*stuff about summoning which doesn't work*
You know that just because your readied action allows you to act on AM BARBARIAN's turn, this does not allow your Gated Solars to act as well, right?
They act either on your turn (which you spent readying an action) as per a Summon Spell if you treat things that way, or on their own turn (which is whenever they roll their initiative).
Nothing I've seen indicates they'd be able to do anything but stand there, flat footed, as AM BARBARIAN charges. What happens to his charge is in question, as its now blocked, but he's already mid move, so...
*stuff about summoning which doesn't work*You know that just because your readied action allows you to act on AM BARBARIAN's turn, this does not allow your Gated Solars to act as well, right?
They act either on your turn (which you spent readying an action) as per a Summon Spell if you treat things that way, or on their own turn (which is whenever they roll their initiative).
Nothing I've seen indicates they'd be able to do anything but stand their, flat footed, as AM BARBARIAN charges. What happens to his charge is in question, as its now blocked, but he's already mid move, so...
Ready changes your init to the point at which it is taken. It is now the Solars Init, too. The Solars haven't done anything yet but its their Initiative turn... so why can't they act?
You can't do any more than summon them thats right. But them? They are free to act on their Init which is NOW.
'Cannot be dispelled' is pretty clear, I'd think.Yes. Lack of "cannot be supressed" is equally clear. Look at what spell sunder does. It has three options:
1. If you succeed, the target is supressed for one round.
2. If you succeed by exactly between 5 and 9, it's supressed for two rounds.
3. If you succeed by 10 or more, it's dispelled.Note the wording of the ability - it doesn't say "dispelled instead", and effect 1 has no upper limit on success like 2 has. Thus, regardless of how much you succeed with, it's always supressed at least 1 round. Now, if you dispel it this usually doesn't matter - but against something immune to dispel, it DOES matter as the dispel fails but the supression still works.
Well, suppressing it would send him where the plane was created. The negative and positive energy plane are interesting choices.
Or just make the plane anti magic as Spell sunder is a supernatural ability. Of course getting him their and preventing his return through the portal required to get him their is going to be the trick at that point.
*stuff about summoning which doesn't work*You know that just because your readied action allows you to act on AM BARBARIAN's turn, this does not allow your Gated Solars to act as well, right?
They act either on your turn (which you spent readying an action) as per a Summon Spell if you treat things that way, or on their own turn (which is whenever they roll their initiative).
Nothing I've seen indicates they'd be able to do anything but stand their, flat footed, as AM BARBARIAN charges. What happens to his charge is in question, as its now blocked, but he's already mid move, so...
Ready changes your init to the point at which it is taken. It is now the Solars Init, too. The Solars haven't done anything yet but its their Initiative turn... so why can't they act?
You can't do any more than summon them thats right. But them? They are free to act on their Init which is NOW.
1. Its not a Summon Monster spell. I dont see anything about their initiative being yours. They're full fledged NPC's, not Summoned creatures. They should have your own initiative.
2. Even if it were the case that it was like a Summon spell (maybe your GM rules it that way for expediency, which is not unreasonable), your readied action is all thats letting you act during someone elses turn. It does not, in any way, allow you to take a turn... though it does reset your initiative for next round. Your Solars (may) act on your turn, if thats how you're treating it, but you aren't take a turn, just a single action.
If you try and force a Solar to do your bidding, the duration is concentration, so you can't act otherwise.
Or you can barter with the CR 23 paragon of goodness, making a fair trade for being your servant and waiting around at your beck and call.
You do realize that Solar's can cast Gate as well, so I wouldn't go angering them, or being selfish and accumulating lots of wealth while others starve, or not helping every orphan you see, or .....
*stuff about summoning which doesn't work*You know that just because your readied action allows you to act on AM BARBARIAN's turn, this does not allow your Gated Solars to act as well, right?
They act either on your turn (which you spent readying an action) as per a Summon Spell if you treat things that way, or on their own turn (which is whenever they roll their initiative).
Nothing I've seen indicates they'd be able to do anything but stand their, flat footed, as AM BARBARIAN charges. What happens to his charge is in question, as its now blocked, but he's already mid move, so...
Ready changes your init to the point at which it is taken. It is now the Solars Init, too. The Solars haven't done anything yet but its their Initiative turn... so why can't they act?
