RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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Second, I'd probably the NPCs treat the character as a bit whacked because, well, it's a loony story that is completely unprovable in character, and the NPCs aren't stupid.
That's reasonable, and it lets the player riff off of that incredulity, but Elminster's inter-dimensional travel is no less bizarre than a PC's "my father is a demon" or an NPC's "I'm a shape-shifting dragon."
(And it's been established, in Pathfinder Society no less, that certain magical effects can "split" a character into multiple versions of himself, at different character levels.)
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As a point of discussion, how would you feel about a player who brings "Elmister the Sage of Shadowdale" to your table, explaining that the PC is Elminster, who was hit by level-draining undead in Realmspace on his way to Golarion.
("Level draining doesn't work like that." "It does where I'm from. It's a fascinating change, seeming as it were an imposition of some local alteration of the Vecna Enervation Constant.")
Not to be a Richard myself, but I'd say such a character could be punted because he says he's 'the Elminster' which means using copywrited material without permission. It's different than naming your baby Raistlin.
My Talyn doesn't claim to have formerly been a living warship after all. :-)
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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Not to be a Richard myself, but I'd say such a character could be punted because he says he's 'the Elminster' which means using copywrited material without permission. It's different than naming your baby Raistlin.
That's a good reason to remove every "parody" character from the campaign, Matt.
(And, to get super-picky, it's not copyright. If I published a paragraph from some Wizards or TSR sourcebook, that'd be copyright. Paizo is happy to print threads that talk about characters from the Realms, Greyhawk, etc. Playing Elminster in PFS organized play is like writing fanfic.)
Who gets to decide what counts as appropriate, especially when dealing a lot of people who know enough about Golarion to get by, and not yet enough to know what the full range of what Golarion has to offer in terms of cultures?
Who currently decides what is appropriate in PFS? The same people would do so.
There are really two issues being spoken of here, one has to do with at-the-table adjudication, and the other is the immersive environment PFS is fostering.
The standard itself is quite simple and applies to every RPG, including this one. IC=good, OOC=bad. IC,in this case, pertains to the Pathfinder setting, and OOC does not.
What if they pick a culture you personally despise, but is fully supported by the world?
I'm not sure I fully understand this question. Are you referring to Golarion cultures? In that case, great! They are doing what they should be doing. Whether a GM favors a culture or not, has nothing to do with it, at least with regards to a PFS standard.
The problem with having naming standards as rigourous as you suggest is that people have different levels of knowledge about Golarion and different views on what constitutes appropriate.
"Rigorous"?? What standard are you referring to? You don't have to be familiar with Golarion at all to come up with fantasy appropriate name. In about 2 minutes of looking you could find a more Golarion-specific name if you wanted. Moreover, if someone is helping a player who has never played a fantasy RPG before, then you can help him very quickly. Just open any Pathfinder setting book, or look at the Pathfinder wiki, or Google "fantasy name generator" - fairly simple and straightforward.
This idea that coming up with a setting-acceptable name is some big process and all that is completely misguided.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Not to be a Richard myself, but I'd say such a character could be punted because he says he's 'the Elminster' which means using copywrited material without permission. It's different than naming your baby Raistlin.That's a good reason to remove every "parody" character from the campaign, Matt.
(And, to get super-picky, it's not copyright. If I published a paragraph from some Wizards or TSR sourcebook, that'd be copyright. Paizo is happy to print threads that talk about characters from the Realms, Greyhawk, etc. Playing Elminster in PFS organized play is like writing fanfic.)
Point taken, (Though I personally see a difference).
In reflection, I think it also comes down to how 'Elminster' is played. If he's hogging time and generally ruining things for the other players the 'don't be a dick' rule comes in. I can be a bit of a ham, and have to make sure I'm not doing something similar, without a FR character to do it for me (laserpoints Carol Burnette's cats, provides own soundtrack, etc)
I mean Zphroid Beeblebrox, Paladin of Saranae is not automatically going to be disruptive, anymore than Arthur Dent, Wizard.
"Two things you never give Matthew, shapechangers or prestidigitation"
Ok, I'll play a man who loves his technology. After all, we have Numeria. A lost man raised by apes? Mwangi jungles. John Woo martial arts? Jalmeray or Tian Xia. If someone gives me a name, I can come up with a race and region hybrid to make it fit.
I'm not sure how this responds to what I was saying. But, you just showed how easy it is to come up with a character concept (which includes a name) that is appropriate for the setting. Now we just need to foster that idea throughout the Society.
Plus, since when do *you* get to decide you know everything about Golarion?
Eh? I never decided that, nor implied it, and in fact I do not know everything about Golarion. But that really has nothing to do with this discussion, as far as I can tell. I have the same books that everyone else has.
To put it simply, any GM who refused a player a seat over a name would likely be told by the local VC to either learn to play nice with others, or not GM.
I would never "simply" refuse a player a seat because of an outrageous name. But I would certainly encourage them to change it to more of a setting-appropriate name, and I would hope that everyone in the Society would encourage their fellow players to create an immersive environment in which we play.
Fun is why we play PFS, just because its not your type of fun doesn't mean others cant enjoy it.
