If you're my player, no looking at this thread, yes that means you Phil :P
Has anyone tried to run a logic matrix puzzle at a tabletop RPG?
I'm working on adapting one for a pathfinder adventure. I figure it'll be a nice puzzle for which I as a GM don't need to babysit the party on. They can break off into groups or singles and solve it/argue with each other and I'll sit back with some light roleplaying options for the non-puzzle people. IF they get bored/stuck they can wander off kill monsters and come back.
I'm thinking something along this line would be thematically appropriate,
http://www.braingle.com/brainteasers/29529/battles-for-the-gods.html
I'm just going to sub in my own gods/landmarks/artifacts/calendar and fiends
I figure the vault they are trying to break into will ask a random question of them, if they answer wrong they get disintegrated, so they can either risk it %80 chance of disintegration, or they can work out the entire puzzle (spend an hour or two) and save their skins.
Likely include a high int henchman/hireling or two for players who want to participate but feel constrained by a low int character.
Thoughts, advice,
If you're my player, no looking at this thread, yes that means you Phil :P
Has anyone tried to run a logic matrix puzzle at a tabletop RPG?
...
Thoughts, advice,
My thought / advice is 'Don't.'
To explain, this sounds like your getting your PLAYERS to solve a problem that should be solved by their CHARACTERS. As one of the players in my group keeps saying "I sure as hell don't have an Int of 18, but my char does". I don't expect my monk to be any better at grappling because I did some judo... why would the fighter be any better at solving logic puzzles because the player is?
If they are pure logic puzzles, have everyone make int checks, DC <something>. Each point passed by or each successful pass reduces the chance of getting it wrong by a given %. Set two or 3 DCs in there. Hitting 10 reduces the overall fail chance by 10%. Hitting 20 reduces it by 50%. Hitting 25 is solved. Tell them how well they have gone at the end of it and what the (approximate) chances of pass / fail are.
If they take the chance, roll them dice. Otherwise, up the DC and let them continue.
Also, for giggles sake to break up the monotony, don't forget to also have people make the appropriate knowledge checks half way through so the Cleric can scream out "SCREW YOU, YOU HERETICAL PIECE OF FILTH. LOKI DOESN'T HELP ANYONE OUT. IT'S A CONSPIRACY I TELL YOU. DON'T BELIEVE IT! HE'S THE TRICKSTER! HE DOESN'T HELP ANYONE! DIDN'T YOU SEE THOR!" Or for the Wizard to pass comment about the particular choice of spell components not actually matching what should be used for the cited spell, or that creature A is in fact immune to the damage dealt by weapon B and that there is obvious mistakes that should be taken up with the editor in chief.
...or, you know... if there are other elements in there that can be derived from knowledge checks (eg. Loki does use his traditional weapon or the spell components are actuals) tie those knowledge skills into it to reduce the overall DCs.
But don't do a handout. This isn't school. Your not a teacher. My character is solving the problem, not me.
Play to your group if they enjoy this kind of thing let them go nuts if not then it will bomb.
I actually put my group through a rune Sudoku once to get through a door with hints written down an varying DCs if they wanted or got stuck.
I ran a logic puzzle of this type maybe 10 months ago in my campaign. It went over great. The PCs were in the ruins of a wizard's school which, because of a malfunctioning portal, had spewed forth hundreds of demons which had overrun the place before the entire site was sealed off. In order to shut down the gate, the players had to collect amulets belonging to the five head Magisters of the school, and use the amulets to activate a device with a command sequence: they had to speak the full name of the magister, while holding the amulet which was associated with that Magister's specialty school, and do so in descending order of rank within the school.
Some advice:
1. Know your group. As several posters have pointed out, some players aren't going to be into this, and your game will grind to a halt without buy-in. In my group, we've got two PhD scientists (who have both remarked that the analytical portion of the GRE, which consists of puzzles like this, was "a pleasant diversion between two other exams), and a couple others who I knew enjoyed riddles, brain teasers, and other puzzles.
2. Have an escape valve. I can't disagree more with what Ecaterina Ducaird said. Sure, the challenge is being met by your character, not the player, but this doesn't imply that the player should have no input. Think about combat: an accomplished fighter is probably well-schooled in tactics, but those tactical choices are the result of player input. There's no skill check to see if you're smart enough to flank or avoid AoOs. Intellectual pursuits should be the same way: the dice are there to augment player input, rather than simulate the outcome entirely.
The sort of skill check stuff Ecaterina mentioned is a good idea if you find that your players are stuck, just not enjoying the puzzle, or if the game starts to grind down. Use successful checks to give additional hints, point out mistakes, etc... but making the whole challenge nothing but a string of d20 rolls is boring an unmemorable. Use it only as a last resort if you need to kick the game back in gear.
3. Be organic when you introduce the puzzle. Don't just rattle off a set of clues, hand them a grid, and say, "Good luck." If you do it right, it won't even come off as a logic puzzle at first.
As my players explored the ruins, they kept finding references to the five magisters. Diaries, angry letters back and forth between feuding wizards, statues or portraits with partially complete identifying information, etc. Without any prompting, the players had already started trying to figure out who was who. I was able to dole out clues gradually over time. The players who enjoyed logic puzzles were able to work through it gradually while they explored, but there were still encounters between clues that could keep the members of the party who weren't into the puzzle from being bored. No one was just sitting around, waiting for the puzzle types to finish.
4. The fluff of the original puzzle is irrelevant. All you really care about is the logical structure of the clues. The puzzle that you picked has a natural RPG flavor, but you could always reskin ANY puzzle, which means that if you skim around a book or website of puzzles, you can pick one as your basis with whatever difficulty you wish.
I stole the logical structure of MY puzzle of the web, but the original puzzle had them figuring out the first and last name, mode of transportation, and travel time for five people. I swapped the specialty school for the mode of transportation, and the transit time, being numerical, was pretty easy to map against the ranks of the wizards. I went through each of the clues, and "refluffed" them to fit the new scenario, while preserving the original logical effect of the clue. So for instance, if the original clue was "Mr Smith did not ride the bus," that would translate to, "Magister Brocard is not a necromancer." To make that clear, I'd maybe have the PCs find a snarky letter between two other wizards about how Magister Brocard can't master the simplest necromantic magics. (Plus, identifying the sender or recipient of the letter by first name could serve to deliver the clue that Brocard's first name is NOT one of those mentioned in the letter... Two clues with one piece of evidence.)
5. Don't be afraid to overspecify the problem. If you look at a logic puzzle from a book or a website, the clues have been chosen in such a way that you have the bare minimum amount of information needed to point to a unique solution. If you add additional clues on top of that, you aren't going to break the puzzle, but you will likely make it slightly easier. Hold a couple of extra clues in reserve for if the party doesn't seem like it's having fun, and you want them to have an easier time progressing. They'll still have a feeling of accomplishment at the end, and likely won't even realize that you threw them a softball.
Personally, I know that I enjoy this sort of thing as a player, and I know that my players really enjoyed that adventure a lot, so this sort of thing CAN work. I say go for it.