So um.
You made an angry post about something that was on the internet for five whole minutes, just to show how right you are in proving my original point that 3e's hiding rules are really dumb?
The rules are not dumb, it makes perfect sense. And actually I am not angry at all I am simply replying to your posts:
I believe your original stance was that stealth without cover or concealment was impossible which, as the rules I posted from CA prove, is not at all the case. You then changed your stance to say, the now quite possible, rules for using Stealth outside of cover/concealment were very punishing, which, by numeric example, I also showed to be not really true. You also believed that you can hide in the light using both cover and concealment, which again I simply answered saying that was incorrect. At which point, you accused me, in a rather rude and mocking manor, of not knowing what I was talking about, which I have now proven to be false as well. That last stance you changed to merely a squabble about whether a character should be able to use this particular skill use at lvl 1 rather than lvl 2, which I addressed as a simple and acceptable learning curve for a new character.
And now that I think of it you posted in a very similar manor on another thread I have been keeping up with. Not that it's important.
Thanks? I think.
You are quite welcome.
But yeah, 3e has some really crippled rules for stealth. RAW, characters with Hide/Stealth are less capable than I (meaning the dude sitting in this chair typing this statement) am, and I'm a fairly clumsy guy. It's basically impossible to sneak up behind someone without magic.
Well the game can't be a perfect representation of reality. But I tend to play Stealth focused characters and I would say you are wrong about their lack of ability.
As for it being impossible to sneak up behind someone without magic I would say: Well it's a good thing there is magic then and EVERY class relies on magic to some extent. But just for the sake of debate:
Lvl 10 example
Rogue's Stealth: 10 Ranks + 3 Class skill + 6 Dex mod + 4 Sneaky + 6 Skill Focus = +29 without magic.
I would say that is pretty good considering the average NPC's Perception at the same lvl would be between +8 and +14. So even without magic the Rogue has a 15 - 21 point advantage over the average guy who might be looking for him and that is without even digging into 3.5 materials for mundane ways to increase your Stealth. This advantage the Rogue has is only going to increase at each lvl and with each ability score increase he throws into Dex.
More interesting discussion about Stealth rules.
Hello again! As I said, I'm not really willing to continue being off-topic about this; let me know if you decide to make a thread and we can discuss it some more. :]
Don't know if you have seen it or not but HERE YOU GO _ TO, he created a thread for the discussion.
Don't know if you have seen it or not but HERE YOU GO _ TO, he created a thread for the discussion.
Yeah, I've been watching the post-count go beserk over the past couple of days. He was right about that, at least. O_o
I distinctly remember an episode of the teenage mutant ninja turtles when the group was disarmed and had to improvise. Raphael's improvised weapons of choice were sporks.
I love Raphael.
"Damn! I lost a sai!"
Don't know if you have seen it or not but HERE YOU GO _ TO, he created a thread for the discussion.Yeah, I've been watching the post-count go beserk over the past couple of days. He was right about that, at least. O_o
Well, unless I am just completely delusional, I think I have a pretty good grasp of Stealth. When and where I can use it and what I need to be able to use it. It seems though that a lot of people (I hope I am not one of them) horribly misinterpret a lot of things regarding Stealth. Or really don't know all the rules and how they apply. So, I am not surprised at the post count on that thread either. I have not read through them all, and don't intend to. I will post my thoughts though and reply to anything I see that is directed at me.