Can it be taken on a Diplomacy/Bluff/Intimidate check....
Gut feeling says no unlike Perception ("don't see it...don't see it...ah its under that rock")
RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32
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Can it be taken on a Diplomacy/Bluff/Intimidate check....
Gut feeling says no unlike Perception ("don't see it...don't see it...ah its under that rock")
Clearly taking 20 on Diplomacy is a romantic comedy waiting to happen-19 days of horrible failure followed by optimal success.
Can't take 20 on Diplomacy?
Bart & Lisa: Can we go to Krustyland?
Homer: No.
Bart & Lisa: Can we go to Krustyland?
Homer: No.
Bart & Lisa: Can we go to Krustyland?
Homer: No.
Bart & Lisa: Can we go to Krustyland?
Homer: No.
Bart & Lisa: Can we go to Krustyland?
Homer: No.
Bart & Lisa: Can we go to Krustyland?
Homer: No.
Bart & Lisa: Can we go to Krustyland?
Homer: No!
Bart & Lisa: Can we go to Krustyland?
Homer: No!
. . .
<hours later>
. . .
Bart & Lisa: Can we go to Krustyland?
Homer (increasingly desperate): No!
Bart & Lisa: Can we go to Krustyland?
Homer (finally giving in): OK!
Bill, that is so funny! I almost gave the same example, using myself and my kids in place of Homer and his. Except I couldn't decide if that was Diplomacy or Intimidate!
"are we there yet?"
"no"
"are we there yet?"
"no"
"are we there yet?"
"no"
"are we there yet?"
"no"
"are we there yet?"
"no"
"are we there yet?"
"NO!"
One of the funniest bits in The Incredibles (a fantastic movie all around) was Mr. Incredible responding to the kids with "We'll get there when we get there!" as if they'd already been irritating him. I've been there a few times. I also sometimes declare "I'm reaching back there and I don't care who I hit!" Of course, the kids know I'm kidding on that one so they laugh, but it usually shuts them up.
Can it be taken on a Diplomacy/Bluff/Intimidate check....
Gut feeling says no unlike Perception ("don't see it...don't see it...ah its under that rock")
Leaving out Gather Information, neither of these things will really be eligible for Take 20 because Take 20 basically means failing 19 times (the first attempts badly) before succeeding, and all three skills tend to have consequences for failure.
You basically make 20 attempts, in order: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5.
Imagine Bluff. The teacher asks you if you did your homework (which you did not) and, in case you didn't (which is the case), why that is.
Has everyone done his homework?
1: NO! Uh, I mean, yes, of course (sweats profusely, falling out of chair out of nervousness)
2. Yes. But... ALIENS stole it. I swear it's true. They walked in and took them, saying they need it to defeat Emperor of Space Slarg. I swear if even one word I said is true I may be struck down by god. (the lamp falls from the cealing and hits you in the face)
And so on. Around 6 or so is "my dog ate it".
At 20, you indeed give an excuse that would have swayed the teacher (something about your grandmother falling down and breaking several bones right in front of you, which forced you, of course, to get help, but you don't have a phone and your parents weren't home, so it took time for you to get an ambulance, and of course it was really harrowing all around, so naturally you were in no state to make homework).
I said "would have", because after sitting through 19 lies - many of them way beyond ridiculous, he is not inclined to start believing you, since you obviously kept trying excuses until one worked - otherwise you would have told him about your grandmother at once.
Intimidate is similar, while you might eventually come up with the idea to insinuate that by the time the guard has been called, his blood would already have run out and his sweet little daughter would have been misused in more ways than her young mind could ever recover from (or something similarly intimidating that will convince the guy that you're not to be trifled with), you started with "do what I want or I run away crying and complain to my mother about you!" (We're not talking about children intimidating one another here, but about, say, a racketeer gathering protection money for the Outfit or whatever.) And he laughed you out of the store before calling the guard on you, the thought that you could be dangerous never once crossing his mind.
With diplomacy, observe that failure has a penalty, too: Failing an attempt to improve one's attitude towards you by too much and you actually make matters worse. So you want to woo the subject of all your desires. Take 20 doesn't work. The 20 might eventually constitute saying exactly the right thing in the right tone to make her fall in love with you, you start with something like "You're not too ugly, I think I could stick it to you without having to fight back the vomit too much, so get naked and let's get it over with, you pig in heat" In other words, she'll go from politely ignoring you to tasing some of the more tender bits of your anatomy while calling the police.
So even if you took the 20 days it takes to make 20 attempts to change someone's attitude (only one per day), it won't work.
Requests cannot be repeated at all (though I'd say you could always up the odds by offering better compensation. That would probably be a different request, though).
Gather Information can work, but note that this will take 20d4 hours.
Gather Info normally takes 1d4 hours, but this Judge shortens that to a roll every hour if all the characters are doing it (it's the way he likes to do it), so, if they Take 20 it takes them 20 hours.
As you note, Diplomacy for gathering information specifically allows retries, so it should be fine (although it would take 20d4 hours).
Intimidate is an odd case, since failures increase the DC for 1 hour. But I would rule that you could take 20 on Intimidate if you devoted 20 hours to it.
Bluff also has special rules. To deceive someone, you might be able to take 20 but it would be the equivalent of taking 10 because of the -10 penalty for repeated attempts. You can take 20 normally for passing secret messages, though.
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[You basically make 20 attempts, in order: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5.
Just as an aside, I've never liked this interpretation of taking 20. Say the DC for a 1 round skill is 30, and the character has a +15 to the check. By the 1,2,3,.. interpretation, success is achieved on round 15-so why keep trying?
I've always preferred to interpret it as rolling a 1 nineteen times followed by a 20.
Pan Handler standing on a corner. Taking 20 to get a few coppers, could be using Diplomacy or Bluff... or maybe Intimidate (Deseased Begger comes to mind). Depending on how many people go by in an hour he might be able to take 20 every hour...
That's not really taking 20 (i.e. trying 20 times against the same target); that's making 20 attempts against 20 different targets which is perfectly fine.
Pan Handler standing on a corner. Taking 20 to get a few coppers, could be using Diplomacy or Bluff... or maybe Intimidate
Nope. Profession check.
[You basically make 20 attempts, in order: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5.
Just as an aside, I've never liked this interpretation of taking 20. Say the DC for a 1 round skill is 30, and the character has a +15 to the check. By the 1,2,3,.. interpretation, success is achieved on round 15-so why keep trying?
I've always preferred to interpret it as rolling a 1 nineteen times followed by a 20.
Well, it is an abstraction. Why indeed is there "take 20" but not "take whatever you need to succeed?" When you know the DC for something is 15 over your bonus, why can't you take 15 rounds?
That said, "Take up to 20" is a decent house-rule.
If the task/mission is to get 3 C.P. from a passer by using Bluff - I would think you could take 20.
Not really. In that case, I'd say there is a penalty for failure. You tell a really bad lie to swindle someone out of some dosh, the guy sees through it, and sics the watch on you.