What in your game will be worth dying for?


Pathfinder Online


Pathfinder Online promises to be a sandbox type of game with an onus on PVP. Many parallels are made with EVE Online which is another example of sandbox type of game.

I happen to be a player of EVE and I do not understand exactly for what will we be fighting for.

In EVE, its pretty simple: Beyond the usual meta-game / big alliance politics (a.k.a. people with too much time and too much ego), people fight over resources or locations. I do not see how this can be easily applied to a medfan game.

Location: For those who do not know the game, you travel from solar system to solar system using jumpgates. Some solar systems have numerous routes flowing through them or are the only passage to access a valuable constellation. You fight to gain/retain control of those strategic points. You also develop technologies that allow you to immobilize your opponents so as to prevent him/her running away. How can you apply such a concept to a medfan game? I guess that in Pathfinder Online, you will be pretty much free to roam across the whole map. No strategic stranglehold you need to defend at all cost, except maybe a few bridges/ford/mountain passes.

Resources: EVE’s background is scifi. The universe is pretty high tech with mighty spaceshipd, long range weapons, sophisticated kit…etc. You need to gather lots of resources to build those ships, some of which can only be found in specific area (scarcity). Furthermore, building the said ships takes time and specialized manufacturing locations that you need to defend during the whole construction process. But in Pathfinder Online… how hard exactly will it be to craft my mark1 sword or my mark1 boiled leather armor? A lump of metal, a few hide… and there you go.

So, Dev, what exactly in your game will be worth me allying with other players and possibly dying for (or at the very least spending long hours in front of my computer)?

Best regards

Liberty's Edge

All of that worries me! Seriously. I play WoW, PvE server and enjoy my BG's or choice to become PvP if I so choose too.

Now what that sounds like on a smaller scale is i'm going to area X where there is Iron Ore. I need the ore to make X which I need to improve at all in this game. But so does X million other players. Now I have to defend that Iron Ore from everyone else.

What if one of those attackers has an ally/allies that have already gotten what they need from this Ore, and in so easily dominate my character, and now my time spent finding it and trying to defend it is lost.

Now every time I log in i'm stuck with the need for that ore and can never get passed it or get it unless I find someone greater than me with the kindness to help me defend it so I can get what I need from it.

I'm not a fan of forced PvP.

I hope this will not be the case in PFO.

Goblin Squad Member

Azoun The Sage wrote:

All of that worries me! Seriously. I play WoW, PvE server and enjoy my BG's or choice to become PvP if I so choose too.

Now what that sounds like on a smaller scale is i'm going to area X where there is Iron Ore. I need the ore to make X which I need to improve at all in this game. But so does X million other players. Now I have to defend that Iron Ore from everyone else.

What if one of those attackers has an ally/allies that have already gotten what they need from this Ore, and in so easily dominate my character, and now my time spent finding it and trying to defend it is lost.

Now every time I log in i'm stuck with the need for that ore and can never get passed it or get it unless I find someone greater than me with the kindness to help me defend it so I can get what I need from it.

I'm not a fan of forced PvP.

I hope this will not be the case in PFO.

Well I don't believe in eve or in any game they will ever do a system where, there is only 1 iron mine in the entire world. Odds are there will be occasional wars breaking out, but in general your average allience will actually be at full out war less then 1 month out of a year, and I'm sure there will be a few nations set up in sub-optimal areas out in the middle of nowhere for the sake of avoiding even that 1-2 months out of the year. While going for the biggest baddest ritchest allience/nation/whatever, will likely involve being at war more often due to intentional covering of a more valuble area.

It will most likely not be set up in a way that "welp you are boned unless your dinky nation can beat the largest toughest nation in the game". You will be able to accomplish everything without battling for the main areas, though most likely at a slower rate. As Ryan has pretty much said about things, "High risk = High reward, low risk = low reward"

Goblin Squad Member

1 person marked this as a favorite.
TabulaRasa wrote:


So, Dev, what exactly in your game will be worth me allying with other players and possibly dying for (or at the very least spending long hours in front of my computer)?

Glory. Honor. Righteousness. Defense of the Weak. Protector of the Realm. Expansion of the Empire. Domination of the Weak. Maleficence. Renown. LoLs.


Ryan Dancey wrote:
TabulaRasa wrote:


So, Dev, what exactly in your game will be worth me allying with other players and possibly dying for (or at the very least spending long hours in front of my computer)?
Glory. Honor. Righteousness. Defense of the Weak. Protector of the Realm. Expansion of the Empire. Domination of the Weak. Maleficence. Renown. LoLs.

Best dev answer I have read in a long, long time, and holding a lot of promise if you can pull it off.

Goblin Squad Member

Ryan Dancey wrote:
LoLs.

All is but chaff in the wake of lulz.


Ryan Dancey wrote:


Glory. Honor. Righteousness. Defense of the Weak. Protector of the Realm. Expansion of the Empire. Domination of the Weak. Maleficence. Renown. LoLs.

That is all good but will there be tangible benefit from the above built in the game? If not don't you risk losing player interest? Factional warfare in Eve is a good example of what can happen when game mechanics don't follow suit.

