I was hoping I could get some input from people more familiar with the 3PP material out there.
I'm playing a half-orc natural weapon ranger in a Kingmaker campaign and I've been looking for interesting ways to play with the natural weapon style.
Can anyone point me to some books that have feats, alternative rules, or archetypes that lend themselves to helping PCs that focus on natural attacks? I'm not opposed to splashing levels in a different class, so support for barbarians, summoners, alchemists, or anyone else that gets to mess about with natural attacks is definitely welcome!
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I was hoping I could get some input from people more familiar with the 3PP material out there.
I'm playing a half-orc natural weapon ranger in a Kingmaker campaign and I've been looking for interesting ways to play with the natural weapon style.
Can anyone point me to some books that have feats, alternative rules, or archetypes that lend themselves to helping PCs that focus on natural attacks? I'm not opposed to splashing levels in a different class, so support for barbarians, summoners, alchemists, or anyone else that gets to mess about with natural attacks is definitely welcome!
I did almost the same thing for a PFS game. Half Orc ranger2 then switch to barbarian at 3rd to pick up lesser fiend totem. That gives you 2xClaw,Gore, and a bite.
Ultimate Combat has some pretty good style feets in it that let you not even need natural weapons. Boar Style, for example lets you prettymuch mimic having claws, with it letting you rend and bleed with your fists.
IMHO, tho, a straight barbarian is the best way to go.
at 10th level, a half orc Beast Totem barbarian is a living missile.
Belier's Bite
Improved Unarmed Strike
Power Attack
Improved Natural Attack Claws
All 3 beast totem rage powers
Rhino Hide Armor.
If yer not afraid to munchkin, it's the only way to go imho.
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I was hoping I could get some input from people more familiar with the 3PP material out there.
I'm playing a half-orc natural weapon ranger in a Kingmaker campaign and I've been looking for interesting ways to play with the natural weapon style.
Can anyone point me to some books that have feats, alternative rules, or archetypes that lend themselves to helping PCs that focus on natural attacks? I'm not opposed to splashing levels in a different class, so support for barbarians, summoners, alchemists, or anyone else that gets to mess about with natural attacks is definitely welcome!
I did almost the same thing for a PFS game. Half Orc ranger2 then switch to barbarian at 3rd to pick up lesser fiend totem. That gives you 2xClaw,Gore, and a bite.
Ultimate Combat has some pretty good style feets in it that let you not even need natural weapons. Boar Style, for example lets you prettymuch mimic having claws, with it letting you rend and bleed with your fists.
IMHO, tho, a straight barbarian is the best way to go.
at 10th level, a half orc Beast Totem barbarian is a living missile.
Belier's Bite
Improved Unarmed Strike
Power Attack
Improved Natural Attack Claws
All 3 beast totem rage powers
Rhino Hide Armor.
If yer not afraid to munchkin, it's the only way to go imho.
Eh, not a fan of the Barbarian route, too vulnerable. A simple calming-type spell and you lose all your natural attacks and are pretty useless for awhile.
I was hoping I could get some input from people more familiar with the 3PP material out there.
I'm playing a half-orc natural weapon ranger in a Kingmaker campaign and I've been looking for interesting ways to play with the natural weapon style.
Can anyone point me to some books that have feats, alternative rules, or archetypes that lend themselves to helping PCs that focus on natural attacks? I'm not opposed to splashing levels in a different class, so support for barbarians, summoners, alchemists, or anyone else that gets to mess about with natural attacks is definitely welcome!
Fairly soon here, Little Red Goblin Games is going to be releasing the Shaper class, which (aside from coming packaged with a cool race) allows you to make a character filled to the brim with natural attacks, as well as being able to dynamically change shapes on the fly. The best part is, having worked on it, I can tell you that multi-classing into it works fairly well, and its unique flavor allows for the DM to have some fun with it too.
Expect it in October, when we're also releasing the Tome of the Bizarre.
(I am allows to advertise here, right?)
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half-orc Ranger 2, Barbarian x. 2 claws from Ranger bonus feat, bite from toothy alternate race trait, gore (when raging) from fiend totem rage power. Now start dumping into strength and get an amulet of mighty fists which applies to all four attacks. This is ahead at low levels and stays competitive at higher levels in terms of damage.
half-orc Barbarian x. Two handed weapon gaining iterative attacks, bite, and gore. You will need to take multi-attack and will be weaker early on. However, once you reach your 3+ iterative attacks (11th level ouch) you should start pulling ahead of the straight natural weapon barbarian. However, you will need an amulet of mighty fists and a well enchanted weapon (wallet ouch).
