Kirth or anyone else, what and where is 'Arcane Boost'?
Chapter 5, under "Arcane Feats."
Constructs and vermin are both missing from any of the lists, so I'd put constructs under Lore, vermin under Survival and maybe have giants under Warfare.
Vermin should be under Survival.
Constructs are already listed under Spellcraft.Giants I hadn't quite decided, so I'm open to suggestions. (Nor am I sure that giants should just be "uncivilized humanoids," for that matter, or whether they should go back to their own type like in 3.5).
Ah yes. They are indeed under Spellcraft.
I suggested Warfare because they're thematically similar to uncivilised humanoids and because the people most skilled with siege equipment and other anti-monster devices are going to be those with ranks in Knowledge (warfare).
Kirth or anyone else, what and where is 'Arcane Boost'?Chapter 5, under "Arcane Feats."
Got it, but as Boost Arcane. I blame word search functions...
I took a look at the list of favoured enemies, which is quite an interesting selection, but you seem to have omitted lawful outsiders (unless they're in the outsider [other] category) and the extensive shapechanger subtype. You've also listed "Outsiders (elemental) and elementals", when "Outsiders (air, cold, earth, fire and water)" would have been much more inclusive.
I would have merged chaotic outsiders and shapechangers (and maybe lycanthropes too), since the first are often the second, and then merged aberrations with oozes (and other aquatic horrors), simply because evil outsiders are already very extensive. An alternative outsider grouping could be Outsiders (cordian & native), from an old Planescape term referring to all lawful, chaotic and true neutral outsiders (PF's inevitables, aeons and slaad.)
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So what is the best method for getting a deadtree version of this, Kinkos?
I find this site to be quick, inexpensive, and convenient.
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So what is the best method for getting a deadtree version of this, Kinkos?I find this site to be quick, inexpensive, and convenient.
28.99, shipped any USA address. I think their prices have gone up a bit recently, but still, not bad.
Thank you!
How do you treat rage Int penalty in tactical combat? Do you, after certain amount, say: you can't take preemptive actions. If it increases: you can't take AoOs at all. And with brutal penalty (INT<4): you can only charge?
Another question. What do you think about favored class option that grants you +1 bonus to weak save (can be taken up to good save amount)?
Still would like that bard table of spells most useful for bardic inspiration.
How do you treat rage Int penalty in tactical combat? Do you, after certain amount, say: you can't take preemptive actions. If it increases: you can't take AoOs at all. And with brutal penalty (INT<4): you can only charge?
None of these. An animal (Int 2) can be quite cunning -- see lions stalking prey together. A raging barbarian (Int 2) can be quite cunning as well, just not overly-intellectual, and he's not going to be talking much beyone grunts and yells.
Another question. What do you think about favored class option that grants you +1 bonus to weak save (can be taken up to good save amount)?
I would ALWAYS take that over 1 hp or 1 skill point, so it wouldn't be "an" option; it would be "the" option.
Still would like that bard table of spells most useful for bardic inspiration.
I still would like a winning lottery ticket, but I'd settle for a Vietnamese restaurant within an hour drive of me. Anyway, tables don't format well on the messageboards, but here it is:
Inspiration - Source - Spell Equivalent - College - Spell Level
Chant of the Long Road - Complete Scoundrel - Invigorate(APG) - Fochlucan - 1st
Dirge of Doom - Core Rulebook - Doom - Fochlucan - 1st
Fascinate* - Core Rulebook - Hypnotism - Fochlucan - 1st
Fortune’s Favor - Ultimate Combat - Divine favor - Fochlucan - 1st
Goad - Adventurer’s Handbook (SGG) - Incite action (MH) - Fochlucan - 1st
Glorious Epic - Advanced Player’s Guide - Distract assailant (CAd) - Fochlucan - 1st
Harmless Performer - Advanced Player’s Guide - Sanctuary - Fochlucan - 1st
