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Bitter Thorn wrote:As ever, I wonder if he penned that bit of prose before, during or after spending his seed with his *ahem* "household staff"."Sometimes it is said that man cannot be trusted with the government of himself. Can he, then be trusted with the government of others? Or have we found angels in the form of kings to govern him? Let history answer this question." (Thomas Jefferson)
"That government is best which governs the least, because its people discipline themselves." (Thomas Jefferson)
I suspect both before AND after. Despite who he worked for Jefferson in his heart idolised the setup of feudal lords. He probably would have been an enthuisast of the custom of Prima Nocht, or First Night.
That's the main difference between Jefferson and Alexander Hamilton, the conflict between which led the Civil War, Jefferson looked backwards and Hamilton looked to the future.

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Steve Pieper and Abraham Spalding already cited two of my favorite historical quotes. Fortunately, I have others.
"Hard pounding, this, gentlemen. Let's see who pounds longest."
--attributed to Wellington (Napolean's nemesis)
"Most truth is so naked that people feel sorry for it, and try to cover it up, at least a little bit."
--Edward R. Murrow (Joe McCarthy's nemesis)
"Awright, c'mon, keep movin'. Don't bask in the glory: ten years from now they'll have forgotten the best of you."
--Knute Rockne

Bitter Thorn |

C.S. Lewis ... "It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satisfied; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience."

Bitter Thorn |

another of my favorites
If you love wealth more then liberty, the tranquility of servitude better then the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your council nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen. ----Samuel Adams
and
"... it does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people's minds ...."

Bitter Thorn |

Bitter Thorn wrote:As ever, I wonder if he penned that bit of prose before, during or after spending his seed with his *ahem* "household staff"."Sometimes it is said that man cannot be trusted with the government of himself. Can he, then be trusted with the government of others? Or have we found angels in the form of kings to govern him? Let history answer this question." (Thomas Jefferson)
"That government is best which governs the least, because its people discipline themselves." (Thomas Jefferson)
"What a stupendous, what an incomprehensible machine is man! ... Who can endure toil, famine, stripes, imprisonment & death itself ... in vindication of his own liberty, and the next moment... inflict on ... his fellow men a bondage, one hour of which is fraught with more misery ... than ages of that which he rose in rebellion to oppose." -Thomas Jefferson

Freehold DM |

Freehold DM wrote:"What a stupendous, what an incomprehensible machine is man! ... Who can endure toil, famine, stripes, imprisonment & death itself ... in vindication of his own liberty, and the next moment... inflict on ... his fellow men a bondage, one hour of which is fraught with more misery ... than ages of that which he rose in rebellion to oppose." -Thomas JeffersonBitter Thorn wrote:As ever, I wonder if he penned that bit of prose before, during or after spending his seed with his *ahem* "household staff"."Sometimes it is said that man cannot be trusted with the government of himself. Can he, then be trusted with the government of others? Or have we found angels in the form of kings to govern him? Let history answer this question." (Thomas Jefferson)
"That government is best which governs the least, because its people discipline themselves." (Thomas Jefferson)
You're only making me hate him more.

Bitter Thorn |

Bitter Thorn wrote:You're only making me hate him more.Freehold DM wrote:"What a stupendous, what an incomprehensible machine is man! ... Who can endure toil, famine, stripes, imprisonment & death itself ... in vindication of his own liberty, and the next moment... inflict on ... his fellow men a bondage, one hour of which is fraught with more misery ... than ages of that which he rose in rebellion to oppose." -Thomas JeffersonBitter Thorn wrote:As ever, I wonder if he penned that bit of prose before, during or after spending his seed with his *ahem* "household staff"."Sometimes it is said that man cannot be trusted with the government of himself. Can he, then be trusted with the government of others? Or have we found angels in the form of kings to govern him? Let history answer this question." (Thomas Jefferson)
"That government is best which governs the least, because its people discipline themselves." (Thomas Jefferson)
He was a bundle of contradictions.

A Man In Black RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32 |
3 people marked this as a favorite. |
I never went in for Heinlein. I always preferred Asimov.
"He always pictured himself a libertarian, which to my way of thinking means 'I want the liberty to grow rich and you can have the liberty to starve'. It's easy to believe that no one should depend on society for help when you yourself happen not to need such help."

Bitter Thorn |

"Some writers have so confounded society with government, as to leave little or no distinction between them; whereas they are not only different, but have different origins ... Society is in every state a blessing, but Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one." --- Thomas Paine

A Man In Black RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32 |
"Some writers have so confounded society with government, as to leave little or no distinction between them; whereas they are not only different, but have different origins ... Society is in every state a blessing, but Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one." --- Thomas Paine
Bleaugh, that does a disservice to the passage. At least reflect the intent!
SOME writers have so confounded society with government, as to leave little or no distinction between them; whereas they are not only different, but have different origins. Society is produced by our wants, and government by wickedness; the former promotes our happiness positively by uniting our affections, the latter negatively by restraining our vices. The one encourages intercourse, the other creates distinctions. The first is a patron, the last a punisher.
Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one; for when we suffer, or are exposed to the same miseries by a government, which we might expect in a country without government, our calamity is heightened by reflecting that we furnish the means by which we suffer. Government, like dress, is the badge of lost innocence; the palaces of kings are built on the ruins of the bowers of paradise. For were the impulses of conscience clear, uniform, and irresistibly obeyed, man would need no other lawgiver; but that not being the case, he finds it necessary to surrender up a part of his property to furnish means for the protection of the rest; and this he is induced to do by the same prudence which in every other case advises him out of two evils to choose the least. Wherefore, security being the true design and end of government, it unanswerably follows that whatever form thereof appears most likely to ensure it to us, with the least expence and greatest benefit, is preferable to all others.
Common Sense's prose is just so lovely.

