might get tough and a little clunky. Perhaps they wouldn't float above a person but you could click on them to see there information
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
We had a fight...err, discussion about this very thing here. I agree, I am all for forced anonymity. I would actually have the players fill in the information on each other as they wish and as the know.
So, information about other players would only show on the UI if you have stored information about that player (might just be "jackhole" for the name).
It would facilitate people actually socializing.
There was however, very stiff resistance to this idea (as can be seen in the linked thread).
We had a fight...err, discussion about this very thing here. I agree, I am all for forced anonymity. I would actually have the players fill in the information on each other as they wish and as the know.
So, information about other players would only show on the UI if you have stored information about that player (might just be "jackhole" for the name).
It would facilitate people actually socializing.
There was however, very stiff resistance to this idea (as can be seen in the linked thread).
Haha,loved reading your "discussion", seems more like there was stiff resistance coming from one person in particular (I won't include the name, but joking aside their was indeed some resistance). Thank you for pointing that thread out. Unfortunately, it seems the devs are hesitant about implementing a system, but perhaps through some brainstorming we can come up with some ideas concerning how to get around the potholes of that system.
I agree that forced anonymity would be a very nice feature to include within the game and also would add alot of interesting dynamics. I really like your system of having the player fill in information about each of the other players. If we perhaps gave an option for the player to reveal his name to certain people or such we could really come up with an interesting system.
Anonymity sounds a great idea.
With a system that players get to register their appearance and names in different towns, npcs/players can rant on these registered names' behaviours. Fallout inspired me of the fame in different towns, while one of an old game had "hero identity settlement" in which you gain fame/status/"levels determined by professionals (not actual characters' levels)" by offering monsters' remains to it.
A player can purchase a list and when you meet another player with the same characteristics, the system may identify him/her as the registered character(s) you've obtained from lists. A player can have a different social status in each town(even in the same town as long as he successes in disguising himself, number of registered names should be limited). With the same name/title registered, players gain shared fame in each town, while with different name players get to disguise or simple be someone else in different places.
Npcs/other players won't telepathically know everything about you, and PVP can be even achievable without directly encountering other players. For example, disguise under another identity in a town and make town folks angry at "you," when the real one shows up he would be accused of misdeeds done by you. A player can also follow another player trying to pry on his hidden identity, etc.
May be inconvenient and abusive though, and may cause problems Like 20 Dark elf rangers have names registered Drizzt in the same town. :/
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
I'm not sure how I feel about such depths of anonymity. I do like the idea of people having to learn about other players as they go, but it's a commonly accepted fact that anonymity on the Internet often leads to really idiotic and tactless behavior. I think it's better if people's names feature prominently, because then they have to worry about the reputation attached to that name.
This seems particularly important in an RP environment, given that RP communities are much smaller than the overall MMO playing population. If people are nice, I want for them to be remembered and referred to as nice. If people are jerks, I want that to come back and haunt them. All of that would be impossible if we have the option to hide everything about our avatar.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
@Beacher, you don't have to know someone's name to remember them, and identify them.
The Bounty System alone would require some way to identify the character with the bounty, both at the time the bounty is placed, and when that character is being hunted. I don't want to do anything that would make that impossible or even terribly difficult.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
True, and my idea was based on the premise that there would be no fast travel...in effect allowing for you to be a stranger in a strange land if you so desired, but I had hoped it would help create pockets of community, people who did know each other and watched each others back (like a neighborhood watch).
I agree, with fast travel it is too easy for someone to just "disappear" after acting poorly...a concrete identifying name is necessary for the bounty system.
On a more philosophical note, knowing a name does not really diminish anonymity...knowing about a person, knowing a persons interests, hopes, and hates does...so, my forced anonymity was actually about enticing/empowering people to create communities. This would actually decrease anonymity much more than just showing everyone's name and guild over their heads.
In theory, I don't have a problem with anonymity.
In application, it's the G.I.F.T. that keeps on giving.