You can't do any more than summon them thats right. But them? They are free to act on their Init which is NOW.
1. Its not a Summon Monster spell. I dont see anything about their initiative being yours. They're full fledged NPC's, not Summoned creatures. They should have your own initiative.
2. Even if it were the case that it was like a Summon spell (maybe your GM rules it that way for expediency, which is not unreasonable), your readied action is all thats letting you act during someone elses turn. It does not, in any way, allow you to take a turn... though it does reset your initiative for next round. Your Solars (may) act on your turn, if thats how you're treating it, but you aren't take a turn, just a single action.
New combatants don't roll Init if they enter the fray at a specific initiative number?
If you try and force a Solar to do your bidding, the duration is concentration, so you can't act otherwise.
Or you can barter with the CR 23 paragon of goodness, making a fair trade for being your servant and waiting around at your beck and call.
You do realize that Solar's can cast Gate as well, so I wouldn't go angering them, or being selfish and accumulating lots of wealth while others starve, or not helping every orphan you see, or .....
The duration is only stated for the "travel" version. The calling version has no duration stated.
Its your turn again! 8 Arrows of Slaying hit the Bat.
Cast another quickened (rod) Gate for another 2 Solars (it was fun to have two, so why not 4?). Drop the Rod, draw an extend one and cast Time Stop.
Drop 6 Delayed Fireballs on the Barbarian, cast extended Time Stop again, drop 6 delayed Fireballs on the Barbarian again.
Batsy should be dead now. Barbarian is falling while 4 Solars are firing on him and the wizard casts whatever he wants... you win.
So not only do you aggressively turn a thread about how to use magic to do the most damage in one round into another "lets all beat up on the barbarian" thread but you steal my time stop/delayed blast fireball idea without crediting me?
rude.
extended timestop is a new wrinkle though.
New combatants don't roll Init if they enter the fray at a specific initiative number?
If thats how you want to run it... but thats DM Fiat. There is no such rule that I can find.
So not only do you aggressively turn a thread about how to use magic to do the most damage in one round into another "lets all beat up on the barbarian" thread but you steal my time stop/delayed blast fireball idea without crediting me?rude.
extended timestop is a new wrinkle though.
I had 'wish for victory' as the third post (misunderstanding the point of the thread however), but I've seen that come up again too :(
Its your turn again! 8 Arrows of Slaying hit the Bat.
Cast another quickened (rod) Gate for another 2 Solars (it was fun to have two, so why not 4?). Drop the Rod, draw an extend one and cast Time Stop.
Drop 6 Delayed Fireballs on the Barbarian, cast extended Time Stop again, drop 6 delayed Fireballs on the Barbarian again.
Batsy should be dead now. Barbarian is falling while 4 Solars are firing on him and the wizard casts whatever he wants... you win.
So not only do you aggressively turn a thread about how to use magic to do the most damage in one round into another "lets all beat up on the barbarian" thread but you steal my time stop/delayed blast fireball idea without crediting me?
rude.
extended timestop is a new wrinkle though.
The threads about how to deal most damage are argued to death...
Shrink Eklogit with Shrink Item. 40ft^3 should be about 9418 pounds... means 2.3 when shrinked.
So you can throw 15. As you throw them speak the command word which makes them go back to their original size.
1d6 per 25 pounds while hurling 142222 pounds means 5688d6 of damage. So roughly 19911 points of damage. DR applies 15 times. So if you have 15 you can take 225 less damage.
I mean thats so 3.5... get over it...
If you use Meitnerium its 26666d6 of damage...
Do I win now? Good... so lets get started with serious business.
If thats how you want to run it... but thats DM Fiat. There is no such rule that I can find.
New combatants don't roll Init if they enter the fray at a specific initiative number?
Per rules you ONLY roll init once the battle starts. But the Solars weren't there as the battle started. So they will get the init at which they enter.
Per rules you ONLY roll init once the battle starts. But the Solars weren't there as the battle started. So they will get the init at which they enter.If thats how you want to run it... but thats DM Fiat. There is no such rule that I can find.
New combatants don't roll Init if they enter the fray at a specific initiative number?
Again, thats based on fiat, NOT on the rules. You are not incorrect though that it only spells out initiative at the start of combat, however.
