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So one of the things I was most unhappy with when delving through the new "Guide to Pathfinder Society Organized Play" is the new requirement for obtaining a 5th star as a GM. It states:
GMs are eligible to obtain a fifth star based on their ability to run Pathfinder Society Special or Pathfinder Society Exclusive scenarios. Upon earning his fourth star, a Game Master gains access to exclusive scenarios that can only be run by Paizo staff, Venture-Captains (see chapter 7), and four-star GMs for 1 full year before being made publicly available for all GMs to run. Four-star GMs who have run 50 special or exclusive scenarios (over the course of their careers) are awarded a fifth star for their dedication to the campaign. Five-star GMs are the cream of the crop. There will be special five-star GM events and possibly even future five-star GM rewards (in addition to the existing four-star GM rewards).
Now, this may not be such a problem for other areas, but in Georgia we have at least 6 people who either just got their 3rd star or is about to get it (this is excluding our VC). I wouldn't be surprised that if by the end of the year, we almost all those GMs reach their 4th star.
Here's the problem - how are we supposed to run 50 exclusives, especially since we will have so many GMs in the area looking to get their 5th star? Think about the following:
1. We have a huge player base (130+ players), but we can only run something like "The Midnight Mauler" so many times before everyone over here has played it.
2. Our VC Mike Brock has done one heckuva job offering "The Midnight Mauler" at gamedays and Cons down here, which means there are very people we know of who have not played it (and that number is going to shrink even more at Dragon*Con).
3. The specials are just too restrictive to run, not only because of it being played at the local Cons, but Year of the Ruby Phoenix isn't easily applicable to run at stores because it takes 6 tables worth. I can think of a location for us to run it, but we could get maybe only 1 mustering of that outside of conventions.
4. There aren't enough "exclusives" to justify this new stipulation, especially for a GM-saturated market like ours. I mean, if all of our GMs down here are 4-stars, we could AT BEST to expect to run an exclusive maybe 5 times a year if you release only 1 a year (and that's assuming all 130+ of our local players play). That means it'll take us at most 10 years to ever reach that 5th star. That's absolutely ridiculous in my opinion.
I understand that you want to make becoming a 5th star GM special, and that's great, but I don't think there was much thought on exactly how out of reach you're making it with this new stipulation. I would rather pay money to go to GenCon or go to PaizoCon and GM in front of a Paizo staff than go through this new system anyday.
Or maybe release exclusives to GMs when they get their 3rd star and ensure you release more than just the GenCon Special and the exclusive. If you shift it down to 3rd star, you've GM'ed 60 by that point, you should be pretty knowledgeable on the workings of Pathfinder and able to run scenarios with no problems. This way, you can get working on your 5th star sooner, and you'll have more opportunities to run those events because hopefully a lot more will be available for you run.
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Your third point illustrates how you increase your mods run for the specials: travel to other conventions. As many as you can. I think that is what this new 5 star requirement is hinting at you to do. Look at the current 5 star judges. Kyle, Doug and Bob all take the time to travel to many local conventions (even coming to Iowa) and they run the special events at those conventions. For example, at WhosYerCon, I believe Doug Miles ran Midnight Mauler the entire weekend. There you have 5-7 tables. Add on running a GenCon special a few times a year and you can get your 50 special events within a year and a half, if you are willing to travel. If you cannot travel, well, you can still get your 5th star, it will just take time.
I usually only went to one convention a year up until last year, when I went to my first GenCon. This year I organized Gamicon, traveled to WhosYerCon, judged every event at Origins as well as at GenCon. This is how I got to my 5th star (granted, under the old rules).
Once you get your 4th star, you are invaluable to other, small local cons, as you can run a scenario that they would not usually have available.
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I don't think there was much thought on exactly how out of reach you're making it with this new stipulation.
I can assure you that MUCH thought went into this, including a piece of my brain.
The goal was to come up with a system that didn't require a subjective measurement of quality.
I blinked a few times at the final version of this rule, but I think it falls well within "restrictive but obtainable."
As Todd pointed out, coming to just a handful of Cons outside your normal area of play will provide a big boost. We'll be looking for GM's at Origins next summer. I'm sure the next 4-star exclusive will be out by then. Come up to Columbus and run 10 slots of it!
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Your third point illustrates how you increase your mods run for the specials: travel to other conventions. As many as you can. I think that is what this new 5 star requirement is hinting at you to do. Look at the current 5 star judges. Kyle, Doug and Bob all take the time to travel to many local conventions (even coming to Iowa) and they run the special events at those conventions. For example, at WhosYerCon, I believe Doug Miles ran Midnight Mauler the entire weekend. There you have 5-7 tables. Add on running a GenCon special a few times a year and you can get your 50 special events within a year and a half, if you are willing to travel. If you cannot travel, well, you can still get your 5th star, it will just take time.