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half-orc Ranger 2, Barbarian x. 2 claws from Ranger bonus feat, bite from toothy alternate race trait, gore (when raging) from fiend totem rage power. Now start dumping into strength and get an amulet of mighty fists which applies to all four attacks. This is ahead at low levels and stays competitive at higher levels in terms of damage.
half-orc Barbarian x. Two handed weapon gaining iterative attacks, bite, and gore. You will need to take multi-attack and will be weaker early on. However, once you reach your 3+ iterative attacks (11th level ouch) you should start pulling ahead of the straight natural weapon barbarian. However, you will need an amulet of mighty fists and a well enchanted weapon (wallet ouch).
If you are dead set on using the Barbarian class then you need to take Beast Totem not Fiend.
Yes you are trading out the Gore for a redundant set of claws while raging but that is not important. You take Beast totem to get Pounce at 10th level. This keeps your damage output and hit chance high and works with every melee option you want to explore.Beast Totem is really the only choose if you plan to take more than 10 levels of Barbarian.
As Math there knows full well. It's work to take a look at Feral Combat and Imp. Unnarmed. They work like a charm and increase your number of attacks considerably.
If you go that route, you can get Dragon Style and wreak serious havoc.
Something else... how does Belier's Bite REALLY work? I haven't found any FAQ or ERRATA regarding this.
Best Natural Weapon Combo:
Invulnerable Rager 12 with a dip into Martial Artist for Imp Unarmed, Combat Reflexes & Flurry. Feats at 13 are Pow Attack, Wep Focus (claws), Imp Natural (claws), Feral Combat (claws), Panther Style Tree. Rage Powers are Beast Totem tree, Reckless, Clear Mind, Come Get Me. Get Perm Enlarge. See if you can convince your GM to let you use Lead Blades to target your claws, then get a ring of spell storing or as a perma buff. Rhino Hide, Amulet of Mighty Fists, Str + Dex + Wis gear, Haste etc. Best Trait is Latent Psion (+2 vs mind affects). You also have 6/- DR at this point.
Combat: Panther Style (swift action). CaGM (free action). Charge the guy at the back of the pack so as to provoke a bunch of AoOs. Each AoO gives you a Retaliatory Panther Strike and a CaGM AoO. You hit everyone for 2 of your claw attacks before they get to hit you back. Your claws do: 2d6 from Enlarge and Greater Beast Totem, 2d8 from Imp Nat, 4d6 if you can swing Lead Blades (or something similar). 4d8 + 2xStr + 2xPA is probably going to kill most mooks, and 8d6 will definitely do it. Then you hit with your charge. Pounce for full attack, Hasted Flurry of Claws: +11/+11/+11/+6/+1 all doing 2d8 (or 4d6) + Str + PA + enchants. S@%+ dies.
If you wanna troll your DM, swap Clear Mind for Knockdown. Then swap trip for your 1st attack in the flurry. Yum for prone beats.
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Best Natural Weapon Combo:
Invulnerable Rager 12 with a dip into Martial Artist for Imp Unarmed, Combat Reflexes & Flurry. Feats at 13 are Pow Attack, Wep Focus (claws), Imp Natural (claws), Feral Combat (claws), Panther Style Tree. Rage Powers are Beast Totem tree, Reckless, Clear Mind, Come Get Me. Get Perm Enlarge. See if you can convince your GM to let you use Lead Blades to target your claws, then get a ring of spell storing or as a perma buff. Rhino Hide, Amulet of Mighty Fists, Str + Dex + Wis gear, Haste etc. Best Trait is Latent Psion (+2 vs mind affects). You also have 6/- DR at this point.
Combat: Panther Style (swift action). CaGM (free action). Charge the guy at the back of the pack so as to provoke a bunch of AoOs. Each AoO gives you a Retaliatory Panther Strike and a CaGM AoO. You hit everyone for 2 of your claw attacks before they get to hit you back. Your claws do: 2d6 from Enlarge and Greater Beast Totem, 2d8 from Imp Nat, 4d6 if you can swing Lead Blades (or something similar). 4d8 + 2xStr + 2xPA is probably going to kill most mooks, and 8d6 will definitely do it. Then you hit with your charge. Pounce for full attack, Hasted Flurry of Claws: +11/+11/+11/+6/+1 all doing 2d8 (or 4d6) + Str + PA + enchants. S#+& dies.
