Bladestorm: STR Ranger's guide to TWF for Fighters

[Azaelas Fayth]

Might I recommend making a list of what is absolutely neccessary for the build to function then filling in what you want?

Also I think focusing all you can on DEX would be best then use Rage for your Damage. Hmm... Does a Light Shield count as a Light Weapon for Weapon Finesse?

[williamoak]

I'm not 100% sure, I was just trying to clean up what STR ranger had put up. There is the flexibility to take weapon finesse, but I dont think it work with finesse.

We could just as well remove improved TWF,put more in CON rather than DEX. The feats I didnt mark where either unclear on STR rangers original post, and honestly I was unsure what would do best. I'm a lesser optimizer in the best of cases.

Did you have a chance to check my ranged TWW? I posted just after you started thinking of the viking.

[Azaelas Fayth]

It won't load the Download Button for me.

And Rage is good for CON and STR. And Light Shield/Spiked Light Shield is a Light Martial Weapon so it does work with Finesse.

[williamoak]

I'm not terribly knowleadgeable about what would make most sense. Thunder & fang looks cool, but the cost is high, and I know it doesnt seem to fit well within your two main TWF types.

It could be worth taking weapon finesse at level 2 (and put the +2 in dex, to easily qualify fot ITWF), then retraining it later once your strength becomes better

try this link for the ranged TWW:
Ranged TWF slinger

[williamoak]

I see 2 alternatives, that both focus on strength. I dont think the viking is the best for TWF, but that could change.

1) Human: Use focused study (skill focus: survival at level 8) to get eldritch heritage & improved (orc). COmbined with decent cha, this could make an intimidate centered build. Then you weave the best rage powers you can around this.

To this you can include the Thunder & Fang feat, that allows you to use a klar (basically a light siked shield) with an earth breaker. Could be nice.

2) Dwarf: Focus on CON and strength. You can take TWF to get the "chain flail master" feat that allows you to wield a chain-flail 1 handed with a shield. Combined with combat reflexes and the reach variation of the chain-flail, you could have a lockdown master. I'm not familiar with what rage powers would go best with it.

[STR Ranger]

Ok I have cleaned this up a bit.

The idea is to Main Hand a LARGE SHIELD and offhand a cestus.
That allows you to 2handed shield bash when you move or AOO, thus getting the 1 to 3 PA Ratio.

Race:
Human- Skilled race feature

Traits- Optimistic Gambler, Defender of the Society

1-Improved Shieldbash, Power Attack
2-Weapon Fcs:Shield,Fearsome
3-Shield Defense +1, TWF
4-Weapon VersatilityBerserker
5- Combat Reflexes
6- Shield Slam, H-Skill Focus:Intimidate
7- Shield Defense +2 Improved TWF
8- Gtr Weapon Focus : Shield
9- Arcane Heritage:Orc Bloodline (lasts 1+1d4rds from trait)
10-Superstition
11- Shield Defense +3,Shield Master
12-Pin down , Retrain Weapon Versatility for Dazing Assault , Skill Focus:Survival
13- Quicken SLA: Touch of Rage
14 Witchunter
15-Shield Defense +4
16-Reckless Abandon, Retrain Pin down for Come and Get Me
17- Improved Eldritch Heritage
18- Doubleslice
19- Armor Mastery Two Weapon Rend
20- Weapon Mastery, Inspire Ferocity

20point buy
STR 16 (14+2human) 5 POINTS (stat bump 12, 16 for 18)
DEX 15 , 7 POINTS (stat bump 4, 8 for 17)
CON 14, 5 POINTS
INT 10, 0 POINTS
WIS 10, 0 POINTS
CHA 13, 3 POINTS (stat bump 20 for 14)

Favored bonus goes to skills= 2class+1Human+1favored= 4per level

Assuming WBL
He would have 0/-2 penalties for TWF a Shield/Cestus

BAB 20+10(18Str+Belt of Physical Perfection+Improved Eldritch Heritage)+5 (Reckless Abandon)+1 (Wpn Fcs)+5+3 (+5 Courageous, Furious, Cruel Large Bashing Shield)+4 (Rage, Furious)-6(Power Attack)-5(Dazing Assault)= Attack of 37 main hand.

Pretty sweet considering Dazing Assault and Power Attack are on.
That's without adding TOUCH OF RAGE.

[XMorsX]

I like your build, especially the use of the eldrich heritage feats. I thought about a similar build recently, trying to combine the twf and improved shieldbash feat trees with the beast totem and the superstitious rage power trees, as well as dazing assault. See what I ended up with, in case it gives you any ideas.