Again, thats based on fiat, NOT on the rules. You are not incorrect though that it only spells out initiative at the start of combat, however.Per rules you ONLY roll init once the battle starts. But the Solars weren't there as the battle started. So they will get the init at which they enter.If thats how you want to run it... but thats DM Fiat. There is no such rule that I can find.
New combatants don't roll Init if they enter the fray at a specific initiative number?
So enlighten me... what Init do people have who get woken up by their buddies at init 15. Or which wake up due to your battle sounds at Init 15.
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
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RAW on that? Where is stated that you can rechoose your actions after beginning them just because it triggered someones readied action?
1. You ready action to cast Gate upon AM's charge when he gets to such-and-such range.
2. AM charges.
3. AM reaches such-and-such range.
4. You cast gate on a location right in front of AM.All peachy so far. The problem is in #5, when AM's turn resumes. You are asserting that he is obligated to continue traveling forward into the gate that just opened up. That's not the case. He actually has several options.
5a. Stop, do nothing, end charge.
5b. Turn, keep flying, end charge.
5c. Make his charge attack (assuming he's moved 10 feet or more) against the gate with Spell Sunder; if the gate is sundered, keep moving in a straight line; if not sundered, stop or turn as 5a or 5b.As to the question someone raised about "but HOW can a barbarian sunder a gate, there's
First off, in 5a and 5c, he is NOT rechoosing his actions. He is:
5a. Stopping his actions, ending his turn; or,
5c. Taking the rules-allowed step of attacking whomever he likes during his charge (movement ending before attacking, unless you have a feat that lets you move afterwards (e.g., RBA), which in this case he does). Charge has tight restrictions on how you can move, not on whom you can attack. Read it. It's right there in the book.
Since you want RAW, though, here it is:
Note that a charge action states, in RAW, that you MAY move up to twice your speed, which must be toward the designated target's nearest square, nobody in the way, no difficult terrain, etc. It does not anywhere state that, once you declare a charge, you MUST move twice your speed toward that creature. That is your interpretation. It is not RAW.
The charge rules state: "After moving, you may make a single melee attack." Not "a single melee attack against the target of your charge." Just "a single melee attack." Your interpretation that you must attack the original designated opponent is not RAW.
All references to a "designated opponent" are contained within the rules for "Movement on a Charge," and all requirements related to a charge refer only to the necessity to MOVE toward that designated opponent. None require you to ATTACK that opponent. That's the RAW.
The charge rules state: "You must move before your attack, not after." Since RAW states this, your movement must END before you make your charge attack (again, unless you have a feat or ability that supersedes this, like RBA). RAW absolutely does enable you to stop a charge any time you like, by making an attack. You could even attack yourself or your mount if you like. As long as you've moved 10 feet during your charge, you can attack, which ends your movement for the charge. Read it and weep.
By RAW:
1. Knight charges Rook
2. Bishop jumps out of the bushes along Knight's path toward Rook
Then...
3a. Knight moves past Bishop and continues charging Rook; or
3b. Knight attacks Bishop. Knight's movement ends.
3c. Knight punches himself in the face. Knight's movement ends.
If Knight had Ride-by Attack, he could:
3d. Knight attacks Bishop. Knight continues moving in a straight-line path toward Rook. Note that his movement cannot EXCEED twice his speed. There is no stated minimum distance, once the 10-foot minimum for a charge has been satisfied.
TL;DR - The full extent of your movement during a charge is OPTIONAL. You *MAY* move up to twice your speed. , not must. Over and above that, you may only move before your attack, not after, so you can stop your movement immediately by making your attack, which by RAW is not exclusively reserved for the target of your charge.
The target of your charge is the target of your charging MOVEMENT, not your attack (though you MAY choose to attack them).
RAW enough for you? It's all in the Core Rulebook.
Now, I will say that 5b could be interpreted as changing actions, and it is the only one of the three that requires that you abandon the "charge" action entirely.
And your Full Attack example was a REALLY BAD one. It is even stated that you may choose who to hit with which attack and even abort it after the first hit and thus saving you from taking a full round action.
You appear not to have read it very carefully, since all that you have said above was already described in my example, which also included the fact that "Player" had already made his SECOND attack, which committed him to the full-round action called "full attack action." He could no longer choose to abort the full attack, as that rule applies only after the first attack.