Tiny Coffee Golem |

"Speak softly and carry a big stick; you will go far" ~ T. Rosevent (adapted from a west african proverb)
"It is no use to preach to [children] if you do not act decently yourself."~ T. Rosevent
"Optimism is a good characteristic, but if carried to an excess, it becomes foolishness. We are prone to speak of the resources of this country as inexhaustible; this is not so."~ T. Rosevent
"If a man does not have an ideal and try to live up to it, then he becomes a mean, base and sordid creature, no matter how successful."~ T. Rosevent
"I have a perfect horror of words that are not backed up by deeds."~ T. Rosevent
"A vote is like a rifle: its usefulness depends upon the character of the user."~ T. Rosevent
"Don't hit at all if you can help it; don't hit a man if you can possibly avoid it; but if you do hit him, put him to sleep."~ T. Rosevent
"There is not in all America a more dangerous trait than the deification of mere smartness unaccompanied by any sense of moral responsibility."~ T. Rosevent

A Man In Black RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32 |
Hey, let's do Thomas Jefferson.
"Another means of silently lessening the inequality of property is to exempt all from taxation below a certain point, and to tax the higher portions or property in geometrical progression as they rise. Whenever there are in any country uncultivated lands and unemployed poor, it is clear that the laws of property have been so far extended as to violate natural right."

Bitter Thorn |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |

We must not let our rulers load us with perpetual debt. We must make our election between economy and liberty or profusion and servitude. If we run into such debt, as that we must be taxed in our meat and in our drink, in our necessaries and our comforts, in our labors and our amusements, for our calling and our creeds...[we will] have no time to think, no means of calling our miss-managers to account but be glad to obtain subsistence by hiring ourselves to rivet their chains on the necks of our fellow-sufferers... And this is the tendency of all human governments. A departure from principle in one instance becomes a precedent for[ another]... till the bulk of society is reduced to be mere automatons of misery... And the fore-horse of this frightful team is public debt. Taxation follows that, and in its train wretchedness and oppression. -Thomas Jefferson

Bitter Thorn |

Hey, let's do Thomas Jefferson.
"Another means of silently lessening the inequality of property is to exempt all from taxation below a certain point, and to tax the higher portions or property in geometrical progression as they rise. Whenever there are in any country uncultivated lands and unemployed poor, it is clear that the laws of property have been so far extended as to violate natural right."
"To take from one because it is thought that his own industry and that of his father's has acquired too much, in order to spare to others, who, or whose fathers have not exercised equal industry and skill, is to violate arbitrarily the first principle of association -- the guarantee to every one of a free exercise of his industry and the fruits acquired by it."

Bitter Thorn |

Experience should teach us to be most on our guard to protect liberty when the Government's purposes are beneficent. Men born to freedom are naturally alert to repel invasion of their liberty by evil-minded rulers. The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in insidious encroachment by men of zeal, well-meaning but without understanding. - Justice Louis D. Brandeis

Bitter Thorn |

"Marijuana never kicks down your door in the middle of the night.
Marijuana never locks up sick and dying people,
does not suppress medical research,
does not peek in bedroom windows.
Even if one takes every reefer madness allegation
of the prohibitionists at face value,
marijuana prohibition has done far more harm
to far more people than marijuana ever could." - William F. Buckley, Jr.

Bitter Thorn |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |

"A hand from Washington will be stretched out and placed upon every man's business; the eye of the federal inspector will be in every man's counting house.... The law will of necessity have inquisical features, it will provide penalties, it will create complicated machinery. Under it, men will be hauled into courts distant from their homes. Heavy fines imposed by distant and unfamiliar tribunals will constantly menace the taxpayer. An army of federal inspectors, spies, and detectives will descend upon the state." -Richard E. Byrd (1888-1947) Polar explorer, Virginia House Speaker; 1910, predicting the consequences of a federal income tax

Bitter Thorn |

"Hitler knows that he will have to break us in this island or lose the war. If we can stand up to him, all Europe may be free, and life of the world may move forward into broad, sunlit uplands. But if we fall, then the whole world, including the United States, including all that we have known and cared for, will sink into the abyss of a new Dark Age... Let us therefore brace ourselves to our duties, and so bear ourselves that, if the British Empire and its Commonwealth last for a thousand years, men will still say, 'This was their finest hour.'" - Sir Winston Churchill

Azazyll |

You get to the point where you evolve in your life where everything isn't black and white, good and bad, and you try to do the right thing. You might not like that. You might be very cynical about that. Well, f*** it, I don't care what you think. I'm trying to do the right thing. I'm tired of Republican-Democrat politics. They can take the job and shove it. I come from a blue-collar background. I'm trying to do the right thing, and that's where I'm going with this.
- New York State Senator Roy McDonald