You can have fun doing a million different things, it is not simply fun. We play a specific RPG, in a specific setting and we have fun doing it.
What exactly is my type of "fun"? The way I see it, my type of "fun" is taking part in the Pathfinder Society, which is a Pathfinder based RPG. This RPG takes place in the Pathfinder setting. Is that different than yours? From your statement it seems you are implying that it doesn't matter what setting you are playing in, or that it is a roleplaying game that we are playing. Am I misconstruing what you are saying?
As a point of discussion, how would you feel about a player who brings "Elmister the Sage of Shadowdale" to your table, explaining that the PC is Elminster, who was hit by level-draining undead in Realmspace on his way to Golarion.
("Level draining doesn't work like that." "It does where I'm from. It's a fascinating change, seeming as it were an imposition of some local alteration of the Vecna Enervation Constant.")
This is an obvious transplant from a different setting.
If I was a GM, I'd politely suggest that he change his name, and/or concept because this is Golarion, not the Forgotten Realms. If the player didn't care what I had to say, then I would make a mental note of him, and would seek to avoid him in the future.
If I was a player, I would make a mental note of him, and would seek to avoid him in the future.
having worked with people in real life with names that have caused me concern using in public.... I find this entire line of discussion silly.
When I glance up from the mod that I am running, that the Coordinator gave me 5 minutes ago, that I played months ago and while I am speed reading the summary for, and I look for table tents to see what I've got at my table. I see 5 players - 4 with tents (this is a very well prepared table - I average about 20% table tents).
1) "Sam - Human Fighter" (a smudged number marked out a few times that I think is a 6) "Little Dude with a Big Sword" and an anime picture of a character with a sword bigger than him.
2) "Mortavish Lollenthal Ratavinsky the 3rd" and a lot of discription of a gnome who I think might be a rogue.
3) "Natasha - Dancer of the Northlands" scribbled on a folded 3x5 index card.
4) "Quwett'chrn'tkkw* - Female Human (Mwangi)" and a discription involving facial scars, feathers and bone piercings. *The name needs to be pronounced with a tounge pop at the end.I now try to twist my poor dyslexic mouth around names in the module that I have only heard once months ago... and I wonder, why can't we have names that I've heard before? That I can pronounce?
If you really want to enforce some "rules" on names - There should be COMMON first names - you know, by culture and religion and location. This would give me a chance to learn how to pronounce them. After all, how many Johns do you know?
How about a contact named Irorigift, cause he was the gift from Irori (at least his mom thought so). or an underworld contact named Thug... or Whitey cause he has white hair.
Oh, and in the list of names above, the only one from fantasy lit. was Sam - he was named after Samwise Gamgi.
- The time factor is challenging, and as you mention, there is little time for anything else. I don't think you can really "enforce" rules on names, but you can suggest and foster immersive ideas with players who are not as familiar with the setting (If you have time *grins*).
- There are common names associated with each of the races.
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I am pretty sure that if I actually showed up with a character named DR. BARBARIAN AM BARBARIAN, PhD. to a table, I would be laughed out of the game. Or else the guys there would believe I was just a ripoff.
I am wondering about what would happen if I showed up with a Bard Archaeologist called Indiana Jones, though.
Probably the same thing.
At Neoncon I played with a character who looked just like Indie, whistled his theme and was a bard archaeologist, only his name was shade. There was also Aroden Reborn, an amazingly fun character.
1) Names that I find "stupid" take me out of the experience in organized play
2) I'm the arbiter of what I find "stupid"... can't enforce that in a rule.
Second, I'd probably the NPCs treat the character as a bit whacked because, well, it's a loony story that is completely unprovable in character, and the NPCs aren't stupid.That's reasonable, and it lets the player riff off of that incredulity, but Elminster's inter-dimensional travel is no less bizarre than a PC's "my father is a demon" or an NPC's "I'm a shape-shifting dragon."
(And it's been established, in Pathfinder Society no less, that certain magical effects can "split" a character into multiple versions of himself, at different character levels.)
True, but they can generally prove those stories eventually. I wouldn't have them treat the character as a complete whackjob, just someone who has yet to prove their claims.
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I personally am a strong proponent of the comic book school of character naming. Which is why my F Human cleric of Sarenrae is named Sister Bene Gesserit and my monk is named Order Coleoptera. Guess which faction he works for!
Yet, this is the sort of thing that I do find disruptive at a gaming table. I don't mind people making up their own names; I don't insist that the names be Golarion specific. I do draw the line at "Hah! In joke for someone who's seen Star Wars! Read Dune! Seen The Matrix!"
If you're going to make a name that's a pun or a joke reference, make it subtle enough that it's not clubbing someone over the head with the reference.
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I don't think any PFS GM should stop a player using a character that has a name that breaks immersion or is that of a character from a TV series, movie or book.
Why? Because for some people there is already stuff allowed in PFS that breaks immersion for them, e.g. gunslingers, samurai, Osirian etc. Why should a whole class with mechanical impact be allowed but not someone calling their elf Legolas?
Secondly, not every character name is recognisable to everyone, the example up thread of someone using Elric without realising it could be inferred as being a "rip off" of Stormbringer.