Satire - Advanced Player’s Guide - Bane - Fochlucan - 1st
Sustaining Song - Complete Adventurer - Stabilize - Fochlucan - 1st
Derring-Do - Ultimate Combat - Cat’s grace - Mac-Fuirmidh - 2nd
Disappearing Act - Advanced Player’s Guide - Invisibility - Mac-Fuirmidh - 2nd
Discordant Voice - Ultimate Combat - Sonic weapon (CAd) - Mac-Fuirmidh - 2nd
Encourage Failure - Dragon magazine #337 - Qualm (UC) - Mac-Fuirmidh - 2nd
Inspire Competence - Core Rulebook - Divine insight (CAd) - Mac-Fuirmidh - 2nd
Inspire Fury - Races of Stone - Rage - Mac-Fuirmidh - 2nd
Keep Your Heads - Advanced Player’s Guide - Eagle’s splendor - Mac-Fuirmidh - 2nd
Lamentable Belaborment - Advanced Player’s Guide - Daze monster - Mac-Fuirmidh - 2nd
Motivate Urgency - Miniatures Handbook - Lively step (PGF) - Mac-Fuirmidh - 2nd
Raid Tactics - Adventurer’s Handbook (SGG) - Surmount affliction (UM) - Mac-Fuirmidh - 2nd
Still Water - Advanced Player’s Guide - Stormrunner’s ward (SW) - Mac-Fuirmidh - 2nd
Suggestion* - Core Rulebook - Suggestion - Mac-Fuirmidh - 2nd
Whistle the Wind - Advanced Player’s Guide - Gust of wind - Mac-Fuirmidh - 2nd
Bladethirst - Advanced Player’s Guide - Greater magic weapon - Doss - 3rd
Frightening Tune* - Core Rulebook - Fear - Doss - 3rd
Mockery - Advanced Player’s Guide - Bestow curse - Doss - 3rd
Pedantic Lecture - Advanced Player’s Guide - Confusion or dazzlesphere (AUG) - Doss - 3rd
Rain of Blows - Ultimate Combat - Haste - Doss - 3rd
Slumber Song - Advanced Player’s Guide - Heightened deep slumber - Doss - 3rd
Sound the Retreat - Advanced Player’s Guide - Displacement - Doss - 3rd
Grant Move Action - Miniature’s Handbook - Blessing of fervor (APG) - Canaith - 4th
Inspire Greatness - Core Rulebook - Ward the faithful (APG) - Canaith - 4th
True Confession - Advanced Player’s Guide - Discern lie or detect thoughts - Canaith - 4th
Wearying Dance - Complete Scoundrel - Waves of fatigue - Canaith - 4th
Inspire Greatness - Core Rulebook - Greater heroism - Cli - 5th
Mass Slumber Song - Advanced Player’s Guide - Symbol of sleep - Cli - 5th
Mass Suggestion* - Core Rulebook - Mass suggestion - Cli - 5th
Scandal - Advanced Player’s Guide - Song of discord - Cli - 5th
Battle Song - Advanced Player’s Guide - Mass rage - Anstruth - 6th
Mass Bladethirst - Advanced Player’s Guide - Greater legion’s magic weapon (MH) - Anstruth - 6th
Song of the Fallen - Advanced Player’s Guide - Summon monster VI - Anstruth - 6th
Warning Shout - Complete Scoundrel - Aura of evasion (DN) - Anstruth - 6th
Call the Storm - Advanced Player’s Guide - Control weather - Ollamh - 7th
Soothing Performance* - Core Rulebook - Mass cure serious wounds - Ollamh - 7th
None of these. An animal (Int 2) can be quite cunning -- see lions stalking prey together. A raging barbarian (Int 2) can be quite cunning as well, just not overly-intellectual, and he's not going to be talking much beyone grunts and yells.
Ok.
I would ALWAYS take that over 1 hp or 1 skill point, so it wouldn't be "an" option; it would be "the" option.
I would always take favored enemy and critical focus over 1 hp or sp. Make it 1/2 of save maybe? I'll probably use this, cause it will be no magic items campaign (at least until 7-8th lvl or so). So no cloaks of resistance.
I still would like a winning lottery ticket, but I'd settle for a Vietnamese restaurant within an hour drive of me. Anyway, tables don't format well on the messageboards, but here it is.
Sorry, not vietnamese, and don't live near you. Thank you for the table, though :)
Hey there Kirth and TOZ
Can I have a copy of Kirthfinder, thanks.
I got it, thanks TOZ
Hi,
wasn't around here for quite a while.
My group was playing for the last year with slightly modified Kirthfinder rules and it was pretty much awesome.
(They like the options but don't really want to invest the time of learning all, so i basically spoonfeed them - that's kinda weird)
So now that i learnt about a new version, would you mind sending me it in doc format if avaiable?
I add and switch some rules, so that's preferable to pdf for me.
Sertaki,
Be happy to! I'll add you to the list for my next DOCX mailing.
Would you mind sharing any feedback on things that didn't work/needed tweaking/were totally borked and got thrown out? I'm always eager to hear from other groups.
