Situation:
Enemy is pinned between me and my ally, we're on opposite sides of him and would be flanking under normal circumstances.
However I am invisible. Greater or normal, doesn't matter.
Do we still both benefit from the +2 to attack from flanking?
I would think so, since we both threaten the enemy from opposite sides, and that's really the only condition given in the rules. But you could argue "The enemy doesn't know there's someone in his back, so he concentrates fully on the visible enemy, not trying to defend against both sides and so doesn't provide the flanking opening to the visible enemy. The invisible one would still get the flanking bonus of course."
Also, would I get the +2 from being invisible and the +2 from flanking?
Again, I think so since one is untyped and the other flanking bonus, just makign sure though.
By RAW? Yes you'd get all the benefits of flanking and invisibility since the opponent knowing you are there or not doesn't matter.
Provide of course that nothing like improved uncanny dodge is involved.
Plus you'll get catch him flat footed since you're invisible.
RAW yes!
RAI yes!
However counter situation. Invisible you flanking the enemy with an ally haven't noticed another invisible enemy with true seeing that has stealthily moved behind you into a flanking position from a ready action but doesn't attack you!
Does the opponent you are flanking get a flank bonus now against you even though They are not aware of their ally behind you?
Well since I'm invisible that means the enemy without true seeing does not threaten me.... however the criterea is that you get the bonues "if your opponent is threatened by another enemy character or creature on its opposite border or opposite corner."
So by RAW the flanked enemy, would get flanking bonus against me, if he somehow would be able to attack me in the first place. The invisible enemey with true seeing would NOT get flanking bonus, because the visible enemy is not threatening me.
That's RAW, but here I would say that's probably not RAI
I understand what you mean, if he can't see you, he can't feel threatened by you, thus doesn't include you in his defense.
RAI is still yes, as a buff (positif spell) shouldn't hurt your chances.
but the reality check is a little different, if you want to houserule this exeption you can, but don't forget that the opponent might feel your invisible breath in his neck and that might confuse him or help him locate you.
My advice is: roll with it, don't overdo reality or this is the least of your worries.
Hmm... wasn't an optional rule around in 3.5, allowing you to 'ignore' an enemy (so it wouldn't grant the flanking effect, but making yourself effectively flat-footed to him?)
I think I read something along these lines somewhere...
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I understand what you mean, if he can't see you, he can't feel threatened by you, thus doesn't include you in his defense.
RAI is still yes, as a buff (positif spell) shouldn't hurt your chances.but the reality check is a little different, if you want to houserule this exeption you can, but don't forget that the opponent might feel your invisible breath in his neck and that might confuse him or help him locate you.
My advice is: roll with it, don't overdo reality or this is the least of your worries.
'feeling' threatened is not what threatening squares is all about. It's the fact that I can strike you while you are moving through or into/out of that area.
Being threatened has absolutely NOTHING to do with the target, it's whether or not his enemy is threatening.
David Hopper, I know, but being flanked seems like it's because of the target "feeling threaned" by two sides at once. Why would he have to worry about his back if he doesn't know someone is there.
I'm just saying I can understand where the OP is coming from. The rules are clear, but perhaps hard to imagine.
Yes, it definitely does seem weird.
If A and B are fighting, A's ally C is standing on the other side of B with a weapon drawn but never actually does anything nor is noticed by either A or B, why should A get a flanking bonus?
C's presence makes no observable difference in how either A or B should behave, because C doesn't interact with them and they don't know C is there.
Plus you'll get catch him flat footed since you're invisible.
No. He is denied his dexterity bonus to AC. He is NOT flat-footed. The two terms are not interchangeable.
ok give the greater invis guy his flanking bonus, it's RAW.
but does the victim realise they are flanked? seems they should
(even if by chance mr greater invis misses ac % on all attacks)