Equally some GMs may not recognise a name, let it ride with no problem - in which case after playing several scenarios a player should not be told to change their character's name just because their latest GM is more knowledgable about manga / computer games / fantasy novels than the previous GMs. I wouldn't have a clue if someone named their character after a Final Fantasy character or an Anime character.
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Venture-Captain, Missouri—Cape Girardeau
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I don't think any PFS GM should stop a player using a character that has a name that breaks immersion or is that of a character from a TV series, movie or book.
Why? Because for some people there is already stuff allowed in PFS that breaks immersion for them, e.g. gunslingers, samurai, Osirian etc. Why should a whole class with mechanical impact be allowed but not someone calling their elf Legolas?
Secondly, not every character name is recognisable to everyone, the example up thread of someone using Elric without realising it could be inferred as being a "rip off" of Stormbringer.
Equally some GMs may not recognise a name, let it ride with no problem - in which case after playing several scenarios a player should not be told to change their character's name just because their latest GM is more knowledgable about manga / computer games / fantasy novels than the previous GMs. I wouldn't have a clue if someone named their character after a Final Fantasy character or an Anime character.
So true. If I named a character Druss the Axe or Waylander, how many people would get the reference?
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I personally am a strong proponent of the comic book school of character naming. Which is why my F Human cleric of Sarenrae is named Sister Bene Gesserit and my monk is named Order Coleoptera. Guess which faction he works for!Yet, this is the sort of thing that I do find disruptive at a gaming table. I don't mind people making up their own names; I don't insist that the names be Golarion specific. I do draw the line at "Hah! In joke for someone who's seen Star Wars! Read Dune! Seen The Matrix!"
If you're going to make a name that's a pun or a joke reference, make it subtle enough that it's not clubbing someone over the head with the reference.
What about my dwarf gunslinger named Busta Capp?
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So now I'm wondering what some of the people in this thread would think of my first PFS character - Mash the Barbarian. His full name is actually Reginald Bartholomew Brightsword VII, but Mash is his nickname, which comes from the first word of his battle cry: "MASH CRUSH KILL DESTROY!!!" Would that "break immersion" for some people, because it's not a "fantasy name"?
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What about my dwarf gunslinger named Busta Capp?
As a player, I'd try to find people who had similar views on names and game with them instead. When you have a character name that's a bad pun, you're sending a signal.
The signal is this: "I'm going for a Saturday morning cartoon low comedy vibe in your Pulp Fantasy game. I'd rather giggle at my character's name than try to help other players reach immersion."
And that's a valid play style if everyone else at the table agrees.
However, someone saying "I'm not happy with that play style" - as I do - gets slapped with the expectation of "suck it up, crybaby."
Would you object if, every time I heard your character's name, I replied with "Ruh-roh, Raggie!" and had my Great Dane eidolon demand a Scooby Snack before acting in combat? Or demanded that everything be described as Smurfy?
The point here is that play styles exist on a continuum. I'd like a mechanism by which players can self-sort by play style.
What about my dwarf gunslinger named Busta Capp?
So now I'm wondering what some of the people in this thread would think of my first PFS character - Mash the Barbarian.
Etc. Personally, these kind of names make me roll my eyes once, but when we actually start playing, "Busta" or "Mash" aren't really any better or worse names than "Glivoniel" or "Almwick".
I'm probably more irritated (not much, but a little) by PCs with a ridiculous personality than a ridiculous name.
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(in PF) my heavy armor cleric with almost no melee attack ability (with several posts on this board explaining how "useless a pure defensive character is".Don't judge my character by his name, judge him by if it is fun to be at the table with him.
This was my first pathfinder society character, and was by far the most fun to play. Never doubt the potency of a cleric in full plate on the front lines. I tip my hat to you, sir.
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What about my dwarf gunslinger named Busta Capp?So now I'm wondering what some of the people in this thread would think of my first PFS character - Mash the Barbarian.Etc. Personally, these kind of names make me roll my eyes once, but when we actually start playing, "Busta" or "Mash" aren't really any better or worse names than "Glivoniel" or "Almwick".
I'm probably more irritated (not much, but a little) by PCs with a ridiculous personality than a ridiculous name.
I can understand "Busta Capp" being an "out of character" name in a fantasy setting. But a big, dumb barbarian having a short, violent nickname like "Mash" seems appropriate to me. That's why I asked, since the discussion here made me think that some of you might not like that name, which kinda surprised me.
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"Bob the Seventh, Barbarian. Wake me up when we do inititive."
"Sir Spam-a-lot, Master Summoner of The Pythonic Lodge."
"Thurin Galmorson, Dwarven Wizard."
"Varth Dader, Absolutely Fabulous Masked Bard!"
"Ned Flanders, Cleric of Iomedae!"
....
"OK, we're going to be playing a game of political intrigue, called The Dalsine Affair."
To be fair, the player at that table did do an EXCELLENT Ned Flanders
impression.
"The Inheritor says these people have been bad! Hi diddly-oh! bane spell!"
Bob The Seventh slowed everything down by demanding every ruling that could conceivably have gone against him checked in a book.