RAW on that? Where is stated that you can rechoose your actions after beginning them just because it triggered someones readied action?
1. You ready action to cast Gate upon AM's charge when he gets to such-and-such range.
2. AM charges.
3. AM reaches such-and-such range.
4. You cast gate on a location right in front of AM.All peachy so far. The problem is in #5, when AM's turn resumes. You are asserting that he is obligated to continue traveling forward into the gate that just opened up. That's not the case. He actually has several options.
5a. Stop, do nothing, end charge.
5b. Turn, keep flying, end charge.
5c. Make his charge attack (assuming he's moved 10 feet or more) against the gate with Spell Sunder; if the gate is sundered, keep moving in a straight line; if not sundered, stop or turn as 5a or 5b.As to the question someone raised about "but HOW can a barbarian sunder a gate, there's
First off, in 5a and 5c, he is NOT rechoosing his actions. He is:
5a. Stopping his actions, ending his turn; or,
5c. Taking the rules-allowed step of attacking whomever he likes during his charge (movement ending before attacking, unless you have a feat that lets you move afterwards (e.g., RBA), which in this case he does). Charge has tight restrictions on how you can move, not on whom you can attack. Read it. It's right there in the book.
Since you want RAW, though, here it is:
Note that a charge action states, in RAW, that you MAY move up to twice your speed, which must be toward the designated target's nearest square, nobody in the way, no difficult terrain, etc. It does not anywhere state that, once you declare a charge, you MUST move twice your speed toward that creature. That is your interpretation. It is not RAW.
The charge rules state: "After moving, you may make a single melee attack." Not "a single melee attack against the target of your charge." Just "a single melee attack."...
TL;DR
No matter how much you bend works like "may" which are just there to show off that you don't have to be 2x your speed from the enemy nothing states that you can rechoice and Ready even supports my claim.
But its nice to see your attempts at bending language ;). But its semantically clear no matter what you do. You may move up to your speed which means you don't have to cover that distance in order to qualify for that action.
Charging is a special full-round action that allows you to move up to twice your speed and attack during the action. Charging, however, carries tight restrictions on how you can move.
Its clearly stated that Charge is an action which consists of moving (may move up to 2x your speed) PLUS an attack.
So once you say you charge its the action charge which consists out of both. And you can't even change the target of your charge if someone changes the surroundings with a readied action
Assuming he is still capable of doing so, he continues his actions once you complete your readied action.
He is capable of doing so even if the Bishop jumps out. So he will continue his action against his original target.
I know I am going to get totally lamblasted for even saying this, but shouldn't common sense count for anything? As a DM, I don't really care how far an astute player can tangle up the Rules As Written; when you charge a target you had better be making an attack against that target! If you are charging double speed, you won't be stopping on a dime, turning 90-degrees, and streaking off to finish your charge movement.
It is just like swimming in armor. I know that RAW, you just get your armor check penalty. Not in my game, in my game you get TWICE the armor bonus your armor gives you a specific penalty on all Swim skill checks. Full-plate, even mithril full-plate? -16 on Swim checks.
And having said that, I understand that I am about to get hammered, so let's get it over with.
Master Arminas
If you could get a walking around caster level of 25 you could [use dictum to] paralyze him for one round.
That's easy: Just get Spell Specialization (dictum), Spell Perfection (dictum), and an orange prism ioun stone. That puts your caster level up to 25. Heck, with traits you can make it 26.
If you could get a walking around caster level of 25 you could [use dictum to] paralyze him for one round.That's easy: Just get Spell Specialization (dictum), Spell Perfection (dictum), and an orange prism ioun stone. That puts your caster level up to 25. Heck, with traits you can make it 26.
Nothing says screw you as lovely as a Cleric Coup de Gracing you :P
I know I am going to get totally lamblasted for even saying this, but shouldn't common sense count for anything? As a DM, I don't really care how far an astute player can tangle up the Rules As Written; when you charge a target you had better be making an attack against that target! If you are charging double speed, you won't be stopping on a dime, turning 90-degrees, and streaking off to finish your charge movement.
It is just like swimming in armor. I know that RAW, you just get your armor check penalty. Not in my game, in my game you get TWICE the armor bonus your armor gives you a specific penalty on all Swim skill checks. Full-plate, even mithril full-plate? -16 on Swim checks.
