Master of the Fallen Fortress Advice wanted

[raven73]

Hi All,

I just played the above module and on the last turn of the game, the fighter died due to getting hit by Tassak.

Tassak hit him with the Master Work Scimitar, causing 14 points of damage.

Tassak sword states MWK Scimitar +6 (1D6+2/18-20), does this mean Tassak adds +6 to all roles when using this weapon? Seems a bit excessive as it would kill most 1st Level Pc's with just one hit.

Thanks

Lee

[Abciximab]

The +6 is added to his d20 roll to see if he hits a target, his damage is 1d6+2 if he hits. (3-8 dmg per hit). To do 14 points of damage it would have to have been a crit(6-16 dmg). In my experience most GMs will tell you when an enemy scores a crit, but there are those that do not.

[raven73]

Abciximab wrote:

The +6 is added to his d20 roll to see if he hits a target, his damage is 1d6+2 if he hits. (3-8 dmg per hit). To do 14 points of damage it would have to have been a crit(6-16 dmg). In my experience most GMs will tell you when an enemy scores a crit, but there are those that do not.

Yes it was a Crit and because the Fighter already had only 4 hp's he had to make a fortitude save (failed) and thus died because he took more than 50% damage.

Pretty harsh but I guess it can be quite brutal at 1st level.

[DeathQuaker]

I ran part of Master of the Fallen Fortress as a demo--didn't get to that particular fight, but I remember noting some of the fights seemed pretty brutal for a 1st level party, especially one full of people new to the game. I remember toning down some of the fights.

The thing with that particular fight is that I think by that point, you hopefully also have the help of an NPC? But I can't remember off the top of my head if that's true.

[Abciximab]

raven73 wrote:

Yes it was a Crit and because the Fighter already had only 4 hp's he had to make a fortitude save (failed) and thus died because he took more than 50% damage.

Pretty harsh but I guess it can be quite brutal at 1st level.

Ouch. That's one reason I have never used the Massive Damage optional rule. At 1st level, it's easy to take more than half your total HP in damage.

[Sean K Reynolds]

raven73 wrote:

Yes it was a Crit and because the Fighter already had only 4 hp's he had to make a fortitude save (failed) and thus died because he took more than 50% damage.

Pretty harsh but I guess it can be quite brutal at 1st level.

Actually, the massive damage rule only applies if the damage taken is at least 50 hit points:

Massive Damage (Optional Rule): If you ever sustain a single attack that deals an amount of damage equal to half your total hit points (minimum 50 points of damage) or more and it doesn't kill you outright, you must make a DC 15 Fortitude save. If this saving throw fails, you die regardless of your current hit points. If you take half your total hit points or more in damage from multiple attacks, no one of which dealt more than half your total hit points (minimum 50), the massive damage rule does not apply.

So a 10hp fighter who takes 5 or more points of damage doesn't need to make a massive damage save.
A 100hp fighter who takes 50 or more points of damage does need to make a massive damage save.

(The massive damage rule is in the game to add some realism of "that dragon's breath weapon would have instantly killed an ogre, even if the ogre saved, and you didn't even flinch, there should be some penalty for that amount of damage." Personally, I think it's a dumb rule, and I don't use it.)

[raven73]

Sean K Reynolds wrote:

raven73 wrote:

Yes it was a Crit and because the Fighter already had only 4 hp's he had to make a fortitude save (failed) and thus died because he took more than 50% damage.

Pretty harsh but I guess it can be quite brutal at 1st level.

Actually, the massive damage rule only applies if the damage taken is at least 50 hit points:

Massive Damage (Optional Rule): If you ever sustain a single attack that deals an amount of damage equal to half your total hit points (minimum 50 points of damage) or more and it doesn't kill you outright, you must make a DC 15 Fortitude save. If this saving throw fails, you die regardless of your current hit points. If you take half your total hit points or more in damage from multiple attacks, no one of which dealt more than half your total hit points (minimum 50), the massive damage rule does not apply.

So a 10hp fighter who takes 5 or more points of damage doesn't need to make a massive damage save.
A 100hp fighter who takes 50 or more points of damage does need to make a massive damage save.

(The massive damage rule is in the game to add some realism of "that dragon's breath weapon would have instantly killed an ogre, even if the ogre saved, and you didn't even flinch, there should be some penalty for that amount of damage." Personally, I think it's a dumb rule, and I don't use it.)

Ah, that does change things some what. The Party's Cleric killed Tassak, the very next turn.

I think I'll rule that the fighter was found to be still alive and with a bit of rest is back in action for the next adventure.

[gbonehead]

Sean K Reynolds wrote:

The massive damage rule is in the game to add some realism of "that dragon's breath weapon would have instantly killed an ogre, even if the ogre saved, and you didn't even flinch, there should be some penalty for that amount of damage." Personally, I think it's a dumb rule, and I don't use it.

It's actually an optional rule in Pathfinder, isn't it? I never used that rule, even under 3.5e. These days it would not be a huge issue, but there was a period where it could have resulted in multiple saves vs. death in every combat.

In addition, one of my house rules for 3.5e was that death was at -level hit points (but at least -10), rather than at a flat -10. The way I see it, if you've got enough hit points, that teeny window from 0 to -10 hp is easy to miss when things are dealing well over 20hp damage per strike.

Doesn't mean nobody ever bites it, but if a PC is under 100hp and and they don't die until -50 or so, that's a pretty decent margin and they've got a decent chance of surviving until help is given.

The Pathfinder version (you die at -Con) is okay, but doesn't scale as well for high levels.