Dual Cursed Oracle of the Dark Tapestry


Advice


There is a group I will be joining starting Pathfinder and I would like some advice. I was looking at the classes and abilities and this seems to be one I would enjoy and has the potential to be fairly useful. The DM isnt going to be ruthless on us, given that several of the players are new (I'm still new, only had a few sessions with a previous character before it disbanded because people weren't showing up), so you will see several choices that I want to make geared towards role playing rather than efficiency. If anyone is interested, I can post the character background I am working on and could get some advice on that, but that would be later.

This character would likely be played as a Debuffer, so that is my goal with these choices.

I do have some questions that would effect gameplay, however. How exactly does stealth work? I understand the basic concept behind it, and I saw the sniping section, but how does spellcasting work with stealth? Can you remain hidden as you cast spells (I understand that having a fireball streak out from your position would be a giveaway, but what about a mind effecting spell?). Also, what about Supernatural Abilities, such as the Revelations, can I use those from hiding and not be seen? It seems that this set up will be more efficient if I can do that. The Cloak of Darkness seems to promote hiding and casting spells/using skill from the hiding spot.

For the Misfortune Revelation, can you use it on allies? It only mentions creatures, which means I would be using it... a lot. If I could also use it on players, I would be able to help them by using it when they roll poorly to try and boost their combat abilities.

Can the Fortune Revelation be used more than once on a single roll? For example, if I am crafting something and I roll poorly. I use Fortune and still don't roll well enough, could I use an additional use to try a third time?

Race: Human (if the DM allows Aasimar, I would go with that instead)
Archetype: Dual Curse
Curse 1: Clouded Vision (chosen more for RP reasons)
Curse 2: Haunted (This one won't advance)
Diety: Norgorbor
Alignment: Lawful Neutral (RP Choice again)
Inflict Spell set

Traits:
Trait 1: Focused Mind or Theoretical Magician
Trait 2: Jaded (RP Choice), Deft Dodger, or Resilient
Swap one of the above with... Lost Nobility (RP again... but seems so useless)

Feats:
I am honestly not sure what to take here, especially at early levels. I would eventually like to take Craft Magical Arms and Armor, but I do not think that is important right now (the Fortune Revelation would help though). In some ways, I want to pick up an Exotic Weapon proficiency and get a Falcata, but I do not see myself running headfirst into combat, making that choice seem foolish. Heighten Metamagic may be useful for making the early spells harder to resist, but is it worth it?

Skill Choice
Stealth, Intimidate (or Diplomacy), Spellcraft
Are there any others I should work towards? If I remain at 10 Int, I should be able to get one more skill.

Revelations: These were the early ones I was thinking of taking. Anyone have advice on a different order/different Revelations to take?
Level 1: Misfortune
Level 3: Gift of Madness
Level 5: Fortune
Level 7: Cloak of Darkness

Spells: I have no idea what to take.
I know I should get some Cure spells, but I do not want to be the primary healer (and I think someone else is already planning to)
Here are some that I thought may be useful...
Level 1: Murderous Command (combined with the ability to confuse people from the Revelations...)
Level 1: Doom
Level 1: Burning Disarm (used in Conjunction with Oracle's Burden, which will now cause items to drop further away, withdrawing a stored item to take a standard action, and reduce their sight to 30ft)

There are some spells that seemed like fun to use for Roleplaying purposes.... like Enter Image. As I... sorta stated earlier, my character is an ex-noble. If he were to able regain his nobility (and take the Leadership feat), I would try to convince the DM to grant my character some land. As he would still be an adventurer, I would like to then appoint a Seneschal. Being able to maintain contact with the Seneschal through the Enter Image spell would be an interesting ability. The spell is rather limited in range though. Is there a similar spell with much more range (at level 20, its only 1000 ft)?

Equipment:
Weapon: As I mentioned before, I am tempted to go with a Falcata, but that seems pointless in some ways. A weapon cord may be a good additional item to take... to try and counter Haunted.
Shield: Buckler... so I can use the shield still while casting spells with that hand/use a wand.

Also, if I am allowed, Wrist Sheath, for drawing the Wands I can use quicker.
I wanted to save for a Wand of Cure Light Wounds if I didnt take that as a spell.


Wow, that's a lot to cover in one post. Since no one else has, let me see what I can offer.

Azurelink wrote:
I do have some questions that would effect gameplay, however. How exactly does stealth work? I understand the basic concept behind it, and I saw the sniping section, but how does spellcasting work with stealth? Can you remain hidden as you cast spells (I understand that having a fireball streak out from your position would be a giveaway, but what about a mind effecting spell?). Also, what about Supernatural Abilities, such as the Revelations, can I use those from hiding and not be seen? It seems that this set up will be more efficient if I can do that. The Cloak of Darkness seems to promote hiding and casting spells/using skill from the hiding spot.