Thanks a lot :D
Well i had some problems with adjusting monsters and npcs to the rules. I normaly just check the book and use a monster as wrtten since i improvise so much, and i just took some of cr +1 or +2 to accomodate for the increased power level.
In the last fight we had a lvl 5 fighter flat out killed a hill giant in one blow Oo ..
happens i suppose
But it feels wrong somehow - they still go through encounters faster than they should, but i fear taking even higher cr as the norm - though no problem throwing some at them from time to time.
And npcs that are built to kill will probably kill ;)
I started doing a big list of npcs for various levels with correct kirthfinder rules, so they are actually challenging.
Mostly some military for the nazi dwarfs my players are facing atm.
Sadly i don't have the skill to swiftly ramp up an encounter to a challenge as you did with the balor example a couple of pages earlier.
If anyone is interested i can put the list online.
I think i will test them soon with a dwarven killer squad of smaller CR before i send the big guns. They made the wrong enemies ^^
Changes i did: More weapons / some more exotic uses for existing weapons
Changing the skill list up a little - i didn't like the amount of merging, separated bluff/intimidate, some knowledge skills etc
The biggest change i made was trying to make psion rules - i even had a first draft finished when my laptop died - and the document with it :(
Was borrowing heavily from Psionics unleashed.
I'm struggling with the unified Spells per day rules but didn't come up with a nicer solution.
Also i nerfed eldritch blast to 1d4/spell level since it felt a little to strong in my eyes - but its propably fine.
One problem that came up: Fighter got a weapon of legacy (bigger boni than in the book since all those empty levels suck) and then chose it as her personal fighter weapon - which kind of frightens me ^^
I also have a bard/oracle - i houseruled a bard talent that lets both classes give the other weak theurgy - gonna see how this works out.
The improved movement in battles and various Strike feats are fun, though neither me nor my group use the tactical movement to the max somehow.
The fighter/rogue loves her true strike trick :D
But it feels wrong somehow - they still go through encounters faster than they should
This may be part of the disconnect -- houstonderek and I are used to 1e, which in general had a much lower hp:damage ratio, meaning that anything could be killed in about 2 rounds max, barring a lot of misses. We view fast, brutal combats as a feature rather than a bug.
If you prefer combats to last 4-5 rounds, the best bet is to swap out one feat for Stamina Training and one skill for Endurance, providing every monster with extra hp and possibly the ability to fight while dying.
That is actually a good idea :D
meaning that anything could be killed in about 2 rounds max, barring a lot of misses. We view fast, brutal combats as a feature rather than a bug.
This sounds refreshing. Can't wait to play this one day.
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I'd actually be happy to get the new PDF whenever one of you gets around to it. I'm still pushing my group to get together with your rules, but work and such continues to get in the way. Maybe someday we'll all have nice, steady jobs with hours that can be predicted and coordinated to have some good play time. And maybe someday I'll shoot lightning out of my ass.
I've also been thinking about how to give the fighter narrative skills, heavily related to the reputation talks a few pages ago. When I'm a bit less sleepy (and subsequently a bit more coherent) I'll post what I have in mind. Mostly I want to push for truly extraordinary abilities, leaving them as perfectly non-magical for the folks who prefer that, but still well beyond normal human capabilities (as it should be, I feel).
meaning that anything could be killed in about 2 rounds max, barring a lot of misses. We view fast, brutal combats as a feature rather than a bug.This sounds refreshing. Can't wait to play this one day.
Looking forward to it!
Re: fast combat, if you like Westerns and haven't seen Appaloosa, the big gunfight there is how I like for D&D fights to go.
Hitch (lying on the ground): "That was fast!"
Cole (likewise): "Everyone knew how to shoot."
So, it's pretty rough, and I'm not really happy with it, but I figure it gets the ball rolling a bit more.
As well, at 6th level, the fighter may force a Will (DC 15 + 1/2 the fighter's level + his Charisma bonus) save by all enemies able to perceive the fighter when he makes an attack (DC 15 + 1/2 the fighter's level + his Charisma bonus) or by actively intimidating those around him for a full round. If they fail this check, they are shaken for a number of rounds equal to half his fighter level. At 11th level, this changes to causing them to become frightened, and a successful save causes them to be shaken. At 16th level, this raises to panicked on a failed save, but they still become shaken on a successful save. Any character who succeeds at their save cannot be affected by this ability for 24 hours.
