And just because you can’t interrupt with Readied Actions doesn’t mean people aren’t going to use them, since they still have the initial effect of getting shot/stabbed.
I see “I’m pretty sure that one is a spellcaster, if they try anything, shoot them” happening a lot with more intelligent enemies. So you’re gonna get shot at if you cast a spell, and mobility isn’t going to help you there, if you move behind something then you don’t have LoS for your spell anymore.
And then there’s the bonus to saves as well, which I actually think is most valuable. Someone having poison or disease on their attacks, or readying to shoot you with a Tranq gun can be gnarly.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
And just because you can’t interrupt with Readied Actions doesn’t mean people aren’t going to use them, since they still have the initial effect of getting shot/stabbed.
I see “I’m pretty sure that one is a spellcaster, if they try anything, shoot them” happening a lot with more intelligent enemies. So you’re gonna get shot at if you cast a spell, and mobility isn’t going to help you there, if you move behind something then you don’t have LoS for your spell anymore.
And then there’s the bonus to saves as well, which I actually think is most valuable. Someone having poison or disease on their attacks, or readying to shoot you with a Tranq gun can be gnarly.
Here's the thing though: assuming the readied action doesn't interrupt the spell, why would you bother preparing an action to maybe shoot them if you can definately shoot them right now? Possibly even more than once? The 'ol shadowrunner 'geek the mage' principle still applies. The only time I can see this working, is a group of folks going 'I ready an action to shoot the first guy who casts a spell' in situations where you're 1) worried about a spell being cast at you and 2) don't know wich of these space murderhobos is a caster.
Here's the thing though: assuming the readied action doesn't interrupt the spell, why would you bother preparing an action to maybe shoot them if you can definately shoot them right now? Possibly even more than once? The 'ol shadowrunner 'geek the mage' principle still applies. The only time I can see this working, is a group of folks going 'I ready an action to shoot the first guy who casts a spell' in situations where you're 1) worried about a spell being cast at you and 2) don't know wich of these space murderhobos is a caster.And just because you can’t interrupt with Readied Actions doesn’t mean people aren’t going to use them, since they still have the initial effect of getting shot/stabbed.
I see “I’m pretty sure that one is a spellcaster, if they try anything, shoot them” happening a lot with more intelligent enemies. So you’re gonna get shot at if you cast a spell, and mobility isn’t going to help you there, if you move behind something then you don’t have LoS for your spell anymore.
And then there’s the bonus to saves as well, which I actually think is most valuable. Someone having poison or disease on their attacks, or readying to shoot you with a Tranq gun can be gnarly.
If fighting breaks out the moment you see each other then no, there isn't a point to readying an action. The example I gave was if there was a slightly amicable meeting at first that would likely turn violent. Or if guards watching the PCs have order to "shoot them if they try anything". The examples you gave are also valid, don't know who the caster is so wait and focus fire on them.
Or if they're behind cover or if there is a lot of chaos going on with lots of people involved. Instead of going "I shoot the first person that steps out" it's "I shoot the first person that steps out and does something hostile."
In D&D+PF its so much easier to spot the caster.
THAT ONE the one in the robes with the staff! Yeah him with the beard and a owl on his shoulder!
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
The example I gave was if there was a slightly amicable meeting at first that would likely turn violent. Or if guards watching the PCs have order to "shoot them if they try anything".
In my experience, most (though definitely not all) GMs don't allow Readied Actions before the first character declares they want to commit a hostile act. At that point you all roll initiative, and then you can ready an action on your turn.
Is there a rule about this in Starfinder I don't know about?
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
The example I gave was if there was a slightly amicable meeting at first that would likely turn violent. Or if guards watching the PCs have order to "shoot them if they try anything".In my experience, most (though definitely not all) GMs don't allow Readied Actions before the first character declares they want to commit a hostile act. At that point you all roll initiative, and then you can ready an action on your turn.
Is there a rule about this in Starfinder I don't know about?