And having said that, I understand that I am about to get hammered, so let's get it over with.
Master Arminas
Well its one thing to expand the rules and another one to have two rules covering the same target
1) charging with full attack
2) mounted combat allowing only ONE attack after movement
and then saying the more "specific" one counts (because it serves them right) while every sane person would say the more RESTRICTING rule applies.
If you are standing on ice while having an ability to be able to walk without restriction on ice and and happen to be shackled (so you can take only half your speed) you could say your SU Ice Walk Ability is the MORE SPECIFIC one and thus you can move without problems...
Giggles from everyone at the table guaranteed
I know I am going to get totally lamblasted for even saying this, but shouldn't common sense count for anything? As a DM, I don't really care how far an astute player can tangle up the Rules As Written; when you charge a target you had better be making an attack against that target! If you are charging double speed, you won't be stopping on a dime, turning 90-degrees, and streaking off to finish your charge movement.
It is just like swimming in armor. I know that RAW, you just get your armor check penalty. Not in my game, in my game you get TWICE the armor bonus your armor gives you a specific penalty on all Swim skill checks. Full-plate, even mithril full-plate? -16 on Swim checks.
And having said that, I understand that I am about to get hammered, so let's get it over with.
Master Arminas
Well its one thing to expand the rules and another one to have two rules covering the same target
1) charging with full attack
2) mounted combat allowing only ONE attack after movementand then saying the more "specific" one counts (because it serves them right) while every sane person would say the more RESTRICTING rule applies.
If you are standing on ice while having an ability to be able to walk without restriction on ice and and happen to be shackled (immobilized) you could say your SU Ice Walk Ability is the MORE SPECIFIC one and thus you can move without problems...Giggles from everyone at the table guaranteed
BARBARIAN POINT OUT THAT SHACKLED AM CONDITION, NOT GENERAL COMBAT RULE. GENERALLY, HIERARCHY AM STANDARD RULE, SPECIFIC ABILITY MODIFYING ABILITY TO WORK UNDER STANDARD RULE, CONDITION MODIFYING NORMAL ABILITY TO DO ACTION, ABILITY AFFECTING HOW CHARACTER AM ACTING UNDER CONDITION, ABILITY NEGATING CONDITION IGNORING ABILITIES.
FOR INSTANCE, GOING TO NEGATIVE, COMMON EXPERIENCE FOR ANY CASTY.
NORMAL RULE AM FALLING UNCONCIOUS. FEROCITY AM SAYING GENERALLY CASTY GET ONE MORE MOVE. GRAB THEN CAUSE GRAPPLED CONDITION AM SAYING MOVE CANNOT BE SPELL BECAUSE AM GRAPPLED, DESPITE NORMAL. CONTINGENCY FOR WHEN GRAPPLED FREEDOM OF MOVEMENT AM SAYING STUFF THAT. FINALLY, GRAPPLER AM TETORI, FREEDOM OF MOVEMENT CAN SHUT FACE.
THAT GENIUS THINKING, IF BARBARIAN AM TO BORROW PHRASE.
I know I am going to get totally lamblasted for even saying this, but shouldn't common sense count for anything? As a DM, I don't really care how far an astute player can tangle up the Rules As Written; when you charge a target you had better be making an attack against that target! If you are charging double speed, you won't be stopping on a dime, turning 90-degrees, and streaking off to finish your charge movement.
It is just like swimming in armor. I know that RAW, you just get your armor check penalty. Not in my game, in my game you get TWICE the armor bonus your armor gives you a specific penalty on all Swim skill checks. Full-plate, even mithril full-plate? -16 on Swim checks.
And having said that, I understand that I am about to get hammered, so let's get it over with.
Master Arminas
Well its one thing to expand the rules and another one to have two rules covering the same target
1) charging with full attack
2) mounted combat allowing only ONE attack after movementand then saying the more "specific" one counts (because it serves them right) while every sane person would say the more RESTRICTING rule applies.