This gives them the ability to better win over allies and press his enemies to potentially run away, or at least treat him with some well-earned fear (because while he may not change the cosmos, he's still damn good at killing things).
Then maybe a fighter talent (or just a baseline ability) relating to granting movement speed to allies (like +5' every 4 or so fighter levels?) as well as improving long-distance travel speeds for large groups? I suppose this wouldn't be directly beneficial to the group specifically, but it would still be a bonus on a large scale that the wizard doesn't already give (teleportation and overland flight only affect a small group of people).
I was also thinking of making Warlord into something else, but I couldn't really think of what exactly. The ideas I had related to some kind of group-based bonus to represent his better leadership skills, but I'm not sure how to implement it (especially with that kind of added into the above already).
Okay, man, I love the new updates. I have a question about a handful of things that I don't believe have been addressed in this thread yet:
1) The description for the Arcane Bond feat says
"Special: Unlike a bonded object or familiar gained
through the class feature, a bonded item or familiar
gained through a feat requires some investiture of
personal numen (Chapter 6), equal to 1,000 x (half
your effective caster level)2. For example, a bonded
item with an effective caster level of 10th would cost
12,500 numen."
If I'm doing my math correctly, though, that example should add up to 25,000 numen. Is the formula correct, or is the final answer correct (which would be 500 x (1/2 caster level)2)? Also--yikes, that's expensive either way.
2) You reference the Chain Spell feat (at least twice, under the Sorcerer's Metamagic Blast options, and then under the Arcane bloodline greater eldritch blast description), but it's not actually listed under any of your metamagic feats. It seems to have been subsumed by the Mass Effect Spell feat, but that feat specifically forbids spells with attack rolls... I'm guessing this just got missed, but it could stand to be clarified/cleaned up.
3) Several Sorcerer bloodlines (Arcane, Boreal, Elemental, Fey, Infernal) list Improved Familiar as a bonus feat, but that feat has been replaced/subsumed by Leadership.
4) Other Sorcerer bloodlines (Elemental fire, Genie Efreeti, Infernal, Rakshasa) and the Wizard Evoker and Elemental fire specialists reference the Blistering Spell feat, but that feat doesn't seem to exist anywhere in your document.
5) This is really just a minor nitpick, but the Aspirancy Incarnate mystery only grants the Celestial or Fiendish template as its 20th level ability--but that is already included in their Favored Terrain ability. The Celestial, Elemental, and Infernal Sorcerer bloodlines also do this, but they at least grant some minor extra goodies as well. The Aspirancy Incarnate needs some love!
Been looking at Bluff (p.417) to demoralize and Daunting Strike (p. 536).
Using Bluff to demoralize is a Standard Action. You roll your bluff skill vs a DC of 15 + target's Will Save (which includes base save, Charisma, reistance, and bonuses vs fear) + target's Charisma. Succeeding at the save causes shaken for 1 round, beating it by 5 increases the duration by 1 round (+1 round for each additional 5).
Daunting Strike is a Standard Action. If you hit and damage your opponent, they must make a Will Save (which includes base save, Charisma, reistance, and bonuses vs fear) vs DC 10+ your Bluff skill bonus to demoralize). If they fail, they are shaken for 1 minute.
Several things stood out to me:
The duration of the Daunting Strike effect (1 minute = 10 rounds) is equivalent to beating the bluff DC by 45(9*5). This is OK by me, since the character with the feat has invested a limited resource in it, but it's worth noting.
Using bluff to demoralize, your enemy gets to use his Cha mod twice (once in the will save bonus, and then again on its own). A character with high will, a character trained in demoralizing, or a character with both high will and training, would all be good at resisting demoralization. Also, the base 15 DC seems odd, given the scaling DCs in other areas. I propose the DC for demoralize be: 10+ target's Bluff Skill bonus to demoralize + target's Will save bonus.
When the target of a Daunting Strike makes his Will save against the demoralization effect,I propose that he can also add his Bluff Skill bonus to demoralize as a bonus to the roll.
This would let characters trained in demoralizing better resist fear effects from other character's intimidating efforts (but not resist magical fear any better).
Really having fun with the update.
EDIT: On an unrelated topic, several references to Spell Penetration exist within the text, even though it has been superseded by the Concentration Skill w/ Skill Focus.
Wynterknight, heliopolix,
Thanks for the comments! I'm a little gummed up lately at work, but hope to be able to think about this stuff and give you guys some coherent responses very soon. Just didn't want you to think I'd missed and/or forgoten!