I'd allow them (and seen them allowed), but I've don't think I've seen a rule stating you can't ready an action outside out of combat in either system to be honest.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I'd allow them (and seen them allowed), but I've don't think I've seen a rule stating you can't ready an action outside out of combat in either system to be honest.The example I gave was if there was a slightly amicable meeting at first that would likely turn violent. Or if guards watching the PCs have order to "shoot them if they try anything".In my experience, most (though definitely not all) GMs don't allow Readied Actions before the first character declares they want to commit a hostile act. At that point you all roll initiative, and then you can ready an action on your turn.
Is there a rule about this in Starfinder I don't know about?
Gotta agree with Rysky here. Why wouldn't someone be allowed to be actively looking out for trouble and react accordingly?
Gotta agree with Rysky here. Why wouldn't someone be allowed to be actively looking out for trouble and react accordingly?I'd allow them (and seen them allowed), but I've don't think I've seen a rule stating you can't ready an action outside out of combat in either system to be honest.The example I gave was if there was a slightly amicable meeting at first that would likely turn violent. Or if guards watching the PCs have order to "shoot them if they try anything".In my experience, most (though definitely not all) GMs don't allow Readied Actions before the first character declares they want to commit a hostile act. At that point you all roll initiative, and then you can ready an action on your turn.
Is there a rule about this in Starfinder I don't know about?
*nods*
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Gotta agree with Rysky here. Why wouldn't someone be allowed to be actively looking out for trouble and react accordingly?
Because you don't get to do that unless you win initiative / get a surprise round. At least, by one approach.
Discussion that introduced me to the idea of rolling initiative without a fight actually having broken out.
Gotta agree with Rysky here. Why wouldn't someone be allowed to be actively looking out for trouble and react accordingly?I'd allow them (and seen them allowed), but I've don't think I've seen a rule stating you can't ready an action outside out of combat in either system to be honest.The example I gave was if there was a slightly amicable meeting at first that would likely turn violent. Or if guards watching the PCs have order to "shoot them if they try anything".In my experience, most (though definitely not all) GMs don't allow Readied Actions before the first character declares they want to commit a hostile act. At that point you all roll initiative, and then you can ready an action on your turn.
Is there a rule about this in Starfinder I don't know about?
The Defiant is technically correct. You can't ready an action outside of tactical combat. You can't enter into tactical combat unless initiative has been rolled.
Otherwise quick draw would be pointless (among many other feats) by a blanket statement of, "Each round I ready an action to draw my weapon if I am able to unless we are in combat."
But you can perform actions outside of combat so I don't see why you can't ready actions to counter those.
And Quick Draw wouldn't be pointless, it shifts drawing from a Move to a Swift.
I would probably not allow someone to ready their actions outside of combat. I guess if they had a target and was just waiting for his move but I'm still hesitant.
So would you always move around with a readied action?
I ready my action to attack the first person that presents themselves to me! by-pass initiative and basically always get a free hit even on surprise rounds.
You don't really understand I think what allowing readied actions outside of combat would do by the rules.
Here is an example:
Player Statement: "I ready to strike at the first sign of trouble when an enemy moves within range."
Surprise Round: "The Rogue has surprise on you! He rushes in!"
Player: "My readied action goes off. I strike at him. My initiative now is moved to before his. I have now acted in combat and am no longer flat footed. My AC increases and his sneak attack is negated."
Big problem with that scenario, the Rogue surprises the player so the PC can't react, cause they're not aware of the thing they're getting attacked by. If the Rogue was just standing around and charged at the PC that would be different, but you can't ready an action and then take a readied action against something you're unaware of.
Frankly I feel like if your readying an action you've already started combat. initiative should of already been rolled.
Frankly I feel like if your readying an action you've already started combat. initiative should of already been rolled.
Rolling initiative every time an action is taken would be needlessly tedious.
Chopping down a locked door? Killing someone in there sleep when there is no one else around? Casting a spell? A creature reading your thoughts/communicating telepathically?
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
People seem to be equating 'allowing players to ready an action in response to something they can clearly anticipate happening in the next few moments' and 'allowing players to spend every single standard action they have outside of combat on negating the quick-draw feat'. Personally, I'd call bull**** on that second one specifically becouse no-one's focus is sharp enough that they can keep alert for every single waking moment.