If you are standing on ice while having an ability to be able to walk without restriction on ice and and happen to be shackled (immobilized) you could say your SU Ice Walk Ability is the MORE SPECIFIC one and thus you can move without problems...Giggles from everyone at the table guaranteed
BARBARIAN POINT OUT THAT SHACKLED AM CONDITION, NOT GENERAL COMBAT RULE. GENERALLY, HIERARCHY AM STANDARD RULE, SPECIFIC ABILITY MODIFYING ABILITY TO WORK UNDER STANDARD RULE, CONDITION MODIFYING NORMAL ABILITY TO DO ACTION, ABILITY AFFECTING HOW CHARACTER AM ACTING UNDER CONDITION, ABILITY NEGATING CONDITION IGNORING ABILITIES.
FOR INSTANCE, GOING TO NEGATIVE, COMMON EXPERIENCE FOR ANY CASTY.
NORMAL RULE AM FALLING UNCONCIOUS. FEROCITY AM SAYING GENERALLY CASTY GET ONE MORE MOVE. GRAB THEN CAUSE...
Then drag something -> 5ft per round only as a standard movement rule
You are on ice and have ICE WALK Supernatural. Specific rule!You can now run x4 on Ice while dragging!
Not.
.
.
.
What you mean is having a charge GENERAL COMBAT RULE and then maybe a special rule allowing you to move 4x while charging -> more specific. And then we have another one allowing you to full attack while charging -> more specific.
So you can now move 4x your speed and full attack while charging. Why? Because you now have a more specific rule for CHARGING and thus it overrides the GENERAL CHARGING RULE.
It has nothing to do with Mounted Combat Rules.
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Note that a charge action states, in RAW, that you MAY move up to twice your speed, which must be toward the designated target's nearest square, nobody in the way, no difficult terrain, etc. It does not anywhere state that, once you declare a charge, you MUST move twice your speed toward that creature. That is your interpretation. It is not RAW.
The charge rules state: "After moving, you may make a single melee attack." Not "a single melee attack against the target of your charge." Just "a single melee attack."...
Per your interpretation, you could therefore get a charge attack against someone (Bad Guy A) just around a corner out of sight if he had a buddy (Bad Guy B) a bit past him but in sight. Declare your charge against BGB, make your movement, and take a swing at BGA once you get there. This violates the rule that you cannot charge if you don't have line of sight, which makes me think your interpretation of the charge rule is wrong.
EDIT: What was that comment about not putting some things in the rules because we shouldn't need it spelled out to that degree?
DRAGGING AM SPECIFIC CONDITION MODIFYING ABILITY TO MOVE NORMALLY, THUS AM OVERRIDING ICE WALK UNDER BARBARIAN LOGIC (WHICH AM BEST LOGIC).
BARBARIAN GET FEELING CASTY AM BEING PURPOSELY OBTUSE. BARBARIAN NOT FAN OF AVANT GARDE ARCHITECTURE, WHICH SEEMS TO BE ARCHITECTURE HOLDING TOGETHER ARGUMENT.
WHY BARBARIAN HATE AVANT GARDE ARCHITECTURE? AM REALLY BAD AT HOLDING WATER. PROBABLY WHY AM TAKING ABOUT ICE WALK. ARGUMENT DRIBBLE OUT BOTTOM ABOVE 0° CELSIUS.
And fire resistance 30 completely bolloxes the Fire Seed idea, as well as Evasion.
===Aelryinth
I had 'wish for victory' as the third post (misunderstanding the point of the thread however), but I've seen that come up again too :(
So not only do you aggressively turn a thread about how to use magic to do the most damage in one round into another "lets all beat up on the barbarian" thread but you steal my time stop/delayed blast fireball idea without crediting me?rude.
extended timestop is a new wrinkle though.
I didn't wish for victory, I wished to do infinite damage which wins the contest but likely doesn't kill AM BARBARIAN because I didn't specify where the damage happens. But killing AM BARBARIAN isn't the point of the thread.
This thread got all wonky about 100+ posts ago. I'm going to leave you gentlemen to it.
Weird, the first part says "do more damage than RAGELANCEPOUNCE" but then he added the goal of "Kill AM BARBARIAN or any other RAGELANCEPOUNCE user before they can hit you with damage excessive of RAGELANCEPOUNCE.
AM GAMEMASTER! BIG ROCK FALL FROM SKY. LAND ON ALL CASTY AND RAGELANCEPOUNCERS. ALL DIE. WANT TACO NOW. WE GO GET TACO AND BEER!
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1. Time Stop.