Human Viking Fighter

STR 18 (+1 at 8, 12, 16, 20 lvls)
DEX 16 (+1 at 4 lvl) (early belt of dexterity +2 for ITWF)
CON 16
INT 7
WIS 8
CHA 7

Alternate Racial Traits: Heart of the Fields

Traits: Defender of the Society, Optimistic Gambler

1 TWF, Improved Shield Bash, Power Attack
2 Weapon Focus: Shield
3 Doubleslice
4 Raging Vitality
5 Weapon Specialization: Shield
6 ITWF
7 Shield Slam
8 Rage Power: Superstitious, retrain Doubleslice for Intimidating Prowess
9 Extra Rage Power: Reckless Abandon
10 Rage Power: Lesser Beast Totem
11 Shield Master
12 Rage Power: Beast Totem, retrain Weapons Specialization for Combat Reflexes
13 Extra Rage Power: Greater Beast Totem
14 Dazing Assault
15 Extra Rage Power: Come and Get Me
16 Rage Power: Strenght Surge, retrain Weapon Focus for Improved Sunder
17 Extra Rage Power: Witch Hunter
18 Rage Power: Spell Sunder
19 Extra Rage Power: Eater of Magic
20 Raging Brutality

Basically complete the shield master feat tree, take itwf, combat reflexes and dazzing assault and then take as many rage powers as possible. Come and Get Me is awesome, as well as pounce, reckless abandon and the superstitious feat tree. Strenght surge is there to make the free bullrush and sunder attempts count. Intimidating Prowess just before you are able to intimidate as a swift action.

[Azaelas Fayth]

The thing I see is that by TWF with the Viking is you can get insane defense and still have a good damage later on via Rage, think of something along the lines of a "Hail of Swings" Barbarian Build. If you could squeeze in Quickdraw or similar you could open with a Cestus and draw your Gladius for your off-hand.

Hail of Swings Barbarian:

A TWF Barbarian who uses Rage to boost STR for Damage.

[igotsmeakabob11]

STR Ranger wrote:

Ok I have cleaned this up a bit.

The idea is to Main Hand a LARGE SHIELD and offhand a cestus.
That allows you to 2handed shield bash when you move or AOO, thus getting the 1 to 3 PA Ratio.

Race:
Human- Skilled race feature

Traits- Optimistic Gambler, Defender of the Society

1-Improved Shieldbash, Power Attack
2-Weapon Fcs:Shield,Fearsome
3-Shield Defense +1, TWF
4-Weapon VersatilityBerserker
5- Combat Reflexes
6- Shield Slam, H-Skill Focus:Intimidate
7- Shield Defense +2 Improved TWF
8- Gtr Weapon Focus : Shield
9- Arcane Heritage:Orc Bloodline (lasts 1+1d4rds from trait)
10-Superstition
11- Shield Defense +3,Shield Master
12-Pin down , Retrain Weapon Versatility for Dazing Assault , Skill Focus:Survival
13- Quicken SLA: Touch of Rage
14 Witchunter
15-Shield Defense +4
16-Reckless Abandon, Retrain Pin down for Come and Get Me
17- Improved Eldritch Heritage
18- Doubleslice
19- Armor Mastery Two Weapon Rend
20- Weapon Mastery, Inspire Ferocity

20point buy
STR 16 (14+2human) 5 POINTS (stat bump 12, 16 for 18)
DEX 15 , 7 POINTS (stat bump 4, 8 for 17)
CON 14, 5 POINTS
INT 10, 0 POINTS
WIS 10, 0 POINTS
CHA 13, 3 POINTS (stat bump 20 for 14)

Favored bonus goes to skills= 2class+1Human+1favored= 4per level

Assuming WBL
He would have 0/-2 penalties for TWF a Shield/Cestus

BAB 20+10(18Str+Belt of Physical Perfection+Improved Eldritch Heritage)+5 (Reckless Abandon)+1 (Wpn Fcs)+5+3 (+5 Courageous, Furious, Cruel Large Bashing Shield)+4 (Rage, Furious)-6(Power Attack)-5(Dazing Assault)= Attack of 37 main hand.

Pretty sweet considering Dazing Assault and Power Attack are on.
That's without adding TOUCH OF RAGE.

Weapon Versatility? What's that, and why? Can't find it anywhere.

[STR Ranger]

Weapon Versatility is a human only feat that let's one of your weapon feats apply to all weapons in the same group.
So if you have Weapon Focus: Shield, you now have weapon focus with all weapons in the CLOSE weapon group.

Melee Weapon Mastery is the next version that applies ALL weapon feats to the group.

[Reynolds8050]

I was looking for some fun Twf stuff and I found that the two handed fighter architype at level 7 allows you to add double your strength on damage after the first attack but only with two handed weapons. And the fun part is that there are two handed weapons with the double special ability. Like the quarter staff. This means you can Twf and apply double str to damage.

[Trekkie90909]

For reference it would be better to start a new thread about this instead of raising an old one from 2011; it's a fair bet the people who used to be active on this thread are no longer following it.

Also, while double weapons can be treated as either a two handed weapon, or as a one-handed and light weapon it can't be treated as both in the same round. This means that you'll never be able to TWF with one and apply the double str damage from the two-handed fighter archetype.

Relevant Text:

Double Weapon Property wrote:

A character can fight with both ends of a double weapon as if fighting with two weapons, but he incurs all the normal attack penalties associated with two-weapon combat, just as though the character were wielding a one-handed weapon and a light weapon. The character can also choose to use a double weapon two-handed, attacking with only one end of it. A creature wielding a double weapon in one hand can't use it as a double weapon—only one end of the weapon can be used in any given round.