Also, mechanically that'd mean they forgo every standard action they could've possibly taken when they're not actively fighting. That doesn't seem at all like a workable situation.
Yep.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Letting players ready actions outside of combat should never be allowed. The ONLY purpose for doing so it to subvert the initiative system, and if you allow it in any circumstance you've thrown out the whole point of using initiative and opened the door to extremely cheesy play.
Readying an action is not an action in the way all other actions are. It doesn't represent your character doing something. It represents your character preparing to react to a trigger outside of initiative. If players can do this out of combat, surprise rounds and initiative as a whole ceases to function properly.
If players feel threatened outside of combat, what's stopping them from readying the total defense action triggered by the appearance of the enemy every round they don't need to perform another 'standard' action? If they become aware of an attack in any way (in other words they see an attack coming even an instant before it lands) their full defensive action goes off before the attack. Suddenly they are no longer flat-footed and instead have a bonus to AC against that attack, as well as acting before the enemy next round in initiative.
Why should a DM allow such a blatant exploitation of turn order?Players can tell the DM they "get ready for trouble" all they want. The initiative system still exists. It doesn't matter if you're expecting trouble, initiative determines how quickly you react. If the enemy attacks without player's awareness, it doesn't matter how 'prepared' they are, the enemy still get a surprise round. Abusing a game mechanic standard action outside of combat initiative doesn't somehow nullify the mechanics of surprise and initiative.
Just imagine the results if you allowed NPCs to use readied actions outside of combat. Every enemy NPC would walk around with total defense readied in case of an attack. Every combat, the first player to attack triggers total defense in every enemy who hasn't acted yet before their action goes off, an next round they all act before that player. It's ridiculous.
Initiative exists for a reason. It's not an elegant solution but it's a simple one. Allowing readied actions to override initiative is just opening a meta-gaming can of worms. Either you rule on a case by case basis for when it's allowed and waste game time as players constantly ask for permission to break initiative rules, or you always allow it and give NPCs the same tactics. Of course, NPCs don't have to declare readied actions to the DM, so the players will quickly come to resent what they see as DM cheating when the NPCs always have the ideal actions readied before each combat. It's a no-win situation.
There is no rule that allows readied actions outside of combat by RAW, and nothing to support it by RAI as it directly conflicts with other mechanics.
The ONLY purpose for doing so it to subvert the initiative system, and if you allow it in any circumstance you've thrown out the whole point of using initiative and opened the door to extremely cheesy play.
Reacting to an obvious trigger that you are aware of is not cheesy.
If players can do this out of combat, surprise rounds and initiative as a whole ceases to function properly.
Not really, or at all. Readying an action doesn't make you omnipotent. You can still be surprised. Other creatures can take other actions that don't activate the designated trigger.
If players feel threatened outside of combat, what's stopping them from readying the total defense
Nothing, or rather there's nothing stopping them from moving in a constant Total Defense, but that will severely slow things down, reminds me of having to check every 5ft square for traps the first couple times I played in a dungeon.
If they become aware of an attack in any way (in other words they see an attack coming even an instant before it lands)
That is represented by them being surprised or not, if they're surprised, it doesn't work.
It doesn't matter if you're expecting trouble, initiative determines how quickly you react.
No it determines what order you go in combat, seeing as how it doesn't matter how high you get on a initiative roll if I get a surprise round I'm still going before you. With Readied Actions if you are aware, not flat footed, and the trigger is met you act on it.
If the enemy attacks without player's awareness, it doesn't matter how 'prepared' they are, the enemy still get a surprise round.
Exactly. Surprise Rounds and catching players unaware trumps Readied Actions
Every enemy NPC would walk around with total defense readied in case of an attack.
They don't need to Ready, they can just walk around in Total Defense, spooked guards on high alert usually do so. That's where getting a surprise round would come in handy.
Every combat, the first player to attack triggers total defense in every enemy who hasn't acted yet before their action goes off, an next round they all act before that player. It's ridiculous.
Yes, and they've successfully spent their entire action doing nothing but guard themselves if you didn't get the drop on them. It's called Fall In and it's something a squad would probably do.
