| Ringtail |
The regular dagger does 2 types of damage (piercing and slashing) which helps overcome DR and has the option of being thrown, so it gives lots of options. That versatility makes it a good go to weapon for experts and not a terrible back-up weapon for warriors.
The punching dagger crits for x3 but only on a 20 and you come out with only and extra 1d4 + Str modifier in damage over the regular dagger, while critting less often. If you are using a punching a dagger, you likely aren't proficient in martial weapons so your Strength more than likely isn't good enough to make the potential extra damage on a rare single attack worth the trade off in options.
That said; the punching dagger looks pretty damn cool and the decision likely won't make much of a difference to a character in the long run, unless they are really focused on using a specific weapon.
Skerek
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the only situation i can think of where a punching dagger would be better than a normal dagger is if you were attacking something and needed a nat 20 to hit it and it didn't have DR/slashing, both weapons would deal same base damage, but you would have a 1 in 400 chance of getting that x3 crit, buuuut that wouldn't matter because if you're needing a nat 20 to hit, chances are your damage isn't going to be worth squat
a regular dagger is much better for a stealthy rouge, the only thing ringtail didn't mention is that a dagger gets bonuses to sleight of hand when you're hiding it on your body which would be handy for a rouge if s/he got caught by guards or something
| Zaister |
Zaister wrote:Do dagger and punching dagger use the same weapon proficiency?Yes, both are "simple".
That is not in dispute, but not relevant to my question. A wizard for example is not proficient with all simple weapons, but he is proficient with the dagger. The question is, does that extend to the punching dagger? My guess is no.
| DeathQuaker RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8 |
This is probably up to GM interpretation, but because a punch dagger is listed in the equipment list as "dagger, punching" -- I would read it as it is a subtype of dagger and that therefore anyone proficient in a dagger was proficient in a punch dagger. (On the other hand, these kind of listings are inconsistent -- we have a sword, short but no plain "sword" entry. Something I wish they'd clear up/correct in the Ultimate Equipment Guide, but I doubt they will.)
As for which is better, clearly the punch dagger is, because Annah from Planescape: Torment used them. <----FLAWLESS LOGIC
In seriousness, I think the ordinary dagger is a much more practical weapon and gives you way more bang for your buck (also because it can be thrown). However, I can see punch daggers as fun weapons for a certain character concept--for example, a finesse/two weapon fighting rogue (no martial weapon proficiency) who wants to fight with very concealable weapons, and prefers the improved crit bonus of the punch dagger even if it happens less often.
Dream Daemon
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That is not in dispute, but not relevant to my question. A wizard for example is not proficient with all simple weapons, but he is proficient with the dagger. The question is, does that extend to the punching dagger? My guess is no.
I apologise, I read your question in the simplest manner without understanding the intent.
I would also say no for wizards not being proficient with punching daggers under RAW, but logically, I think they should be. Since everybody can do an unarmed attack, a punch dagger is basically just that with a dagger at the end of it. Kind of like brass knuckles (which also isn't on the wizard proficiency list).