Also, smurf. Tons of smurf.
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I am working with Louis Argesta on a patronage/kickstarter project to publish "Fire As She Goes!" as he retained the rights to his manuscript.
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My understanding is that he did return money, but inconsistently. Some received theirs back upon request, some did not. I have no way to know which group is larger (got money back - did not get money back).
Also, it was products, plural.
The Razor Coast product was completed. I know, because I completed it. :)
Completed it with the help and assistance of many others.
Nick is back in Hawaii, and I'm in touch with him.
For what it's worth, I'll have an update on the results of conversations with him and some other tidbits on my blog, shortly.
Perhaps I shouldn't have called you "Shortly".
My understanding is that he did return money, but inconsistently. Some received theirs back upon request, some did not. I have no way to know which group is larger (got money back - did not get money back).
There's a third group, though I suppose I might be the last holdout: those people who haven't requested a refund in the increasingly vain hope that Razor Coast will actually see the light of day while there's still a source for that light -- that is, before the sun goes nova.
Hey, you never know. I could win the lottery.
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My understanding is that he did return money, but inconsistently. Some received theirs back upon request, some did not. I have no way to know which group is larger (got money back - did not get money back).There's a third group, though I suppose I might be the last holdout: those people who haven't requested a refund in the increasingly vain hope that Razor Coast will actually see the light of day while there's still a source for that light -- that is, before the sun goes nova.
Hey, you never know. I could win the lottery.
Your not the only one... though we might be the only two. :)
Count me in.
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Oooh it's going to be 5th "Nic Logue is a cool guy who hit a snag, wish he will come back" vs. "That Logue person is an abomination who stole my money, violated my puppy and now hides from justice" thread? That's so new and refreshing there folks.
The good news is I've finally figured out who Keyser Söze is.
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Oooh it's going to be 5th "Nic Logue is a cool guy who hit a snag, wish he will come back" vs. "That Logue person is an abomination who stole my money, violated my puppy and now hides from justice" thread? That's so new and refreshing there folks.
I thought your puppy was recovering nicely, what with the therapy and all?
Different tone in this thread compared to last time. That is interesting. I hope it lasts. If Nick was to finish any of the products he had on the table back then, I would immediately buy. Here's hoping some new money, not just old money already spent on art, would go down well. Nick was the best RPG adventure writer I know, and damn my group is going through withdrawal.
Me too.I'm there with you, folks.You're not the only one... though we might be the only two. :)Three.
Still waiting too.
Different tone in this thread compared to last time. That is interesting. I hope it lasts.My poor, delusional friend. ;)
I know, right? Maybe I keep naively hoping humanity isn't as whacked as I think. :-)
Now, if it is, see my first post above.
Looking forward to the fireworks again.
They're always so pretty around new years.
Hook mountain massacre and Hangman's noose were incredible.
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This boat is bigger from the inside. I'm waiting too, and there is always hope.Still waiting too.Me too.I'm there with you, folks.You're not the only one... though we might be the only two. :)Three.
Isn't Razor Coast about sinking boats ? :)
if it isn't about piracy, I'm officially disappointed :)
Though I 'd still like the book, or a .pdf. Heck I could use one badass campaign with some serious opponents to maim and mutilate these weaklings PCs ... :)
I own Hangman's Noose. I had no idea it was supposed to be such a golden child. It's interesting. And messy. And a bit jumbled. It's definitely interesting, but I can't see how the sun rises nor sets in its pants.
Maybe Hook Mountain would wow me...
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I have mixed feelings about the properties changing hands without pre-orders being fully honoured. How do I prove that I haven't received a refund? etc. Also, its very early here but I keep having flashbacks about bona fide purchasers and equity and such wrt to accepting property you know people probably have a claim against.
But I've been marking exams all Christmas so I'm in an Issue spotting frame of mind
Fire as She Bears was never offered for sale and no pre-orders exist; so, Rite Publishing and the esteemed mister Russel are not involved in any pre-order mess.
For the KUG? Well, its sort of like this: Nick stated he was going to put out Razor Coast then shut down. My information indicates this property would never be published, ever.
Nick told me he believes he returned all the pre-order money for this product. I believe he believes that. I'm not in a position to assess the quality of his record keeping.
Since this is a not-for-profit venture on my part, I plan to give anyone who simply tells me they made a pre-order a free PDF of the product. Period. Honor system. Could lots of people "rip me off"? Sure. Do I care? No. So there is no need for anyone to prove anything to me about a refund. You tell me you made a pre-order and didn't receive a refund, I give you a pdf. No questions.
You want the print version? The price will be whatever my cost was to produce the book -- so it doesn't include Nick's art, etc. - not a red cent more. For costs that vary by the number of units sold, I'll apportion them across a low number of units on a per unit basis. Not sure what that number of units will be, but I'll publish it in advance.
