It's my opinion that core classes should represent core concepts and that hybridization should be the domain of multi-classing and prestige classes. While I don't mind having them in my world I don't believe hybrids like the Alchemist, Inquisitor, Summoner or Magus should be base classes. So my question is how would one convert a base class into a prestige class? Just take the first 10 levels and come up with some prerequisites? /shrug
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Alchemist, Inquisitor, Summoner, and Magus are just as "Core" a concept as Ranger, Cleric, or Barbarian.
the whole point of a base class is that it is an adaptable package of abilities suited to a wide variety of concepts. i wouldn't want to see 3 seperate classes for Archer, Pikeman, and Swordsman when 1 "Fighter" class works just fine. they can work as "Archtypes" for a "Fighter" but shouldn't be classes of thier own.
Alchemist, Inquisitor, Summoner, and Magus are just as "Core" a concept as Ranger, Cleric, or Barbarian.
the whole point of a base class is that it is an adaptable package of abilities suited to a wide variety of concepts. i wouldn't want to see 3 seperate classes for Archer, Pikeman, and Swordsman when 1 "Fighter" class works just fine. they can work as "Archtypes" for a "Fighter" but shouldn't be classes of thier own.
Actually I agree with you. That's the whole point of what I'm getting at. All the specific concepts like Archer, Swordsman, Inquisitor, Magus, etc should be achieved through subdivisions or combinations of core classes like Fighter, Rogue, Cleric, Wizard. We don't need an entirely separate base class for every conceivable concept. If we do that we can easily have 40+ base classes like in 3.5 ed. The way I see it if someone want to play a Fighter/Wizard type they should play a Fighter/Wizard (or a prestige class that focuses on hybridization) not make a completely new base class.
In the interest of letting players have fun and be somewhat effective at all levels, I disagree with this somewhat vehemently. Having many base classes doesn't inherently hurt the game.
I'd much, much rather have a contained package of what I'm going to get, and what I have for a given level, rather than having to juggle between 3 classes (say, fighter, wizard, and eldritch knight), worrying if my powerlevel will suffer if I choose next level as a wizard instead of as a fighter or EK.
You've stated your view (and it is valid!), but why shouldn't there be base classes to fill niches that players want to play?
Let's take a fighter / wizard for example. At first level, they would have to chose between either being a fighter (with no magical abilities) or a wizard (with no fighting abilities). At 2nd level, they could finally be what they wanted...kinda...they still can't wear armor. And they won't be able to until level 4, if they don't take any additional levels of Fighter, when they can finally take Arcane Armor Training.
Why is that system better than having the magus? All it does is delay the fun of the build that the player wants.
In the interest of letting players have fun and be somewhat effective at all levels, I disagree with this somewhat vehemently. Having many base classes doesn't inherently hurt the game.
I'd much, much rather have a contained package of what I'm going to get, and what I have for a given level, rather than having to juggle between 3 classes (say, fighter, wizard, and eldritch knight), worrying if my powerlevel will suffer if I choose next level as a wizard instead of as a fighter or EK.
You've stated your view (and it is valid!), but why shouldn't there be base classes to fill niches that players want to play?
Let's take a fighter / wizard for example. At first level, they would have to chose between either being a fighter (with no magical abilities) or a wizard (with no fighting abilities). At 2nd level, they could finally be what they wanted...kinda...they still can't wear armor. And they won't be able to until level 4, if they don't take any additional levels of Fighter, when they can finally take Arcane Armor Training.
Why is that system better than having the magus? All it does is delay the fun of the build that the player wants.
I see your point. I'm just looking at it from the 3.5 point of view where there where I believe 40 plus base classes.
Also in my mind base classes should be well... base. A foundation that you can build and specialize from. I'm not good at explaining it but to me hybrids are well... hybrids between two different bases.
As for the lower level issue. I dunno. I'm almost thinking they kind of should be difficult. Not everything needs to be handed to the characters right away. If starting a game at 1st (often I start at 3rd) they should have to earn it. To me 1st is basic training. They're just one step above a 0 level kid.