Allowing readied actions to override initiative
That's Readied Actions entire point.
is the players meta-game is just opening a can of worms.
"I don't know what's in here so I'm going full defense as I slowly do a sweep of the room" is not metagamey.
Either you rule on a case by case basis for when it's allowed and waste game time as players constantly ask for permission to break initiative rules
I do rule on a case by case basis, and it doesn't slow the game down at all, granted I've never had a player try to make their character incompetent through the use of constant and frivolous readied actions.
Of course, NPCs don't have to declare readied actions to the DM, so the players will quickly come to resent what they see as DM cheated when the NPCs always have the ideal actions readied before each combat. It's a no-win situation.
If I have an NPC in Full Defense I describe them as much, A guard walking around vs a guard walking around with their shield up and cautiously eyeing eyeing every corner and door adds to the atmosphere rather than detracts. I don't pull "gotcha" moments on my players.
There is no rule that allows readied actions outside of combat by RAW
There's no rule allowing and no rule disallowing it.
and nothing to support it by RAI as it ruins other game mechanics.
I completely disagree with this. Letting PCs and NPCs react to things they are aware of and capable of reacting to isn't ruining game mechanics, it's working within them. Yes a player might come up with something too open ended for a trigger to be reasonable, and that's where you as the GM adjudicate.
You cannot ready an action outside combat because you cannot change in initiative when there's no initiative.
If a readied action occurs outside of combat you have an initiative of - and the person who triggered your specified RA has an initiative of -
Regardless, changing your initiative is an additional effect of the Readying an action, but it is not the main purpose.
Combat casting has far more utility than you're giving it credit for.
There are going to be times where you can't take a guarded step and avoid an AoO if you're trying to cast.
Back against a wall (or whatever you were using for cover before the guy with the sword appeared in your face), surrounded by enemies, reach are all examples where that's applicable. All of them mean having the bonus to not fail the spell is important.
You could of course choose not to bother with that feat, but then there's no reason to be complaining when you're caught in the situations outlined above.
1. Don't trap yourself in an alclove so that the only square of exit can be blocked by an enemy.
2. Don't guarded step, use a full move action and pick Mobility (+4 AC) instead of Combat Casting (+2 AC).
3. (If a Technomancer) Cast a touch spell that doesn't provoke.
4. If you're seriously trying to cast a spell while surrounded by multiple enemies who are going to get AoOs, just LOL rather than believe that a +2 AC is going to do much to prevent you from getting hit at least once in enough circumstances for this to matter.
5. (If a Technomancer of sufficient level) Take Flash Teleport as a magic hack.
|
You cannot ready an action outside combat because you cannot change in initiative when there's no initiative.If a readied action occurs outside of combat you have an initiative of - and the person who triggered your specified RA has an initiative of -
Regardless, changing your initiative is an additional effect of the Readying an action, but it is not the main purpose.
In that case I'll point out that ready an action is part of the tactical rules, in which actions types are described as: An action’s type essentially tells you how long the action takes to perform within the framework of a 6-second combat round.
I stand by my words: you cannot ready an action when not in initiative, as you're not in the framework of 6-second combat rounds while you're not in initiative.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I'd allow them (and seen them allowed), but I've don't think I've seen a rule stating you can't ready an action outside out of combat in either system to be honest.The example I gave was if there was a slightly amicable meeting at first that would likely turn violent. Or if guards watching the PCs have order to "shoot them if they try anything".In my experience, most (though definitely not all) GMs don't allow Readied Actions before the first character declares they want to commit a hostile act. At that point you all roll initiative, and then you can ready an action on your turn.
Is there a rule about this in Starfinder I don't know about?
It's a combat action, there's no need for a rule saying you can't do it outside of combat.
But you can perform actions outside of combat so I don't see why you can't ready actions to counter those.
You can't perform combat actions outside of combat. Ready Action is a combat action. You can only declare a readied action on your initiative count in combat. Otherwise everyone in a social situation is just constantly declaring readied actions. How do we resolve which goes off first? We roll initiative, and then you regret your readied action, because you either get to go first, allowing you to have picked any action you want, or you go second, making your readied action potentially redundant.
