In some movies, snipers only completely lose their position when they fire twice, provided they are far enough away. Maybe the penalty is dropped to like -5 for one shot at 5+ range increments. I'd like that.
cranewings wrote: In some movies, snipers only completely lose their position when they fire twice, provided they are far enough away. Maybe the penalty is dropped to like -5 for one shot at 5+ range increments. I'd like that. Keep in mind though that those firearms are largely more advanced than those in Pathfinder. The "rifle" is comparible to a bolt action rifle I believe, which were used for long range work.The second shot reveal is likely because after the first shot, they know where to look (usually because there was a bang, not sure when silencers were invented), and once they're looking in the right direction, they'll see the muzzle flash, pinpointing the sniper's location.
The main problem I see here is that there aren't really hard rules for the noise a firearm makes, meaning for some it has no bearing on the game regardless of volume (which makes as much sense as not penalizing a crossbow shooter for screaming "DIE!" as he fires from hiding), or one uses circumstance bonuses/penalties. That's what makes Oil of Silence useful, as it eliminates the bang. But again, because there are no rules for the bang specifically, we have arguments like the one that nearly got out of hand earlier.
I just know if you want to make a real sniper or long range marksman (there is a difference), a rogue should acquire Sniper Goggles, a Distance musket/rifle, a Far-Seeing Scope, and a few vials of Oil of Silence. At the range you could make accurate attacks with sneak attack damage (as it's unlikely he's aware of you from 400-1,600 feet away), the +1/10ft increase to DC will more than offset the -20 penalty, even moreso once he can take Advanced Rogue Talents and takes only a -10 for sniping with Stealthy Sniper. The hardest problem I usually have with making such long range experts is that DMs rarely provide opportunities to make use of that range, or will go out their way to prevent it. Sniping from only, say, 50ft away is very difficult to do, even moreso when using a loud weapon.
That makes sense. Besides, aren't there stiff penalties perception at long range?
Side note, in my steampunk game, the party rogue boarded an air ship, and as part of the distraction, got basically the whole crew shooting at him. I let the smoke from their muskets grant 20% concealment so he could use stealth. I'm not sure if concealment works that way but it made sense at the time.
cranewings wrote: That makes sense. Besides, aren't there stiff penalties perception at long range?
Side note, in my steampunk game, the party rogue boarded an air ship, and as part of the distraction, got basically the whole crew shooting at him. I let the smoke from their muskets grant 20% concealment so he could use stealth. I'm not sure if concealment works that way but it made sense at the time.
The DC for stealth increases by 1 for every ten feet of distance, so yeah, at long range that can really add up like I mentioned. For sniping, the Perception DC would be the rogue's stealth roll, plus stealth modifier, minus 20 (or 10 with Stealthy Sniper), +1/10feat, then any other miscelaneous modifiers.
As for the scenario you mentioned, that falls under the "rule of cool" that was brought up earlier. The smoke wouldn't last long of course (1 round at best), but given enough guns firing it could create a momentary smokescreen, at least enough for a stealthy getaway.
Roaming Shadow wrote: cranewings wrote: In some movies, snipers only completely lose their position when they fire twice, provided they are far enough away. Maybe the penalty is dropped to like -5 for one shot at 5+ range increments. I'd like that. Keep in mind though that those firearms are largely more advanced than those in Pathfinder. The "rifle" is comparible to a bolt action rifle I believe, which were used for long range work.The second shot reveal is likely because after the first shot, they know where to look (usually because there was a bang, not sure when silencers were invented), and once they're looking in the right direction, they'll see the muzzle flash, pinpointing the sniper's location.
Wikipedia say the first silencers were produced at the start of XX century.
Sound isn't the main problem of snipers, it is accuracy. Unless you use rifled weapons your accuracy suffer badly. During the American Revolution there were snipers using rifled guns but the rate of fire was way slower that with smoothbores. During the American civil war, thanks to the ammunition advancement (Minié balls) it was possible to use rifled muzzle bores with a very good accuracy and snipers were used.
With what UC call "early firearms" it should not be possible to do the sniper job. It will be possible to fire from concealment but after the first shot you position will be fairly evident thanks to the smoke cloud produced by the shot.
Note that most early firearms didn't even had sights to aim the weapon.
With the advanced firarms it should become possible to place accurate shots from longer distances making sniping easier. It wouldn't be illogical to call that the advanced firearms use smokeless powder too.
As a house rule for advanced firearms only I would allow a sighted weapon to double his sneak attack range (up to his first range increment at maximum).
I wouldn't allow to use of Sniper goggles (I think they are a broken magic item) but the use of a scope would allow the firer to multiply his sneak attack range by his magnification factor +1.
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