Frog God Games

Ryan Dancey wrote:
TabulaRasa wrote:


So, Dev, what exactly in your game will be worth me allying with other players and possibly dying for (or at the very least spending long hours in front of my computer)?
Glory. Honor. Righteousness. Defense of the Weak. Protector of the Realm. Expansion of the Empire. Domination of the Weak. Maleficence. Renown. LoLs.

Yep, bullying will be rewarded, not discouraged.

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

Chuck Wright wrote:
Ryan Dancey wrote:
TabulaRasa wrote:


So, Dev, what exactly in your game will be worth me allying with other players and possibly dying for (or at the very least spending long hours in front of my computer)?
Glory. Honor. Righteousness. Defense of the Weak. Protector of the Realm. Expansion of the Empire. Domination of the Weak. Maleficence. Renown. LoLs.
Yep, bullying will be rewarded, not discouraged.

Yep, if there's something you can do somewhere, sometimes, then you must therefore be able to do it everywhere, all the time.

Goblin Squad Member

Vic Wertz wrote:
Chuck Wright wrote:
Ryan Dancey wrote:
TabulaRasa wrote:


So, Dev, what exactly in your game will be worth me allying with other players and possibly dying for (or at the very least spending long hours in front of my computer)?
Glory. Honor. Righteousness. Defense of the Weak. Protector of the Realm. Expansion of the Empire. Domination of the Weak. Maleficence. Renown. LoLs.
Yep, bullying will be rewarded, not discouraged.
Yep, if there's something you can do somewhere, sometimes, then you must therefore be able to do it everywhere, all the time.

Indeed I'm pretty sure the listed alignments were

CE (chaotic evil)
CEer (chaotic eviler)
and CEst (chaotic evilest)
The protection of the realm part is talking about the lowbie NPC mooks.

Goblin Squad Member

Ryan Dancey wrote:
TabulaRasa wrote:


So, Dev, what exactly in your game will be worth me allying with other players and possibly dying for (or at the very least spending long hours in front of my computer)?
Glory. Honor. Righteousness. Defense of the Weak. Protector of the Realm. Expansion of the Empire. Domination of the Weak. Maleficence. Renown. LoLs.

So LG, LN, CG or CE?

Wanna make a bet on what alignment will be most successful ,i.e. have the most impact on everyone else's play style?
Here's a hint, it won't be LG.

I'm getting the feeling you guys just don't understand what people are really like under cover of online anonymity.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Natan Linggod 972 wrote:
Ryan Dancey wrote:
TabulaRasa wrote:


So, Dev, what exactly in your game will be worth me allying with other players and possibly dying for (or at the very least spending long hours in front of my computer)?
Glory. Honor. Righteousness. Defense of the Weak. Protector of the Realm. Expansion of the Empire. Domination of the Weak. Maleficence. Renown. LoLs.

So LG, LN, CG or CE?

Wanna make a bet on what alignment will be most successful ,i.e. have the most impact on everyone else's play style?
Here's a hint, it won't be LG.

Of course not. Lawful Neutral all the way!


Friends will be worth dying for. In a sandbox PvP game, friends and morale are more important than in game resources, which come and go.

Goblin Squad Member

Urlithani wrote:
Friends will be worth dying for. In a sandbox PvP game, friends and morale are more important than in game resources, which come and go.

Given I often play at unusual hours the few times I am online with my friends I want to spend having fun not dealing with online sociopaths.


Natan Linggod 972 wrote:
Urlithani wrote:
Friends will be worth dying for. In a sandbox PvP game, friends and morale are more important than in game resources, which come and go.
Given I often play at unusual hours the few times I am online with my friends I want to spend having fun not dealing with online sociopaths.

I don't see how my statement conflicts with your point of view. I also don't see how your post deals with the topic of the thread. Did you see "sandbox PvP game" and immediately go into attack mode?

Fine, I'll reword it: Friends in any online game you play are worth dying for. In MMO's, friends are more important than in game resources, which come and go.


To the OP:

All of those things you describe can easily be handled with terrain and special resources. There is no reason a medieval fantasy setting has to be less flavorful or terrain less important.

Here are some ideas for how I woud solve the problem

Eve has choke points through its warp points - Fantasy has roads and fords. The game is going to be set in the river kingdoms, so having lots of fords/bridges being natural boundaries is a reasonable thing. Sure, a player can go arround - but can his cart? If you are designing a game arround special resources, making them difficult to transport can add flavor to the game. Stone is large and heavy, but will be an important resource for castles (want to make your own starbase in Eve?). Paths to/from quarries or other special resources become important strategic locations. Individuals may be able to evade/avoid these types of checkpoints, but it would be difficult for a wagon.

As far as materials, the sky is really the limit. Special materials become important to crafters. Sure, the basic sword requires a hunk of metal. Possibly with that you can make a masterwork one too. But a magic sword requires a recipe. Special ingreedients need to be harvested. Perhaps for a flaming sword you need the tonge of a dragon. A magical shield requires an acorn from an Oak inhabitted by a Dryad. Your Mark1 equipment may be dirt simple to get resources for and make. My +5 Holy Defender on the other hand...

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