My goal is to price the print volume more cheaply than the early price, at the same time that the size of the book has tripled. By not making a profit, I hope to set the price such that a person who pre-ordered and then also buys the new POD book receives a book at a combined reasonable price. Not sure if that made sense, so here's an example:
If my new KUG book is worth paying $20 for at market, and the pre-order price for Nick's version was $11, then I plan to try my best to hit no more $9 for the new book (if per unit cost is $8, then its $8). That way if a pre-order person buys both, they still receive solid value for their money -- despite buying twice. Will I succeed at this attempt? No idea yet. Does this plan make sound, for-profit business sense? Nope. Not a lick. And not the point.
Side note: those numbers above are not the prices, just an example. I simply don't know what the price will be yet.
Will I be totally transparent along the way and try to provide people an independent means to verify what I'm doing? Sure will. Maybe access to whatever invoice the POD of choice gives me? Not sure yet, but I will try to figure it out as I go.
A game changer will be if Nick provides me with his paypal records and, in the event he is mistaken, any money he took for the KUG. Then I can simply honor the pre-orders.
I'm willing to pour time and sweat into this. I'm willing to call in favors, and I'm even willing to lay out some of my own money -- despite having neither an ethical or legal obligation of any sort to do so -- because I think the creative value is there and the sweating writers at least deserve their audience. I'm also haunted by the lack of creative closure. However, I'm not willing to create an open funnel into my wallet and take a bath for trying to pitch in.
Here's the alternative: I'll give this back and people can keep chasing Nick. If that emerges as a consensus on this thread, I can absolutely go that route. The absolute worst darn thing would be to further anger or disappoint the very fans and good Paizoans I'm hoping to please!
I hope that plan (such as it is) makes sense. If there are logical flaws in the approach or any issue that occurs to any of you, please share. I'm very open to whatever helps me get this right.
PS The difference between versions (the original Nick took pre-orders for and the one I plan to put out) will simply be more material by the same authors. A lot more.
PPS This will definitely be an art-lite book, but if anyone knows a cartographer good with Astrosynthesis or space mapping in general, please let me know :)
Louis,
Thank you for the update! I think you are doing a great thing here, and you should know it is much appreciated.
I noticed that RC was conspicuously left out of the discussion. Damn, I really hope that comes to light.
kudos to you sir!!
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Thanks, that was just my law school brain speaking before coffee not my gamer brain. It's a messy situation from a lot of angles and I know you've been trying to fix it for a while now. You've addressed my concerns.
One thing to try to avoid would be the perception that Nick is unloading some valuable property (for example the art work - he had some WAR art and some really nice looking other pieces commissioned) to a friend for free, while at the same time refusing to pay back people who pre-ordered. Even though they are all different projects and products and you did a pile of unpaid work, only people who have been actively watching the situation know that.
Practically speaking, no one is going to buy the rights to shark-pirate themed cover art from Sinister LLC, but there is a lot of negativity out there about this whole affair and it is easy to view everything in a bad light.
About Nick's record keeping: Yeah, I pre-ordered the whole kit and kaboodle, asked for a refund and never heard back about any of it KUG included.
What is KUG?
Btw I also preordered razor coast and haven't asked for my money back but live in hope.
Hangmans noose never did it for me but I liked hook mountain massacre and Crown of the kobold king was great.
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Known Universe Gazetteer:
The Known Universe Gazetteer is an all new campaign setting for gritty space adventure with a dash of alien horror thrown in. In the Known Universe, the age of grandiose galactic empire is long past. The august civilizations of yester-century are sundered, their gloried technological achievements lost. Now spacers, pirates, and warlords fight over the ashes with a few systems burgeoning on interstellar conquest. The galaxy has gone to seed, and it is a time for brave heroes, or desperate scoundrels to claim the black as their own.
With regards to space maps - James Maliszewski just put out his Thousand Suns rpg - he might have a line on an artist who does them.
Known Universe Gazeeter:
The Known Universe Gazetteer is an all new campaign setting for gritty space adventure with a dash of alien horror thrown in. In the Known Universe, the age of grandiose galactic empire is long past. The august civilizations of yester-century are sundered, their gloried technological achievements lost. Now spacers, pirates, and warlords fight over the ashes with a few systems burgeoning on interstellar conquest. The galaxy has gone to seed, and it is a time for brave heroes, or desperate scoundrels to claim the black as their own.
Thanks.
I Didn't preorder that or the anarchists cookbook. I think I decided to wait and see how razor coast panned out.....still waiting.
Re KUG, sci fi is not really my preferred genre but if it is ever available I will consider getting it.