Deciding to ready an action is meaningless, it doesn't mean you can interrupt or preempt anything. It means you can interrupt or preempt anything that happens after the initiative count on which you choose to ready.
Ready an Action
You can prepare to take an action when a certain trigger occurs by using a standard action. Decide on a standard, move, or swift action and a trigger. You can take the action you chose when the trigger happens. This changes your initiative count to the current initiative count for the remainder of the combat. If you used a reaction on your previous turn and then chose to ready an action, you still regain your reaction at the beginning of your original turn, not when you take your readied action.
You have to spend a standard action to ready. You do that...on your initiative count. Your initiative count happens...when you're already in combat. This then changes your initiative count...for the remainder of combat. Because combat already began, and you already had your first turn occur, which you used to Ready Action.
You can't ready an action outside of combat. Weirdly, the Ready an Action section appears in a part of the book called "Actions in Combat."
Something that people are ignoring, if you are taking a move and a standard action every round you are hustling.
There are penalties to hustling.
The problem takes care of itself.
"Hustle
A hustle is a jog (about 6 miles per hour for an unencumbered human). A character moving his speed twice in a single round, or moving that speed in the same round that he or she performs a standard action or another move action, is hustling when he or she moves."
"Hustle
A character can hustle for 1 hour without a problem. Hustling for a second hour in between sleep cycles deals 1 point of nonlethal damage, and each additional hour deals twice the damage taken during the previous hour of hustling. A character who takes any nonlethal damage from hustling becomes fatigued.
A fatigued character can’t run or charge and takes a penalty of –2 to Strength and Dexterity. Eliminating the nonlethal damage also eliminates the fatigue."
So a character moving around constantly redying actions takes a total of:
0 1 2 4 8 16 32 64 = 127 non lethal damage in an 8 hour day.
If they are awake and out and about for longet that number skyrockets.
9: + 128= 255
10: + 256 = 511
11: + 512 = 1023
12: + 1024 = 2047
I reckon that most characters are dead by this point.
Even if you take a break for lunch in the middle of your day, the cycle picks up from where you left off the second you start hustling again
You cannot ready an action outside combat because you cannot change in initiative when there's no initiative.If a readied action occurs outside of combat you have an initiative of - and the person who triggered your specified RA has an initiative of -
Regardless, changing your initiative is an additional effect of the Readying an action, but it is not the main purpose.
In that case I'll point out that ready an action is part of the tactical rules, in which actions types are described as: An action’s type essentially tells you how long the action takes to perform within the framework of a 6-second combat round.
I stand by my words: you cannot ready an action when not in initiative, as you're not in the framework of 6-second combat rounds while you're not in initiative.
”It’s in Tactical Rules and therefore cant be used out of combat” is not a good argument, since that forbids a LOT of actions from taking place.
I'd allow them (and seen them allowed), but I've don't think I've seen a rule stating you can't ready an action outside out of combat in either system to be honest.The example I gave was if there was a slightly amicable meeting at first that would likely turn violent. Or if guards watching the PCs have order to "shoot them if they try anything".In my experience, most (though definitely not all) GMs don't allow Readied Actions before the first character declares they want to commit a hostile act. At that point you all roll initiative, and then you can ready an action on your turn.
Is there a rule about this in Starfinder I don't know about?
It's a combat action, there's no need for a rule saying you can't do it outside of combat.
But you can perform actions outside of combat so I don't see why you can't ready actions to counter those.
You can't perform combat actions outside of combat. Ready Action is a combat action. You can only declare a readied action on your initiative count in combat. Otherwise everyone in a social situation is just constantly declaring readied actions. How do we resolve which goes off first? We roll initiative, and then you regret your readied action, because you either get to go first, allowing you to have picked any action you want, or you go second, making your readied action potentially redundant.
Deciding to ready an action is meaningless, it doesn't mean you can interrupt or preempt anything. It means you can interrupt or preempt anything that happens after the initiative count on which you choose to ready.
”You can’t perform combat actions out of combat” is a horrible argument, as then you can’t even attack outside of combat. That creates quite a few problems.