Thanks again,
--Kirth
Been reviewing my players' characters in preparation for the resumption of my game (its been on summer hiatus), and thought I'd share some thoughts I had while reviewing them.
Sneak Attack: The free Strike activation from this ability allows a rogue that is getting a full round sneak attack to also apply the Strike effects without suffering the usual -5 penalty on attacks from using a strike during a full attack action. Very Powerful. Also, The wording from Striking Mastery prevents a rogue from using a standard action strike to make a sneak attack, and getting a second strike power activated for free.
Strikes: In general, the DC of a Strike is 10+ 1/2 BAB + Str Mod, which can be changed to 10+ 1/2 BAB + Dex Mod with Weapon Finesse. These DCs make sense for Melee, but what about Ranged Strikes (most strikes are melee only, but some can be used with ranged weapons)? Should there be a similar DC for thrown & projectile weapons (ie Str-based, Wis-based)? And how would Reflexive shot interact with those DCs (like Weapon Finesse?);
Well i had some problems with adjusting monsters and npcs to the rules. I normaly just check the book and use a monster as wrtten since i improvise so much, and i just took some of cr +1 or +2 to accomodate for the increased power level.
In the last fight we had a lvl 5 fighter flat out killed a hill giant in one blow Oo ..
happens i supposeBut it feels wrong somehow - they still go through encounters faster than they should, but i fear taking even higher cr as the norm - though no problem throwing some at them from time to time.
And npcs that are built to kill will probably kill ;)
I'm interested if the monsters posed any challenge at all. Not a problem if they die soon, but were they able to hit PCs AC, or do significant damage? Are their special abilities DCs relevant?
...If anyone is interested i can put the list online.
Please do. Will also be using dwarfs as antagonists.
Changes i did: More weapons / some more exotic uses for existing weapons
Interested in this, also. Making couple of changes of my own.
Hey guys, I'd be glad to playtest the new PDF of the rules, so here's my email:
Other than that, I'll ask around with my players who have used KF before and come back with our collective feedback.
I can tell you now, though that one particular feature, having severing strike as a rogue, means you can instantly kill anything with a head with a sneak attack with no save. It's not like I'm opposed to rogues being great but this seems a bit much.
Hey guys, I'd be glad to playtest the new PDF of the rules, so here's my email:
** spoiler omitted **
Other than that, I'll ask around with my players who have used KF before and come back with our collective feedback.
I can tell you now, though that one particular feature, having severing strike as a rogue, means you can instantly kill anything with a head with a sneak attack with no save. It's not like I'm opposed to rogues being great but this seems a bit much.
I'd like to offer my own interpretation on this.
Sneak attacks do allow a free activation of a strike feat, but that just gets around having to use a standard action single attack to activate the strike - and thus you could activate severing strike with each sneak attack, instead of only a single attack a round (since severing strikes does not include the "-5 on a full round attack" wording, you wouldn't normally be able to apply it multiple times a round). I believe the target still gets to save against the effects.
Severing Strike renders limbs useless at BAB 6, severs limbs at BAB 11, and severs heads at BAB 16. The Fortitude save DC is based on 1/2 BAB+Str, but rogues have Opportune Strike and Weapon Finesse, so their DC is 1/2 LVL+Dex. At level 6, with an 18 dex, that's DC 17; at 11 (22 dex), it's DC 21; at 16 (26 dex), it's 26. Those saves are moderately difficult for martials of equal level, and challenging for everyone else.
It also has a pretty significant prereqisite feat list. I suppose you could also select the Feat Mastery feat and start lopping heads at level 11, if you really wanted to focus on it.
Of course, its a good example of the scary power that characters can obtain in KF. Fights I've run in my campaighn are usually short and bloody, which I think was part of the design goals.
Synergy: You can add the effects of any one strike you know (see “Combat Feats, Strikes” in Chapter 5) to any sneak attack that successfully deals damage, even if the normal activating conditions are not met. You cannot add Vital Strike to sneak attacks in this manner, however. Also, this ability does not apply to sneak attacks made with splash weapons using the Grenadier talent.
Strikes are a special subset of combat feats that add additional effects to your attacks, but generally at the cost of being able to make only one attack that round (some strikes can be applied to multiple attacks, but at a penalty, as noted in the description). Unless otherwise noted, Strikes that require an attack as a standard action can also be used in conjunction with a single attack at the end of a charge, or a single attack made using the Spring Attack feat.