"How exactly does stealth work?" Hehe, what a loaded question here on the boards. Stay tuned to the blog, there is a apparently a revision to the Stealth rules due out in the next week or or so that is supposed to make things clearer. In any case, casting spells while hidden will most likely break stealth, especially if they have Verbal components (which must be spoken in a strong voice). If you have the deafness curse however this won't apply. Supernatural abilities don't have components, but if they're a standard action they may still break stealth. Depends on the final text of the revision and (more importantly) what your DM says.

Azurelink wrote:
For the Misfortune Revelation, can you use it on allies? It only mentions creatures, which means I would be using it... a lot. If I could also use it on players, I would be able to help them by using it when they roll poorly to try and boost their combat abilities.

Nothing that says you can't, good thinking. The daily limit of once per target still applies though.

Azurelink wrote:
Can the Fortune Revelation be used more than once on a single roll?

No, because you can normally only take a single Immediate action per turn.

Azurelink wrote:

Revelations: These were the early ones I was thinking of taking. Anyone have advice on a different order/different Revelations to take?

Level 1: Misfortune
Level 3: Gift of Madness
Level 5: Fortune
Level 7: Cloak of Darkness

I'd consider swapping around your level 3 & 7 choices. Gift of Madness isn't all that hot until 7th level because of the 1 round duration. Meanwhile, the Cloak of Darkness will be more useful earlier on, giving you decent armor and that bonus to Stealth which will also be nice early on. I'd also consider the Extra Revalation feat and take Pierce the Viel, so that you can see in the darkness you'll be looking to take advantage of.


Just wanted to say that I have a dual-cursed oracle in PFS, and everyone loves the Misfortune ability. Its like we're all wearing faction t-shirts!

Grand Lodge

A lot depends on the makeup of your party. Is someone else going to handle healing? The inflict spells are touch, so I would be hesitant to go down that road. In act, I'd be hesitant to specialize in defuffing unless every other potential emphasis was covered.

Do not take aasimar. The +2 to Wisdom doesn't offset the loss of the human favored class ability which allows you extra spells known.

I would recommend finding out what everyone else is planning, because I think you're likely to gimp yourself. You have a high Charisma and you could take advantage of that through UMD or as the party face, but you need to decide that up front.


The Aasimar idea was, to some degree, RP related. But yes, I see your point, the extra spells would be much more useful.

I was debating on taking the Inflict spells as it would give me spells that deal damage. Unfortunately, it doesn't grant me the ability to snipe with spells, like I wanted to... but I don't even know if that is possible yet to begin with.

Grand Lodge

Azurelink wrote:
I was debating on taking the Inflict spells as it would give me spells that deal damage. Unfortunately, it doesn't grant me the ability to snipe with spells, like I wanted to... but I don't even know if that is possible yet to begin with.

I wouldn't waste a lot of time trying to snipe with spells. Unless I missed something with Dark Tapestry, you aren't going to get sneak attack damage, it won't affect saving throws, and it won't make ranged touch attacks that much easier. As a DM, I would treat anything which would break invisibility as breaking stealth. Sniping is tough to arrange for a rogue, so it would be doubly so for a caster.

I have to run for a game, but I know that the 3.5 rules stated that you knew when someone cast a spell on you. That may have changed for Pathfinder, but I would be somewhat surprised if it did.


The preliminary revisions for the Stealth skill (read them here) state that any standard action basically breaks Stealth. Sniping also isn't possible with spells because it's a special Standard action. That said however, you might be able to cast a touch spell, hold the charge, and then sneak up on someone to deliver it to their flat-footed touch AC (AC - Dex - Armor - Shield - Natural Armor = Very low AC). That said, I wouldn't try to base a character around that one little trick.

Still, nothing wrong with your concept per se, I rather like the idea of a spellcaster who tries to stick to the shadows. If I were DMing, I'd certainly give appropriate modifiers to casting silently and the like to your Stealth checks (or more likely, to Perception trying to pinpoint you). Right now though that is definitely DM's discretion.


What about using Quickened spells? It is a swift action now so the spell isnt a standard action and if I have silent spell (or, for that matter, Deaf Curse), I do not see it revealing my location (according to the Stealth rules... swift actions take a stealth check and without the verbal component, there is technically no sound).

I'd have to talk the DM either way though heh.

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