If you wanna troll your DM, swap Clear Mind for Knockdown. Then swap trip for your 1st attack in the flurry. Yum for prone beats.
Great, except that I don't think you're supposed to be able to get more than one AoO off of the same action from the provoker, though I don't have the time to try and cite this
That's the best part of Panther style: you don't get an AoO, instead you get a "retaliatory unarmed strike", which Feral Combat Training says you can make with your claw. You get one AoO from CaGM and one retaliatory unarmed strike from Panther.
Another great monk/barb combo is Beast Totem with Janni Rush. Make a jumping charge with full attack. Every time you hit, roll twice the number of damage dice, then add all the other bonuses. Deals crazy damage, esp if you can get up to max claw damage at 4d6. At Level 11, you can make a hasted flurrying pouncing charge, 5 attacks at 8d6 + Str + PA each, is crazyness.
That's the best part of Panther style: you don't get an AoO, instead you get a "retaliatory unarmed strike", which Feral Combat Training says you can make with your claw. You get one AoO from CaGM and one retaliatory unarmed strike from Panther.
Another great monk/barb combo is Beast Totem with Janni Rush. Make a jumping charge with full attack. Every time you hit, roll twice the number of damage dice, then add all the other bonuses. Deals crazy damage, esp if you can get up to max claw damage at 4d6. At Level 11, you can make a hasted flurrying pouncing charge, 5 attacks at 8d6 + Str + PA each, is crazyness.
Premise: My english is not so good, so i'm not responsable for mistakes in the text...
@Luke: As i could read and i learned thanks to you and your build, i make that one.
I hope that your popcorn are ready ,the seat confortable and warm, and begin to enjoy the most dangerous and fearful 6 seconds of a life monster… I Promise that the movie will be good.
Build: Invulnerable Rager 20
Race: Half-Orc (Cavewight, Toothy, Skilled)
Alignment: lvl 1-2 Lawful Good / Lvl 3 – up: Chaotic Good
Theme - NO ONE CAN SURVIVE AFTER A CHARGE!! RAGH!
Classes:
02 - Monk: Master of Many Styles, Hungry Ghost Monk
12 – Barbarian: Invulnerable Rager
03 – Ranger: Infiltrator
03 – Fighter: Brawler
Ability Scores: Rolled in 4d6 discarding the less one or 28 points if buying (I know that is higher than the allowed, but I liked my rolls xD)
STR: 16 (+2) 18 (4 points to Str 22)
DEX: 14
CON: 14
INT: 7
WIS: 10
CHA: 16 (1 point to Cha 17 on lvl 16)
Skills =
Monk : 4-2(INT) +1(Skilled) = 3per level
Barbarian : 4-2(INT) +1(Skilled) = 3per level
Ranger : 6-2(INT) +1(Skilled) = 5per level
Fighter : 2-2(INT) +1(Skilled) = 1per level
Traits:
Strong Will : +1 Will saves
Optimistic Rager : Rage lasts 1d4 extra Rounds
Level Progression:
01 Mnk Improved Unarmed Strike Punishing Kick Janni Style Dragon Style
02 Mnk Evasion Dragon Ferocity
03 Bbn Rage Janni Tempest
04 Bbn Beast Totem, Lesser - Power
05 Rgr Improved Natural Attack
06 Rgr Weapon Focus (Claw)
07 Rgr Multiattack Skill Focus (Survival)
08 Ftr Feral Combat Training
09 Ftr Close Control +1 Eldritch Heritage (Orc Bloodline) Eldritch Claw
10 Ftr Close Combatant +1 hit/+3 dmg
11 Bbn Improved Elditch Heritage (Orc Bloodline)
12 Bbn Reckless Abandon - Power
13 Bbn Quicken Spell-Like Ability
14 Bbn Beast Totem - Power
15 Bbn Janni Rush
16 Bbn Superstitious - Power
17 Bbn Greater Elditch Heritage (Orc Bloodline)
18 Bbn Beast Totem, Greater - Power
19 Bbn Greater rage Combat Reflexes
20 Bbn Come and Get Me - Power
Now I will explain every part of the Build: Racial Traits, Traits, the Classes, Feats and Powers.
