A Clerics primary Attribute should be Charisma, not Wisdom


Homebrew and House Rules

The Exchange

Charisma is all about convincing folks to worship your god, and convincing your god to give you spells. It is the perview of the Charlatan to pry your gold from your coinpurse with a whisper. It is the Tool of leaders.

Wisdom on the other hand is the perview of Wise men (Monks). It is Judgement and the understanding vital to know how to use knowledge to its most advantageous.

Grand Lodge

They should also be spontaneous casters. And druids should have to maintain a list of spells known instead of having them all.


yellowdingo wrote:

Charisma is all about convincing folks to worship your god, and convincing your god to give you spells. It is the perview of the Charlatan to pry your gold from your coinpurse with a whisper. It is the Tool of leaders.

Wisdom on the other hand is the perview of Wise men (Monks). It is Judgement and the understanding vital to know how to use knowledge to its most advantageous.

I agree that Charisma is important for a Cleric (and it already is due to channel energy being based on it), but they are also the spiritual advisors, who must provide advice and answers to the common people. This is why they need Wisdom.

Also their spells is based more on an understanding of their god and his purpose (unlike Oracles, who simply cast spells without truly understanding).


In most settings, recruiting isn't the primary goal of clerics.


And honestly, why isn't Perform a class skill for Clerics? Religious services typically rely heavily on the performing arts (singing, musical instruments, oratory, storytelling). I was shocked and amazed at the Evangelist archetype in UC.


I think - in general - that the cleric they're shooting for in Pathfinder is more the wise intermediary between deity and common man and less a televangelist.

Silver Crusade

Well there is the Oracle. They are Charisma based, cast spontaneously, and could very easily fit the "televangelist " roll. Heck an Oracle could run the whole thing as a con job, since their spells don't come from a specific god.

Dark Archive

Wisdom always does one thing only.

Charisma also always does one thing only.

Any class who doesn't fit into my preconceived notions of how to use these stats must have been built incorrectly. I must tell the masses!


Interesting debate, but I have to say that I have never had an issue with clerics being split between CHA and WIS. They are a very versatile class. Having the ability to convince their god allows them to tap into the pure energy of the afterlife (channel energy). having the ability to understand their god allows them to use their understanding to effect this material world (spells). It's all a matter of perception and point of view.


I can certainly imagine a campaign, or a series of adventures within a campaign, where a cleric's primary task is to convince folks to worship her god. So, I can understand why a campaign might stress Charisma and Charisma-based skills for clerics.

I think that independently of that, there are other issues that the game cannot "solve" because 1) it's a game and 2) the six attributes are necessarily too big.

Consider Wisdom and wisdom. Over the course of history in the real world, wisdom has usually been seen to be affiliated with philosophers, sages and monks (monks not of the gaming variety). There is also the wisdom that comes from age and experience that isn't confined. In this sense, wisdom isn't the Wisdom of the game.

Consider Charisma and charisma. In the real world (as in the game, perhaps) there are at least two different kinds of charisma, I suppose I'll call them introverted and extroverted. One kind is a sort of personal power type, associated with inner growth and self-confidence. The other kind is a sort of power-over-others type, associated with commanding authority, and leadership, but also the ability to con others.

And, we could say the same things about the other stats. There are all kinds of ways that a person can be strong, further, someone can be very strong in the upper body but not in the lower body, etc.

The game cannot resolve all those potential problems, but it's also not supposed to, because it's a game.


yellowdingo wrote:

Charisma is all about convincing folks to worship your god, and convincing your god to give you spells. It is the perview of the Charlatan to pry your gold from your coinpurse with a whisper. It is the Tool of leaders.

Wisdom on the other hand is the perview of Wise men (Monks). It is Judgement and the understanding vital to know how to use knowledge to its most advantageous.

Simply houserule it at your game, I did it with witches, allowing Witch-Players to freely choose if Cha (the beauty witch), Wis (the wise lady) or int (the more wizard like witch), should be their caster attribute.

Grand Lodge

Tryn wrote:
Simply houserule it at your game,

*points at forum title*

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Homebrew and House Rules / A Clerics primary Attribute should be Charisma, not Wisdom All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.
Recent threads in Homebrew and House Rules