Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
|
In fact, a number of your "Hurt Me Plenty" options don't seem particularly below average, but it's your list, and personal experience obviously varies.The idea isn't to make below average characters, the idea is limit good players so they can only make slightly above average character so they don't make characters who trivialize encounters.So you don't think the monk class is below average in terms of power, for instance? I must have misunderstood what you were saying.
Is there any class that you would consider below average, or are all of them average or above?
I prefer to think of them as being more challenging to play :D
Monk and rogue are probably the toughest classes to make work, they require a combination of good character building skills and solid in game tactics to really shine.
That said, I've seen a surprising number of situations where all those oddball abilities monks have can really shine. Rogues get sort of screwed fairly often because many GMs kind of give some of their stuff away for free and in my experience very few other players have the patience to help with flanking and tactics.
I think most people know this though and those who play those classes sort of embrace the challenge.
Bard can also be challenging in a different way because people have trouble with personalizing the very neat party level benefits their class brings to the table. The spellcasting of the bard is also a little more subtle than most people are used to.
Bard can also be challenging in a different way because people have trouble with personalizing the very neat party level benefits their class brings to the table. The spellcasting of the bard is also a little more subtle than most people are used to.
YMMV. The average bard is quite useful, in my experience (certainly more so than the average rogue). The one that really confused me was the Life Oracle, which I consider to be in the top 30% of all oracle mysteries; why a Life Oracle would be "Hurt Me Plenty" but not a Stone or Wind Oracle is beyond me.
|
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
|
Bard can also be challenging in a different way because people have trouble with personalizing the very neat party level benefits their class brings to the table. The spellcasting of the bard is also a little more subtle than most people are used to.YMMV. The average bard is quite useful, in my experience (certainly more so than the average rogue). The one that really confused me was the Life Oracle, which I consider to be in the top 30% of all oracle mysteries; why a Life Oracle would be "Hurt Me Plenty" but not a Stone or Wind Oracle is beyond me.
Ok, you got me. Those two were included mostly because they are generally team friendly characters. Neither is particularly weak, they are simply classes that make *everyone* at the table better rather than just the one character.
It's possible to build greedy bards I suppose, but I think it's pretty hard to build an oracle of life who doesn't primarily do team buffing/ assistance.
Though it might be fun to try doing an oracle of life who is other than his mystery geared to combat.
|
|
I think the easiest thing to do as a GM to turn on hard mode is to very rarely roll behind a screen. In almost all cases (except for things like perception of traps), I roll out in the open. As a GM, I can't fudge a crit when I do that (well unless its a game of all new players and I quickly pick up my dice before they can see what I rolled - had to do that at Dragon*Con because I didn't want the new player and party cleric to die to a ghoul). I mean, there is always the chance of my failure as well, but it sucks to suck for others as well as myself.
RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 8
|
I use index cards to track initiative in combat. If there is a question about playing up/down, I have the players enter their preference when they complete the index card for me. That way their vote is kept confidential and should prevent any peer pressure from "forcing" someone to play up to avoid conflict with the other players.
+1 to this idea. Pressuring people into playing up is something that dramatically increases the chance of a TPK.
|
Still pondering the Pathfinder Dogma idea. What about...
1) 15-point buy, all purchased scores between 9 and 15 (so racially modified scores between 7 and 17).
2) Only buy magic items from the "always available" list and chronicles, i.e., no magic shops.
3) At least 1 skill point per level spent on Craft/Profession/Knowledge.
|
|
Still pondering the Pathfinder Dogma idea. What about...
1) 15-point buy, all purchased scores between 9 and 15 (so racially modified scores between 7 and 17).
might as well use the elite ray/heroic NPC stats, 15 14 13 12 10 8
2) Only buy magic items from the "always available" list and chronicles, i.e., no magic shops.
doing this would bring on the attitude that certain builds should do certain mods to get certain times from.
3) At least 1 skill point per level spent on Craft/Profession/Knowledge.
for some classes this is very easy to do (wizard, magus, rouge, bard, alchemist, sage bloodline sorcerer). Also some of the knowledge skills are pretty damn useful, knowledge local comes up a hell of a lot for example. change it to "At least 1 skill point per level spent on Craft/Profession" perhaps?
