Hey, just look at some help for how to level up my current alchemist character. Currently i'm working with a second level alchemist elf, lawful neutral and my stats are (our dm chose to let us roll our stats and I got fairly lucky before anyone points out how high they are on average!) :-
Str 14
Dex 18
Con 12
Int 16
Cha 11
Currently i have the weapon finesse feat, and the feral mutagen discovery, my archtypes are vivisectionist/beastmorph.
My idea was to focus on improving and making use of my natural attacks (melee alchemist ala sabretooh/wolverine.), and my original idea was taking a rank of monk next level, allowing me to make unarmed attacks while still being able to use all of my current natural weapons, however i'm running into problems with keeping this idea going without crippling my damage anymore than I have already by going the weapon finesse route, rather than the more obvious barb/alchemist route.
I'm aware of using alchemical allocation to keep a greater magic fang (depending on what caster level my gm will let me buy) active permanently on one or two weapons until I can pay for a permanency spell.
I'm more or less stuck to the core, APG, UC, UM and the bestiary when it comes to choices.
Anyone got any advice for me here falling into these criteria?
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Well you got the best one. For 3K you can get a 20th level alchemical extract of GMF and with the extend potion talent keep it going for 40 hours (cast every other day). I'd personally not worry about natural attacks and just take the improved unarmed / two weapon style, this will make you less dependent on your mutagen, and the GMF only affects one weapon if you want the +5 (otherwise it is +1 to all).
Barkskin +5 (4 hours) and Mage armor (also 40 hours) will go with that AC to make you invincible. Maybe even dip Monk-1 (I hesitate to do it, but it gives you a lot). I would personally keep bombs "online", the 1.75 damage / lvl for sneak attack is usually not worth giving up this option, given your already-good dex. Maybe weapon finessed and eventually an amulet of Agility, or switch Str with dex otherwise (get damage output up with no feats).
I think you really need to look into some way of getting pounce. Getting only one attack with light weapons sucks.
Instead of a level of monk try a level of unarmed fighter. You get improved unarmed strike, +1 bab, and can select a style feat. Dragon style (i can't legally express how much i love that feat) will let you charge through friends and make your first hit hit like a two handed weapon, which is VERY important for you on the surprise round so you can dig your claws into things while they're surprised.
Technically there are no rules for mixing unarmed and natural attacks so you may want to ask your DM how he's doing it. I think the best way to do it is to treat unarmed like a manufactured weapon (which would have no penalty) and make your natural attacks secondary (-5 to hit and 1/2 strength bonus to damage) - That may not be the best idea, especially before you pick up multi attack.
The correct rules are in the beastiary, not the players guide
Creatures with natural attacks and attacks made with weapons can use both as part of a full attack action (although often a creature must forgo one natural attack for each weapon clutched in that limb, be it a claw, tentacle, or slam). Such creatures attack with their weapons normally but treat all of their natural attacks as secondary attacks during that attack, regardless of the attack's original type.
I think you really need to look into some way of getting pounce. Getting only one attack with light weapons sucks.
Instead of a level of monk try a level of unarmed fighter. You get improved unarmed strike, +1 bab, and can select a style feat. Dragon style (i can't legally express how much i love that feat) will let you charge through friends and make your first hit hit like a two handed weapon, which is VERY important for you on the surprise round so you can dig your claws into things while they're surprised. Technically there are no rules for mixing unarmed and natural attacks so you may want to ask your DM how he's doing it. I think the best way to do it is to treat unarmed like a manufactured weapon (which would have no penalty) and make your natural attacks secondary (-5 to hit and 1/2 strength bonus to damage) - That may not be the best idea, especially before you pick up multi attack.
The correct rules are in the beastiary, not the players guide
Creatures with natural attacks and attacks made with weapons can use both as part of a full attack action (although often a creature must forgo one natural attack for each weapon clutched in that limb, be it a claw, tentacle, or slam). Such creatures attack with their weapons normally but treat all of their natural attacks as secondary attacks during that attack, regardless of the attack's original type.
Thanks for the advice, I'll check it out. Pounce isn't a problem to get, beastmoprh would allow me to get it at level 10 in my mutagen form, it's defiantly not something I'd leave out on any melee character I can get it with! :P
Edit:- I believe that's the ruling our gm is following. He's also allowing me to access multiattack on the basis that our synthesist summoner gets it for free anyway.
Well you got the best one. For 3K you can get a 20th level alchemical extract of GMF and with the extend potion talent keep it going for 40 hours (cast every other day). I'd personally not worry about natural attacks and just take the improved unarmed / two weapon style, this will make you less dependent on your mutagen, and the GMF only affects one weapon if you want the +5 (otherwise it is +1 to all).
Barkskin +5 (4 hours) and Mage armor (also 40 hours) will go with that AC to make you invincible. Maybe even dip Monk-1 (I hesitate to do it, but it gives you a lot). I would personally keep bombs "online", the 1.75 damage / lvl for sneak attack is usually not worth giving up this option, given your already-good dex. Maybe weapon finessed and eventually an amulet of Agility, or switch Str with dex otherwise (get damage output up with no feats).
Defiantly need to consider what other potions i can take advantage of, but then again that's the point of this thread, to see if anyone points out anything I missed.