“Otherwise everyone in a social situation is just constantly declaring readied actions”
Why would they? You can’t become omnipotent with Readied Actions and you can’t have more than one active so there should only be one they have going unless conditions change. If your players are being frivolous with them then that’s your job as a GM to adjudicate.
“We roll initiative, and then you regret your readied action, because you either get to go first, allowing you to have picked any action you want, or you go second, making your readied action potentially redundant.”
That’s the gamble when readying Actions. They might not trigger.
”It’s in Tactical Rules and therefore cant be used out of combat” is not a good argument, since that forbids a LOT of actions from taking place.You cannot ready an action outside combat because you cannot change in initiative when there's no initiative.If a readied action occurs outside of combat you have an initiative of - and the person who triggered your specified RA has an initiative of -
Regardless, changing your initiative is an additional effect of the Readying an action, but it is not the main purpose.
In that case I'll point out that ready an action is part of the tactical rules, in which actions types are described as: An action’s type essentially tells you how long the action takes to perform within the framework of a 6-second combat round.
I stand by my words: you cannot ready an action when not in initiative, as you're not in the framework of 6-second combat rounds while you're not in initiative.
Actions in the tactical rules can of course be used out of combat if there is no opposition that you are combatting. It's just like rolling initiative for just your party and taking actions in that order. But since you're not fighting anyone, you skip that part as pointless bookkeeping. If there are enemies, however, you apply the combat rules to determine who goes first and how those actions are resolved in what order.
You can't perform combat actions outside of combat.
Actions in the tactical rules can of course be used out of combat if there is no opposition that you are combatting.
...?
If there are enemies, however, you apply the combat rules to determine who goes first and how those actions are resolved in what order.
Surprise Rounds throw a kink in that already.
[”You can’t perform combat actions out of combat” is a horrible argument, as then you can’t even attack outside of combat. That creates quite a few problems.
“Otherwise everyone in a social situation is just constantly declaring readied actions”
Why would they? You can’t become omnipotent with Readied Actions and you can’t have more than one active so there should only be one they have going unless conditions change. If your players are being frivolous with them then that’s your job as a GM to adjudicate.
“We roll initiative, and then you regret your readied action, because you either get to go first, allowing you to have picked any action you want, or you go second, making your readied action potentially redundant.”
That’s the gamble when readying Actions. They might not trigger.
[Tense diplomatic standoff, people fingering their weapons.]
Player: I ready an action to shoot that technomancer if he casts a spell.
GM: Ok.
[Someone makes a violent move.]
GM: Roll for initiative. Ok, the enemy technomancer won, he starts casting a spell.
Player: Aha! I get to shoot him.
GM: Actually, no. The technomancer had readied an action to cast a spell if anyone initiated combat. Since you both readied actions (in fact, everyone in the enemy group readied an action in case combat broke out), I'm resolving them in order of initiative.
Player: But that makes readied actions outside of combat pointless!
GM: Now you get it.
If you think Readying Actions auto begin combat then the Technomancer would have already started it with theirs, making their action pointless. Also setting a trigger as “whoever starts initiative” is far too opened ended and metagmey and not something I would allow.
So in that scenario which is it? You can or cannot use Readied Actions Outside of combat? You’re trying to use both to justify your position and it isn’t really working.
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
”You can’t perform combat actions out of combat” is a horrible argument, as then you can’t even attack outside of combat. That creates quite a few problems.
This is actually by the rules.
If you want to attack you roll initiative and go into the 6-second combat rounds as described in the tactical rules.
The other person not aware of you attacking him? Surprise round.
The other person aware that you are attacking him, then there's a chance he'll beat you in initiative.
By that reasoning you can’t use spells or special abitlies outside of combat. Only skills. Which just isn’t true.
”You can’t perform combat actions out of combat” is a horrible argument, as then you can’t even attack outside of combat. That creates quite a few problems.This is actually by the rules.
If you want to attack you roll initiative and go into the 6-second combat rounds as described in the tactical rules.
The other person not aware of you attacking him? Surprise round.
The other person aware that you are attacking him, then there's a chance he'll beat you in initiative.