Many Strikes allow a saving throw to mitigate the effects. Unless otherwise noted, the save DC is equal to 10 + half your base attack bonus + your Strength modifier. If you have the Weapon Finesse feat and execute a Strike, you can instead choose to set the DC as 10 + half your BAB + your Dexterity modifier. For strikes that activate on a critical and allow a saving throw, add +2 to the save DC for weapons with a x3 critical multiplier, and +4 to the save DC for weapons with a x4 critical multiplier.
Synergy: The effects of most strikes can be automatically applied to certain other attacks, depending on the prerequisites met:
*To a single attack of opportunity if you have the Deft Opportunist feat;
*To a confirmed critical hit if you have the Critical Focus feat;
*To a pin if you have the Improved Grapple feat;
*To a sneak attack if you are a rogue with the Opportune Strike class feature.
Prerequisites: Base attack bonus +6, Improved Critical with slashing weapon, Improved Weapon Maneuvers, Weapon Focus and Weapon specialization with same slashing weapon (or weapon training talent with that group).
Benefit: As a standard action, make a single melee attack with a qualifying slashing weapon. If this attack successfully damages the target, the target must succeed at a Fortitude save or one of its limbs (hand/foreleg, tentacle, or wing; you choose one within your reach) is rendered useless. A useless arm cannot be used to wield a weapon, hold an object, or carry a shield; a creature with only usable wing cannot fly; a quadruped with only one usable foreleg moves at half normal speed. The limb recovers after all hp damage currently sustained by the creature has been healed. Alternatively, a successful Heal skill check (DC 10 + half your base attack bonus + your Strength modifier) made on the injured opponent will restore use to the limb; this requires 10 minutes of work and a healer’s kit.
If your base attack bonus is +11 or higher, on a failed save, you actually lop off one of the opponent’s extremities (again, you choose which, if more than one could apply), rendering it permanently useless.
If your base attack bonus is +16 or higher, on a failed save, you can choose to sever the opponent’s head instead (as a successful critical using a vorpal weapon).
Source: Suggested by the “Stroke of Precision” heroic feat, from the 2nd edition Celts Campaign Sourcebook.
1) The description for the Arcane Bond feat says
"[rules]." If I'm doing my math correctly, though, that example should add up to 25,000 numen. Is the formula correct, or is the final answer correct (which would be 500 x (1/2 caster level)2)? Also--yikes, that's expensive either way.2) You reference the Chain Spell feat (at least twice, under the Sorcerer's Metamagic Blast options, and then under the Arcane bloodline greater eldritch blast description), but it's not actually listed under any of your metamagic feats. It seems to have been subsumed by the Mass Effect Spell feat, but that feat specifically forbids spells with attack rolls... I'm guessing this just got missed, but it could stand to be clarified/cleaned up.
3) Several Sorcerer bloodlines (Arcane, Boreal, Elemental, Fey, Infernal) list Improved Familiar as a bonus feat, but that feat has been replaced/subsumed by Leadership.
4) Other Sorcerer bloodlines (Elemental fire, Genie Efreeti, Infernal, Rakshasa) and the Wizard Evoker and Elemental fire specialists reference the Blistering Spell feat, but that feat doesn't seem to exist anywhere in your document.
5) This is really just a minor nitpick, but the Aspirancy Incarnate mystery only grants the Celestial or Fiendish template as its 20th level ability--but that is already included in their Favored Terrain ability. The Celestial, Elemental, and Infernal Sorcerer bloodlines also do this, but they at least grant some minor extra goodies as well. The Aspirancy Incarnate needs some love!
Wynterknight, sincere apologies for not responding sooner; RL sucks sometimes. Let me see if I can address your questions at least semi-coherently:
(1) My math is indeed off. And, yeah, it's pricy, but I'm assuming you'll want a bonded item, and assuming a full caster, so you're looking at (1/2 CL, round up)^2 x 2,000 numen, and giving you half off for spending a feat (like Craft feats) means 1,000 x (1/2 CL). So 25,000 is exactly in line with item costs. (For a familiar, you'd have 2 feats x 10th level effects x 2,000 (item cost) x 1/2 = 20,000 mojo, which isn't too far off.)
(2) Yeah, there was an awful lot of overlap, so it made sense to merge them, but I neglected to fix the feat description or the references elsewhere. Thanks very much for the catch -- I'll correct the master documents accordingly.
(3) Just caught that on my end as well. Those bonus feats should be replaced by Arcane Bond and/or Leadership as well (or by Thamuaturgist, in the latest version, which is the equivalent feat for controlling extraplanar critters -- never mind if you don't have that yet.)