2. Teleport with AM Barbarian to the Abyss.
3. Teleport back.
4. Drum fingers. Need more entertainment....
5. Time Stop & return to the Abyss.
6. Replace AM Barbarian's lance with a strand of limp pasta.
7. Polymorph AM Barbarian's mount into a rotisserie chicken.
8. Have tea with Asmodeus; ask how the wife and kids are doing.
9. Teleport back.
10 Pay-per-view ScryTube!
I'm assuming that is a joke.
In which case, I tip my hat to you for making me smile.
1. Time Stop.
2. Teleport with AM Barbarian to the Abyss.
3. Teleport back.
4. Drum fingers. Need more entertainment....
5. Time Stop & return to the Abyss.
6. Replace AM Barbarian's lance with a strand of limp pasta.
7. Polymorph AM Barbarian's mount into a rotisserie chicken.
8. Have tea with Asmodeus; ask how the wife and kids are doing.
9. Teleport back.10 Pay-per-view ScryTube!
You can only ever teleport willing creatures.
Being attacked by AM Barbarian merely triggers Contingencies.
You can only ever have one contingency.
Hey, who's tellin' this story here?
YO.
AM GAMEMASTER! BIG ROCK FALL FROM SKY. LAND ON ALL CASTY AND RAGELANCEPOUNCERS. ALL DIE. WANT TACO NOW. WE GO GET TACO AND BEER!Ahem!
Why is this still funny? All it needs is a sign that says "GM's"
1. Time Stop.
2. Teleport with AM Barbarian to the Abyss.
3. Teleport back.
4. Drum fingers. Need more entertainment....
5. Time Stop & return to the Abyss.
6. Find AM BARBARIAN is now Lord of the Abyss and King of Demons
7. Teleport Back
8. Contemplate career opportunities.
9. Interplanetary Teleport.
FTFY
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
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Per your interpretation, you could therefore get a charge attack against someone (Bad Guy A) just around a corner out of sight if he had a buddy (Bad Guy B) a bit past him but in sight. Declare your charge against BGB, make your movement, and take a swing at BGA once you get there. This violates the rule that you cannot charge if you don't have line of sight, which makes me think your interpretation of the charge rule is wrong.Note that a charge action states, in RAW, that you MAY move up to twice your speed, which must be toward the designated target's nearest square, nobody in the way, no difficult terrain, etc. It does not anywhere state that, once you declare a charge, you MUST move twice your speed toward that creature. That is your interpretation. It is not RAW.
The charge rules state: "After moving, you may make a single melee attack." Not "a single melee attack against the target of your charge." Just "a single melee attack."...
You *do* have line of sight to the target of your charge.
You aren't charging Bad Guy B. You are charging Bad Guy A, to whom you have LOS. You charge toward Bad Guy A, you move at least 10 feet in a straight, unobstructed line toward Bad Guy A. You continue charging Bad Guy A. During your charge you see Bad Guy B and decide to end your movement, resolving your attack against him.
The target of your charge is the target toward which you must MOVE. "Charging, however, carries tight restrictions on how you can move." Not "on how you move and attack." Just "on how you can move."
"Attacking on a Charge: After moving, you may make a single melee attack." Not "make a single melee attack against the designated target toward whom you are moving." Just "make a single melee attack." Period. That's it. THERE ARE NO SPECIAL RESTRICTIONS ON WHOM YOU CAN ATTACK DURING A CHARGE. They do not exist in the RAW.
Check it, bro:
"Charge is a special full-round action that allows you to move up to twice your speed and attack during the action."
To go back to your example with Bad Guys A and B, what are the necessary components of a charge?
1. Designate an opponent within LOS - check, Bad Guy A.
2. Move between 10' and twice your speed in a straight, unobstructed line toward that opponent - check, toward Bad Guy A.
3. Make an attack - check, attack Bad Guy B.
Congratulations, you have begun and completed the full-round action known in the RAW as a charge.
EDIT: What was that comment about not putting some things in the rules because we shouldn't need it spelled out to that degree?
Heck, I agree. I didn't think I'd be having a long argument about whether or not a person was capable of stopping himself from running off of a cliff because he had declared the run or charge action.
Careful Mr. Nelson, I've been called "King of Trolls" and worse for making similar claims.
Please, Ravingdork. I have a title about how horrible of a troll and liar I am, and I haven't even had to get close to such a claim.
It's all about if someone hates you for some reason.