1)Racial Traits:
Cavewight: As I will take later Skill Focus (Survival), to make him more suitable, the bonus to Survival and Knowledge (dungeoneering) seems pretty good with the PC profile.
Toothy: I’m not so fool to waste the Animal Fury Power on him to get the Bite only while raging, and I could get even faster the Multiattack Feat, that is pretty nice…
Skilled: since I have a -2 on Intelligence score, the extra 1 skill point is really needed…
2)Campaign Traits:
Strong Will: I have low Will Base, and I wouldn’t put a lot of Wisdom neither.
Optimistic Rager: 1d4 rounds more in Rage Combat and (broken rule) on Touch of Rage are pretty cool during the day.
3)Classes:
Monk: I found the MoMS more suitable for the roleplay and by the way for the opportunity to get the 4 firsts feats in just 2 levels, not counting the level 1 based.
Monk: I found the HGM more suitable for the Punishing Kick, which raise the DC by the time and not stop like Stunning Fist at monk’s levels.
Barbarian: Of course I will take the Invulnerable Rager, as I only will get 12 levels, I have to maximize the toughness of the truck I’m going to show…
Barbarian: Don’t even forget the Drunken Brute. Normal Movement Speed, but I really like drinking potions as a move action…
Ranger: The infiltrator is pretty nice, especially with the Natural Weapon Style, is a free Weapon Focus (Claw) and thanks to the Elf Favored enemy, by the way, it is really possible thanks to the ate toward Elves and Drows… And the cool Skill Focus (Survival) instead of the favored terrain, is pretty cool for meet the prerequisites of Eldritch Heritages of the Orc Bloodline.
Fighter: Unlike the most of ppl like more the Unarmed Fighter, I found that with the Brawler I will get +1 to attack rolls and +3 on damage, which is pretty cooler and useful than +1/+1 of the 5th level UF… So: 2 levels minus and more stats… I wanna have it!!!
The rest: IS PURE DAMAGE AND KILLS… And of Course, Role play…
4)Feats:
Dragon and Janni Style Paths, excluding the Dragon Roar (a waste if you are not a good monk or have Elemental Fist too, with a lot of monks levels…
Eldritch Heritages: Well, 5 feats hurt a lot, but is pretty cool dumping your strength to 46 just with a +6 enhancement bonus… IT ROCKS and IT SMASHES A LOT!!
Natural Attack Feats: Well, since the Beast Totem Power allow me 2 free claws attacks and I have a lot of unarmed strikes due to the monk, I will combine every bonus with those strikes and the new claws.
Eldritch Claws: I took this one instead to get lvl 4 monk for the KiFocus, because I don’t really like to use 2 levels and get the ki Magic improvement unless I have 1 ki point available… It sucks, if there are a lot of enemies and I could not destroy them with only 4 ki points at lvl 4 with 14 on WIS… Even more, as I don’t have the Flurry of Blows I don’t really need the +4 AC just 4 times in a day…
Combat Reflexes: I know that there are many better feats, but just think in something: I’m a destroyer truck, I have to be sure that I will hit him as many times as I can in the first round and trying to kill him asap or leaving it nearly death and allow my party to finish him. So, the +4 AoO, instead of the normal one, just having -1 to AC thanks to the Janni Style, I’m pretty sure that I will hit him a lot and really hard.
Power Attack: I know that a Barbarian w/o this feat is like a Wizard w/o metamagic feats, but I don’t really need it, thanks to the Reckless Abandon Power.
5)Powers:
Now there is the part of the Truck Mode On:
a)Beast Totem, Lesser: Since there will be the first 2 levels of barbarian before ranger and fighter, I will need the 3 natural attacks to get multiattack, the weapon focus (free), and then continuing with the Feral Combat Training and Eldritch Claws (both free) and get the most of the build out in just 9 levels.
b)Reckless Abandon: as I would not take Power attack, and I’m going to make a good charge and try to smash your brain and what else more, I will have to put more damage as possible in the next levels, as the CR are growing and more HP to drain…
c)Beast Totem: The free +4 Nat Armor at lvl 12 Barbarian, plus the DR 6/- is pretty nice helping the barb stay alive. Since I just save the Amulet of Natural Armor, and get the AoMF instead.
d)Superstitious: since I won’t have the highest saving throw and we get already lvl 16, more spellcasters and more spell like abilities monster are coming, I will need now I little push on the ST.
e)Beast Totem, Greater: Now it is where the party goes on: I’m level 18, BAB 17, it mean that I have 4 US at normal BAB, 2 claws and a bit at +15 BAB starts thanks the Multiattack Feat.
f)Come and Get Me: Enemy would like to hit me and will have bonuses? Don't care, I will hit you again...