Actually it's not, since I haven't seen anything that says you can't attack/cast a spell outside of combat, and the combat rules themselves just simply state "when combat begins".... when does it begin? That's not me being existential, the Starfinder Core rulebook says "after initial steps that begin a combat" in How Combat Works and then in Beginning and Ending Combat it syas "The GM determines when combat begins and ends, [i]often by telling the players to roll iniative checks"
Edited to be slightly less clunky.
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Technically it's true.
For spellcasting read page 334: Casting Time.
For special abilities see page 262.
Except there are certain scenarios in which the initiative goes like this (4 player party for example)
Player 1 (technomancer), initiative 12
Player 2 (soldier), initiative 18
Player 3 (envoy), initiative 5
Player 4 (solarian), initiative 9
There are no enemies.
Round 1:
Soldier: I delay
Technomancer: I start casting Private Sanctum.
Solarian: I delay
Envoy: I delay
Round 2:
Soldier: I still delay
Technomancer: I'm now on round 2 of 60 of casting Private Sanctum
Envoy: I still delay
Solarian: I still delay
Etc.
To cut down on this unnecesary bookkeeping initiative is skipped and the spell is simply cast.
The same goes for special abilities and skills and other actions except actions that require opposition.
As soon as there's opposition which also gets placed in initiative you get access to ready an action because there's initiative that can be determined to make sure you can react to a trigger that happens on a different initiative count.
I'm not trying to win anything.
The action "Cast a spell" section goes over what action it is to actually cast a spell and simply says for more information about spells and how they work see chapter 10. By your logic you can't cast a spell outside of combat since the action to cast a spell is in the Tactical Rules chapter.
"You can do any magical effect that would not be considered an attack outside of combat."
The rules do not state this anywhere.
|
By that reasoning you can’t use spells or special abitlies outside of combat. Only skills. Which just isn’t true.
Nope. The two spellcasting classes have this line "You can cast any mystic (technomancer) spell you know at any time, assuming you have not yet used up your allotment of spells per day for the spell’s level."
Are you seriously arguing that you should be able to attack people outside of combat? Certainly there may be rare situations, but those are, by default, handled by the GM and are by no means assumed. You should never assume you can attack someone without entering into combat. That is just silly.”You can’t perform combat actions out of combat” is a horrible argument, as then you can’t even attack outside of combat. That creates quite a few problems.This is actually by the rules.
If you want to attack you roll initiative and go into the 6-second combat rounds as described in the tactical rules.
The other person not aware of you attacking him? Surprise round.
The other person aware that you are attacking him, then there's a chance he'll beat you in initiative.Actually it's not, since I haven't seen anything that says you can't attack/cast a spell outside of combat, and the combat rules themselves just simply state "when combat begins".... when does it begin? That's not me being existential, the Starfinder Core rulebook says "after initial steps that begin a combat" in How Combat Works and then in Beginning and Ending Combat it syas "The GM determines when combat begins and ends, [i]often by telling the players to roll iniative checks"
Edited to be slightly less clunky.
Um, yeah, that's what tends to start combats. There's also coup de gracing someone in their sleep or sniping someone. And I haven't assumed you're not in combat after attacking someone.
|
|
Not being able to act in a surprise round helps partially, but what about circumstances where it's just a normal "roll for initiative" we all pull out our guns and start firing. My understanding of initiative is that it's supposed to simulate who's quicker on the draw when everyone is trying to act simultaneously. If you can ready an action to circumvent that, it seems to muddy those waters quite a bit.
As a player it would be frustrating if I have a +10 bonus to initiative, roll a 20 on initiative check and attack the enemy, only to hear "he readied an action to move away behind cover if you draw your weapon." What's the point of a high initiative if everyone can ready actions to go before you?
By that reasoning you can’t use spells or special abitlies outside of combat. Only skills. Which just isn’t true.Nope. The two soellcssting classes have this line "You can cast any mystic (technomancer) spell you know at any time, assuming you have not yet used up your allotment of spells per day for the spell’s level."
Yep. And all the classes have rules for using their special abilities, some of which are attacks. I was arguing against the idea that there's actions you can only take in combat.