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Bignorsewolf, what would you think of the master of many styles monk archtype? That would allow me to gain the dragon style feat for free, while still getting the 1d6 unarmed damage (not too mention they count as natural weapons for eldritch claws and the like) and the very nice boost to my saving throws. Of course i'd be losing out on flurry of blows, but I really don't need that.
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It's a solid call; there are a ton of monk options to consider, if you lose the rapid you lose the extra attack AND lose the +1 BAB possibility (monks are only full BAB if they have flurry).
I'd personally go standard monk, take Weapon Finesse, Improved Trip, and At 3 get Agile Manuevers (mutagen to dex); 5 you'll be fully online with potion buffs, and can knock someone down with your first attack (the GMF applies here) then tear into them. I'd avoid vivisector; again, Bombs are a GREAT option, given your high dex/int focus, and I don't believe beastmorph/vivi is legal? Even if it is, bombs are great utility as a backup.
It's a solid call; there are a ton of monk options to consider, if you lose the rapid you lose the extra attack AND lose the +1 BAB possibility (monks are only full BAB if they have flurry).
I'd personally go standard monk, take Weapon Finesse, Improved Trip, and At 3 get Agile Manuevers (mutagen to dex); 5 you'll be fully online with potion buffs, and can knock someone down with your first attack (the GMF applies here) then tear into them. I'd avoid vivisector; again, Bombs are a GREAT option, given your high dex/int focus, and I don't believe beastmorph/vivi is legal? Even if it is, bombs are great utility as a backup.
The trip idea is defiantly interesting, I'll look into that, my reasoning for dropping flurry was simply that, it's essnetially giving me a extra attack for -1 too hit. That sounds brilliant but assuming i'm buffed up reasonably for a none prepared fight (move action reduce person, mutagen standard) at 3rd level that'd put my attacks at
dex 24 (mutagen +4 reduce person +2)
that'd give me a total too hit of +9 too hit
While flurrying with multiattack this would be my attacks :-
+8 1d4 +2 (3 on first hit with dragon) x2 +7 1d6+1 and +7 1d4 +1 x2
If I could get sneak attacks, i'd also be getting another 1d6 for each hit. So in a perfect situation assuming flanking bonuses i'd get :-
+10 2d4+4+2d6/+9 2d4+2+2d6,2d6+1
Which I guess isn't bad, but my problem would be keeping it relevant.
edit :-I completely messed that up, my point was losing flurry lowers my attacks but would increase my too hit by 1, and as well all know tons of damage is fine but if you can't hit..
Ofc once i can get cats grace i can drop reduce person for it instead.
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Well, it's weaker low, but look at yourself (at 5) with a amulet of mighty fist (agility) and the GMF potion as your magic items:
Dex 23 (we'll assume you go straight into combat under mutagen, no reduce)
+6 DEX +3 BAB -1 flurry +5 GMW for
D6 +6 (dex) +5 (GMF) +2 (arcane strike). D6 + 13, average 16, *2. I guess if you set up flank this would be +7 as a Vivi. Maybe it's worth giving up the bombs; not certain... they bring good utility, and flank is harder to set up than people think. I guess you could take gang up and have arcane strike @ 7 if you go this route. Your AC and saves should also be great. And depending on interaction between natural / fury (I believe all naturals are -5 to hit?), you can always multi-down that potion as levels go up (since you took extend potion it lasts 40 hours, so switch out every other day and have an 8-hour lag period where one is offline. Or maybe be Str: 16 Dex: 16 and be Str focused... saves you some feats, get a +d6 amulet of mighty fist instead, maybe even just take 1) Improved Unarmed Strike 3) Shield Proficiency 5) Arcane Strike and be a straight alchemist (stay focused); puts you online a little earlier, and makes mutagen better. Usually avoiding multi IS smart.
Edit: just noticed the character is already 2nd level and dex based. I'd stay straight-alc then; @ 3 Improved Unarmed 5 Two-weapon 7 gang up 9 improved two-weapon. If you took vivi you want to keep it up, and you want as many uses of extended 20th level potion as possible.
Bignorsewolf, what would you think of the master of many styles monk archtype? That would allow me to gain the dragon style feat for free, while still getting the 1d6 unarmed damage (not too mention they count as natural weapons for eldritch claws and the like) and the very nice boost to my saving throws. Of course i'd be losing out on flurry of blows, but I really don't need that.
The saves would be the only thing going for it.
The die type on the damage matters very little. The more you level the more bonuses you tack on the less the difference becomes. +1 to hit is worth at least 2 damage, more on that build of yours.
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Something else to consider: since your magic fanging your claws up, you can use an amulet of mighty fists +0 with a damage type on them (electricity, cold, acid) it will add 1d6 to all of your attacks.
Very true bignorsewolf, the interesting point will be if i'll still be allowed to unarmed attack without the specific monk wording backing it up, which i'll have to ask.
Thalin they both sound great but the slight problem is our gm is quite antiquated and will only accept things from the books he actually has, so the agile enchantment is out of the window since it's not in core, apg, um or uc, secondly arcane strike is a hard one since alchemists don't actually get spells so much as extracts. I dobut he'd allow me there sadly.
You rolled your stats. Are they stuck in that order or can you swap your str and dex?