So: I really love this power in the sequence.
Let me explain the combat rounds:
Round 1: Using the move action to drink the Lead Blades potion, that affects all my attack (I LOVE IT) and then grow thanks to the Power of Giants Heritage (10 rounds, just 1 wasted, don’t matter), and finally use the swift action to enter the styles. Meanwhile the caster is firing a good haste and possibly a Barkskin if someone carries it.
Round 2a: Rage as a free action, charge with the Hulk Jump and, in the middle of the jump, a good quickened Touch of Rage, and puff +10 to hit, dmg and will… Just Amazing xD…
Try to figure out that: The 1st Hulk’s Movie’s Bruce Banner, a pretty tough guy that in the middle of the jump’s arc, it becomes a fearsome Hulk without the green skin, unless it could be possible the color change… lol…
Round 2b: I’m getting on the monster with 5 unarmed strikes and 3 natural attacks, all of it at +12 bonus to the hit and +10 on dmg.
It seems Rocky 6 when He could just make the most damage as possible in just one hit: The Real Truck
Combat Stats:
Strength: 28 base + 6 rage + 6 belt + 6 size (PoG) = 46 Total. It’s a +18 bonus without even have been read tomes.
Constitution: 14 base + 6 rage + 6 belt + 4 size (PoG) = 30 Total. It’s a +10 bonus, like 200 HP without the dices…
Dexterity: 14 base + 6 gloves - 2 size (PoG) = 18 Total. It’s +4 bonus to AC and 4 AoO/Round.
AC: 10 base + 4 Dex + 11 Mithral Rhino Chain Mail + 4 Nat + 5 Deflection - 1 Size – 5 Charge+RA = 30… I will be hit a lot, but I hope to make the most damage output as first opportunity…
Saving Throws Base: FORT: +17 REF: +11 WILL: +10
To Hit:
- US: BAB 19 + 18 STR + 1 CC + 5 AoMF + 10 ToR + 2 Charge - 1 Size + 1 Haste: +55 Total. Nice to See…
- Unarmed Strikes Then: +55/+55/+50/+45/+40 = I think I will hit at least 3 times.
- NA: BAB 19 + 18 STR + 1 CC +1 WF + 5 AoMF + 10Tor + 2 Charge - 1 Size + 1 Haste – 2 Multiattack: +54 Total.
- Natural Attacks Then: +54/+54/+54 (Two Claws and a Bite) = If I hit the last 3, I will hit again…
Damage:
- US: base dmg: 6d6 (Janni Style Charge) + 5 AoMF + 10 ToR + 36 Str + 3 CC + 4 RAP + 7 RCM = 86 on the first hit.
- US: base dmg: 6d6 (Janni Style Charge) + 5 AoMF + 10 ToR + 27 Str + 3 CC + 4 RAP + 7 RCM = 77 on the others.
- Claw: base dmg: 8d6 (Janni Style Charge) + 5 AoMF + 10 ToR + 27 Str + 3 CC + 4 RAP + 7 RCM = 84 for each Claw.
- Bite: base dmg: 2d8 (Janni Style Charge) + 5 AoMF + 10 ToR + 27 Str + 3 CC + 4 RAP + 7 RCM = 65 for the Bite.
- If we make homework: 86 + 77x2 + 84x2 + 65 = Just 473!!! If I don’t overpass the DR: 15 each (epic) it would be 90 minus: 383 HP less in just a charge and this is w/o Criticals, because I don’t really know how the math would be there...
But the movie won’t finish already…
If he is still alive, I will activate the CaGM power (free action) after I finish the pounce, because I don’t wanna take damage before the pounce action. By the Way, I'm Large and I have 10 feet reach.
In the begin of the monster turn, each attack he will make, I will get an AoO and because I have all the previous bonuses still active, and thanks to Feral Combat Training, I can make the AoO with the Claw, I will hit again with the same hit and dmg…
Now, with 3 attacks, are almost 200 dmg again, more 300, there is no monster that can sustain so much alive…
I will put the background in a new post and I will put the full guide… Thanks for Watching.
Note: I will be pleased of any suggestion and advices, always is a cool way to learn more…