(4) Again, a case of too much overlap and poor editing on my part. Replace Blistering Spell with Empower Spell (which pretty much does the same thing, only better).
(5) I think you're right! And I'm definitely open to suggestions.
1. The duration of the Daunting Strike effect (1 minute = 10 rounds) is equivalent to beating the bluff DC by 45(9*5). This is OK by me, since the character with the feat has invested a limited resource in it, but it's worth noting.
2. Using bluff to demoralize, your enemy gets to use his Cha mod twice (once in the will save bonus, and then again on its own). A character with high will, a character trained in demoralizing, or a character with both high will and training, would all be good at resisting demoralization. Also, the base 15 DC seems odd, given the scaling DCs in other areas. I propose the DC for demoralize be: 10+ target's Bluff Skill bonus to demoralize + target's Will save bonus.
When the target of a Daunting Strike makes his Will save against the demoralization effect,I propose that he can also add his Bluff Skill bonus to demoralize as a bonus to the roll.
This would let characters trained in demoralizing better resist fear effects from other character's intimidating efforts (but not resist magical fear any better).
3. On an unrelated topic, several references to Spell Penetration exist within the text, even though it has been superseded by the Concentration Skill w/ Skill Focus.
1. That's a good catch, and in all honestly I've been meaning to buff the Bluff skill a bit. A feat should improve your use of a skill, but not effectively supersede it. I'll think on this a bunch.
2. I caught this, too, and honestly was never happy with the way it was written. The new text simply says, "The subject is entitled to an opposed Bluff check or Will save (whichever is prefers) to resist." That's maybe not as advantageous in terms of stats, but it's easy as hell to remember at the table, which counts for a lot when your memory is as crappy as mine!
3. Wow -- without Christopher I'm evidently helpless when it comes to editing. I'll do a global search and clear that up.
Thanks again for the comments.
Thanks, TOZ. Heliopolix: I had the version of KF from the google site, which does not have the "on a failed save" wording. That makes a huge difference.
4. Sneak Attack: The free Strike activation from this ability allows a rogue that is getting a full round sneak attack to also apply the Strike effects without suffering the usual -5 penalty on attacks from using a strike during a full attack action. Very Powerful.
5. Strikes: In general, the DC of a Strike is 10+ 1/2 BAB + Str Mod, which can be changed to 10+ 1/2 BAB + Dex Mod with Weapon Finesse. These DCs make sense for Melee, but what about Ranged Strikes (most strikes are melee only, but some can be used with ranged weapons)? Should there be a similar DC for thrown & projectile weapons (ie Str-based, Wis-based)? And how would Reflexive shot interact with those DCs (like Weapon Finesse?);
4. Yes, it is -- but with limits. You have to fulfill the conditions for a sneak attack, you need an extra feat (Blind-Fight) if there's any concealment or whatever, and your opponent can stop the effect with Fortification, which negates sneak attacks but not regular melee attacks. Also, the rogue's attack bonus is likely to be a lot lower than the fighter's, because of lower BAB to begin with and no weapon training. I think, at the end of the day, it'll come out in the wash. That said, rogues are indeed now crazy good. They've been getting the shaft in every edition since OD&D, and I wanted to see what they'd be like statted as equal to a cleric instead.
5. I've been meaning for some time to roll all the ranged strike feats into the [strike] section, and have a list of general strike prerequisites: Power Attack (and use Str for save DC), or Weapon Finesse (and use Dex for save DC), or Precise Shot (and use Wis for save DC). Unfortunately, I have yet to fulfill that particular ambition.
Well i had some problems with adjusting monsters and npcs to the rules. I normally just check the book and use a monster as written since i improvise so much,
I can see that being an issue. I'm a very thorough-prep DM, so I make sure that the NPCs and monsters (other than generic sword-fodder ones) conform to the new rules, as well as the PCs. That means, at minimum, that I swap out their feats and skills, and probably spend some numen on them as well, and that helps keep things on even footing. Running monsters straight out of the book would mean you'd need to adjust their CR downward by 1 or 2 -- as it sounds like you've done with some of yours.
That said, the offer I made when discussing how I convert balors is still open: if you want me to convert (a reasonable number of) specific monsters for you, I'll be very happy to, time permitting. I also plan to add a section on using monsters to the Intro, as it's becoming something of an FAQ.