Please, Ravingdork. I have a title about how horrible of a troll and liar I am, and I haven't even had to get close to such a claim.
It's all about if someone hates you for some reason.
It seems more and more people in this community are "hating" me these days.
Successful Troll am unsure which fellow troll to bend knee to. Successful Troll also curious about what troll crown look like.
It seems more and more people in this community are "hating" me these days.Please, Ravingdork. I have a title about how horrible of a troll and liar I am, and I haven't even had to get close to such a claim.
It's all about if someone hates you for some reason.
Well, maybe if your icon wasn't so... non-swarthy.
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
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No matter how much you bend works like "may" which are just there to show off that you don't have to be 2x your speed from the enemy
Oh, is that what it means? That sounds rather like Rules as Interpreted by Alienfreak. In literal meaning, may means it is optional; must means it is compulsory. If the designers intended to compel people to move the maximum distance possible toward their target, they could have written it that way.
nothing states that you can rechoice and Ready even supports my claim.
The Ready section is irrelevant because your objection based upon them is that a character whose action is interrupted by a Ready continues their actions after the ready, and you are under the mistaken impression that a person stopping moving during a charge and attacking is changing his action. He isn't. He is performing the charge full-round action, using the RAW.
Those rules just happen to work differently than you think they do.
But its nice to see your attempts at bending language ;).
Hey bro, you wanted RAW, I gave you RAW. I quoted most of the charge section for you.
Would you like to do me the same courtesy and show where in the RAW it states that you must attack the target toward which you are charging? The "Attacking on a Charge" subsection is only 3 paragraphs long. The whole Charge section is less than a page.
Please feel free to point out the RAW that I missed that states "You must attack the target you designate and move toward with your charge."
You can argue all you like that it is implied, but we aren't talking about what the rules imply, only what they state as written.
If that sounds dogmatic and literalist to you, then I'd say pot-kettle-black regarding your interpretation of creatures and their inability to abandon actions partway through (AFTER the effects of readied actions/AoOs/etc. have been resolved). Not to change them, but to simply stop where they are.
But its semantically clear no matter what you do.
I agree. It's absolutely semantically clear, no matter what I do, because I didn't write the text.
You may move up to your speed which means you don't have to cover that distance in order to qualify for that action.
That's one implication of the word may in that sentence, but it is not the only meaning of the RAW.
Charging is a special full-round action that allows you to move up to twice your speed and attack during the action. Charging, however, carries tight restrictions on how you can move.
Agreed. And quoted by me twice already I think.
Its clearly stated that Charge is an action which consists of moving (may move up to 2x your speed) PLUS an attack.
Absolutely right.
But nowhere does it say that the target of your movement and the creature you attack need to be the same creature. That rule does not exist in the RAW, no matter how staunchly you try to infer it from the text.
So once you say you charge its the action charge which consists out of both. And you can't even change the target of your charge if someone changes the surroundings with a readied action.
Yeah, he's not changing the target of his charge. The target of the charge is the creature he designates and moves toward at least 10 feet in an unobstructed straight line.
Nowhere in the RAW does it say he must attack the creature he designates. The rule does not exist.
1. Designate target of charge to which you have LOS
2. Move 10'+ in unobstructed straight line toward target of charge
3. Stop movement
4. Attack
Those are the parts of the charge full-round action. #1 and #2 are connected to the target you designate. #3 and #4 are not. If you can find a reference in the RAW that says "stop movement adjacent to the target of your charge" or "you must attack the target of your charge," please do share it.
Quote:
Assuming he is still capable of doing so, he continues his actions once you complete your readied action.
He is capable of doing so even if the Bishop jumps out. So he will continue his action against his original target.
He is capable of continuing his actions, so he must. Since he has already moved 10' but hasn't attacked yet, he may continue to move toward the Rook and then attack if he wants. Any movement that he takes must continue in a straight, unobstructed line toward the Rook.
However, he doesn't actually have to move any more to complete the charge action. He DOES, however, have to attack to complete the charge action. He does so. He attacks the Bishop, which causes his movement to end, since his movement occurs before his attack, not after (RBA excepted).
His charge action is now complete, with absolute obedience to RAW.
Are you sure you really want to run everything by precise, literal obedience to RAW? Sometimes it doesn't work out the way you think.