| 4 people marked this as FAQ candidate. |
Are Constructs and Undead immune to Bleed damage or not?
There is different information in the Universal Monster Rules and the Creature types section of the Bestiary.
Construct Traits (Ex) Constructs are immune to death effects, disease, mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsions, phantasms, patterns, and morale effects), necromancy effects, paralysis, poison, sleep, stun, and any effect that requires a Fortitude save (unless the effect also works on objects, or is harmless). Constructs are not subject to nonlethal damage, ability damage, ability drain, fatigue, exhaustion, or energy drain. Constructs are not at risk of death from massive damage.
Format: construct traits; Location: Immune.
Example 1: Construct Traits in the Universal Monster Rules. No mention of immunity to bleed.
Undead Traits (Ex) Undead are immune to death effects, disease, mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsions, morale effects, phantasms, and patterns), paralysis, poison, sleep, stun, and any effect that requires a Fortitude save (unless the effect also works on objects or is harmless). Undead are not subject to ability drain, energy drain, or nonlethal damage. Undead are immune to damage or penalties to their physical ability scores (Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution), as well as to fatigue and exhaustion effects. Undead are not at risk of death from massive damage.
Format: undead traits; Location: Immune.
Example 2: Undead Trates in the Universal Monster Rules. Again, no mention of immunity to bleed.
Immunity to bleed, disease, death effects, necromancy effects, paralysis, poison, sleep effects, and stunning.
Example 1A: Here we see Constructs are immune to bleed - conflicting with example 1.
Immunity to bleed, death effects, disease, paralysis, poison, sleep effects, and stunning.
Example 2A: Here we see Undead are immune to bleed - conflicting with example 2.
|
Not a conflict. Different sources, so potentially different effects.
Note that having Undead Traits, and being of the Undead creature type, are not always going to be one and the same. The same holds true for Construct Traits and being of the Construct creature type.
I believe this was done that way because of, among other things, potential PC races like Dhampyr & Warforged, which vary a bit from the standard monsters.
I bring this up primarily because someone at Paizo (I'm thinking it was James) said that bleed damage could be flavored different ways even against undead and constructs.
However, under the rules there is a chance that these kinds of creatures could be immune to the damage entirely - which would be in total contradiction to the statement.
So would that mean that standard monsters (say a Skeleton and an Ice Golem from the bestiary) are not immune to Bleed?
Also, that would mean that the standard Bestiary Undead/Constructs are not immune to bleed, but created monsters would be (since they would follow the rules for the Creature Types templates)?
That's just a touch difficult for me to wrap my head around.
|
|
Not at all.
Consider the Skeleton.
Medium undead
Immune undead traits
So, creature TYPE is undead, and it has undead traits, so both apply.
And the Ice Golem:
Medium construct (cold)
Immune construct traits
So, again, the creature TYPE is construct, and it has construct traits, so both apply.
From the beginning of the Bestiary:
Alignment, Size, and Type: While a monster’s size and
type remain constant (unless changed by the application of
templates or other unusual modifiers), alignment is far
more fluid. The alignments listed for each monster in this
book represent the norm for those monsters—they can
vary as you require them to in order to serve the needs of
your campaign. Only in the case of relatively unintelligent
monsters (creatures with an Intelligence of 2 or lower are
almost never anything other than neutral) and planar
monsters (outsiders with alignments other than those
listed are unusual and typically outcasts from their kind)
is the listed alignment relatively unchangeable.
So monster TYPE is shown on the same line as typical alignment and size.
Not at all.
Consider the Skeleton.
Medium undead
Immune undead traitsSo, creature TYPE is undead, and it has undead traits, so both apply.
Why not just add bleed to the Undead Traits? It covers everything else that the Undead Type does. Why add an extra layer of complexity to this? That's a lot of legwork for a GM.