I can tell you now, though that one particular feature, having severing strike as a rogue, means you can instantly kill anything with a head with a sneak attack with no save. It's not like I'm opposed to rogues being great but this seems a bit much.
Helio's reply is spot on. Also, as I mentioned above, bear in mind that (1) difficult-to-fulfill sneak attack conditions, (2) concealment, and (3) fortification, all make this tactic a lot less certain than it seems. And, in another reference to spending monsters' numen, I often dump at least some of it into fortification, if I haven't already spent it on something else.
So I was looking around at 3PP classes, and found one in particular by Super Genius Games. They have a lot of neat fighter (read: non-magical) abilities that aren't for strictly making the fighter better at killing things. They gave the war master a sort of bardic performance, among other things. Below are a few I liked in particular.
A war master must have the Leadership feat prior to selecting the born leader talent.
Contacts are always typical members of the community, rather than knights or court wizards, and the war master must treat a contact well to gain actual aid. A contact has no special connection to the war master’s allies, and has an initial attitude toward them consistent with how others in the community would feel.
Along with this one:
Every two levels the war master gains after selecting this talent he may “reassign” one of his agents, removing the agent from the community it was previously in and returning it to the pool of available followers. A war master with no available followers of 2nd or higher level can’t use the agent talent until he has an available follower.
Thanks! -- I'd looked at that, too (I actually bought the War Master PDF way back when, before it became openly available). Of the abilities listed, some have already been incorporated, and others declined for specific reasons:
Thanks! -- I'd looked at that, too (I actually bought the War Master PDF way back when, before it became openly available). Of the abilities listed, some have already been incorporated, and others declined for specific reasons:
Born Leader - Incorporated into KF Leadership feat.
Contacts, Agents - These got subsumed into the KF rogue's Network ability.
Hard March - Take the Herald fighter talent and select Chant of the Long Road (or equivalent inspiration) in place of next talent.
Perspicacity - Sense Motive already rolled into Bluff, and fighter less skill-starved overall, so not as desperately needed!
Parley - Should be a function of Diplomacy skill itself, which the KF fighter can get really good at by choosing Officer as his extra skill option.
Sphere of Influence - Fiddly minor bonus that adds bookkeeping but doesn't really affect too much.
Oh, hey, I suppose they already are in there. I guess that's what I get for not checking the book real fast, haha. Ah, well, I'll keep looking for and thinking about more fighter stuff. Hopefully something can come out of it. I'd love to see the fighter have a greater narrative/group influence potential. *Edit* The Herald fighter talent seems to be Field Marshal now, however.
Though what did you think about the battle tactics the war master got? It's a thematic bonus that has a lot of distinct buffs from the bard's performance, while behaving in a similar enough way as to make it easy to work with if you already know how the bard's performance works.
Yeah, I like that kind of stuff a lot. Ideally, I'd like to have an a-la-carte system instead of a class-based one, so that your fighter could just pick up bardic inspiration/battle tactics at will by spending XP on it, but I found it too hard to get players to agree to a classless system.
hey any cover art gonna be in the works before I get this thing hardbound printed?
hey any cover art gonna be in the works before I get this thing hardbound printed?
How soon were you looking to print? I've been tinkering a bit with the cleric and fighter progressions in response to this thread, and have done some other things to pare down the page count.
I have an illustration I'll probably use for the final that I did in art markers and cray-pas, depicting one of the PCs battling a Fire Angel (from Zelazny's Sign of Chaos). I'd be happy to include that in the email, if you like. I'm not a professional artist by any stretch of the imagination, but I like it better than WAR's stuff because the PC is standing on the ground, rather than flitting about like Tinkerbell.
Don't forget the pie slices missing out of the irises!
And spiky, floppy hair. Preferrably light blue or pink, but bleach-blond will do in a pinch.
Im willing to wait for awesome.
Kirth got my last copy back the last week in May. If there are any substantial updates shoot me a fresh copy.
xarter at yahoo.com
Also we are 3 sessions into the RoTRL game so nothing major has really occured to report as far as updates to enemies.
Yeah, I like that kind of stuff a lot. Ideally, I'd like to have an a-la-carte system instead of a class-based one, so that your fighter could just pick up bardic inspiration/battle tactics at will by spending XP on it, but I found it too hard to get players to agree to a classless system.
Maybe make them into a series of fighter talents and/or feats? They're almost all combat focused, just on group play rather than self-buffing. Or maybe give them baseline, and let them choose one every 5 or so levels.
I don't know. Might be filling the class abilities list up a bit much.