The sad thing is even though we're trying to make something here to avoid min/maxing people are still going to try to min/max to get bragging rights "I made a dogma character that did these mods that your dogma character died on"
|
|
I've seen ridiculously effective halfling monks, especially with APG tricks. I also just retired my elf eldritch knight - an archer build that brought many head-nods around the table.
Vaguely inspired to try this out. Here would be a workable (IMHO) ultra-violence level rogue. Lots of skills, big sword, will travel...
XUE
Male Half-Orc Rogue 1
TN Medium humanoid (orc, human)
Init +1; Senses Darkvision (60 ft.), Perception +5,
DEFENSE
AC 14, touch 11, flat-footed 13 (+1 Dex, +3 Studded Leather, )
hp 11 (1d8)+3
Fort +2, Ref +3, Will +1
OFFENSE
Speed 30 ft.
Melee dagger +3 (1d4+3/19-20)
Ranged dagger (thrown) +1 (1d4+3/19-20)
Melee falchion (two handed) +3 (2d4+4/18-20)
Ranged javelin +1 (1d6+3)
Space 5 ft.; Reach 5 ft.
Special Attacks Sneak Attack 1d6,
STATISTICS
Str 16, Dex 13, Con 14, Int 13, Wis 12, Cha 12
Base Atk +0; CMB +3; CMD 14
Feats Armor Proficiency, Light, Intimidating Prowess, Simple Weapon Proficiency
Skills Acrobatics +4, Bluff +5, Climb +6, Disable Device +5, Intimidate +10, Knowledge (Local) +5, Linguistics +5, Perception +5, Perception (Trapfinding) +6, Stealth +4,
Languages Common, Draconic, Orc, Tian
Special Qualities Intimidating, Orc Blood, Orc Ferocity, Trapfinding, Weapon Familiarity,
Possessions dagger; falchion; javelin; outfit (traveler's); studded leather; Backpack [ Bedroll; Grappling Hook; Rope (Hemp/50 ft.); Whetstone; Waterskin (Filled); Torch (x3); Rations (Trail/Per Day) (x7); Mug or Tankard (Clay); ]; Mug or Tankard (Clay) ; Pouch (Belt) [ Thieves' Tools; Signal Whistle; Sewing Needle; Flint and Steel; Fishhook (x2); ];
SPECIAL ABILITIES
Intimidating (Ex) Half-orc receive a +2 racial bonus on Intimidate skill checks due to their fearsome nature.
Meridian Strike Energy flows through channels in the body, like rivers through the land. Once per day when you roll damage on a successful critical hit, reroll any 1s and take the new roll (even if it is another 1).
Orc Blood (Ex) Half-orc count as both humans and orcs for any effect related to race.
Orc Ferocity (Ex) Once per day, when a half-orc is brought below 0 hit points, but not killed, he can fight on for one more round as if disabled. At the end of his next turn, unless brought to above 0 hit points, he immediately falls unconscious and begins dying.
Sacred Touch You were exposed to a potent source of positive energy as a child, perhaps by being born under the right cosmic sign, or maybe because one of your parents was a gifted healer.
Sneak Attack (Ex) If you can catch an opponent when he is unable to defend himself effectively from your attack, you can strike a vital spot for extra damage. Your attack deals 1d6 points of extra damage anytime your target would be denied a Dexterity bonus to AC, or when you flank your target. Should you score a critical hit with a sneak attack, this extra damage is not multiplied. Ranged attacks can count as sneak attacks only if the target is within 30 feet. With a weapon that deals nonlethal damage, you can make a sneak attack that deals nonlethal damage instead of lethal damage. You cannot use a weapon that deals lethal damage to deal nonlethal damage in a sneak attack, not even with the usual -4 penalty. You must be able to see the target well enough to pick out a vital spot and must be able to reach such a spot. You cannot sneak attack while striking a creature with concealment.
Trapfinding (Ex) You add +1 to Perception skill checks made to locate traps and to Disable Device skill checks. You can use the Disable Device skill to disarm magical traps.
Weapon Familiarity (Ex) Half-orcs are proficient with greataxes and falchions, and treat any weapon with the word "orc" in its name as a martial weapon.