I usually only went to one convention a year up until last year, when I went to my first GenCon. This year I organized Gamicon, traveled to WhosYerCon, judged every event at Origins as well as at GenCon. This is how I got to my 5th star (granted, under the old rules).
Once you get your 4th star, you are invaluable to other, small local cons, as you can run a scenario that they would not usually have available.
I don't think your comparison to the current list of 5 star GMs says much, considering they way they got their stars is vastly different from the way it is decided now. All of our GMs travel (hell, the ones I am referring to all went up to GenCon this past week), so that's not the issue.
It doesn't help (well it does help, just not in the specific way I am referring) when we will have a good amount of GMs competing to run those scenarios. In the Southeast (not just Georgia), we have 5 Cons in the region. Dragon*Con, Atlanta Comic Con, Dicehead Siege, ConNooga, and PlayOn Con - but all our huge because we have an awesome player base mainly located in and around Atlanta. Doesn't matter how many Cons in the SE we run, it's still pulling from the same large player base.
This past year we ran Year of the Shadow Lodge at ConNooga. We didn't run it at Dicehead because practically all the players showing up went through it earlier (Con was held in the same location). We'll run Year of the Ruby Phoenix at Dragon*Con and then again at Atlanta Comic Con, but that's because the person in charge of D*C is severely underestimating the draw he will get for PFS play.
Like I said, we'll get to run the Special + Exclusives about 5 (maybe 7) times a year on average (considering the numbers of GMs in the area who will go to all these events and travel), but that doesn't solve the problem about it being overly restrictive. I mean, I don't think your point illustrates the fact we are traveling to different Cons in our region, not just in our home town, and that the change makes obtaining a 5th star outrageously difficult.
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Regional Venture-Coordinator, Mediterranean
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Personally, it looks to me like it would be extremely difficult to meet the 5 star criteria outside of the US. It does seem to be all about conventions as the way to achieve it. There just isn't the convention culture or numbers here in the UK to do it and I believe that it would be the same for other European countries.
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Joe, perhaps you want to offer a better system for measuring if a GM is worthy of 5 stars? I assure you I'm not being sarcastic. Paizo would be more likely to address your concerns if you offered a better plan though. The trick is finding an objective way to measure the quality of a GM, as well as their dedication to the campaign.
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As Todd pointed out, coming to just a handful of Cons outside your normal area of play will provide a big boost. We'll be looking for GM's at Origins next summer. I'm sure the next 4-star exclusive will be out by then. Come up to Columbus and run 10 slots of it!
If I can be promised 10 slots of it, I'll come!
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It does make it tougher. But with more GM's getting close to the magic 4 stars, this is a quantitave way to get your 5th star. I am a firm believer that the 5th star should be qualitative and subject to the old rules and there should be no quantative method of getting the 5th.
There are plently of conventions in the South East. I get invited to a convention or a retailer a week sometimes and retailers are always happy to see me coming. They sell those books and maps and minis and stuff.
Need help find events in SC, NC and GA take a look at the SCARAB website at www.s-c-a-r-a-b.com. I was phone party to the planning of another new convention in Savannah, GA in April 2012 just yesterday.
Cheer up we'll get there. Come to SCARAB gaming convention and we'll give you the mysterious SCARAB star for your PFS card. You can only get one by running at SCARAB Gaming Convention. We are tying to do more cool little things for GMs that run for us that are struggling to get tables under their belts.
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Joe, perhaps you want to offer a better system for measuring if a GM is worthy of 5 stars? I assure you I'm not being sarcastic. Paizo would be more likely to address your concerns if you offered a better plan though. The trick is finding an objective way to measure the quality of a GM, as well as their dedication to the campaign.
I know you aren't being sarcastic. I've actually been trying to think of suggestions on how to change the system while still keeping the exclusivity of getting that 5th star in check.
Well, I think a good compromise would be the switch the GM requirement for running the exclusives from 4 stars down to 3 stars. This way, during your last 40 games to 4th, a number of those could be qualifying exclusives. And this is practically what all Venture-Captains get to do already, because they aren't required to have 4 stars to run the special, nor does the current rules state that the 50 exclusive GM credit must come after you've reached 100 games. So Venture-Captains can currently count the times they run The Midnight Mauler without having a 4th star, but everyone else who isn't has to wait until they've GMed 100 games and then they have 40-50 more games of a certain scenario or two to GM.
The other solution would be to release more exclusives. I tend to think this is not as viable an option considering the constraints the Paizo staff already has on getting scenarios out the door. And in fact, this option should probably be a backburner idea because its more important to be getting say 4 scenarios out a month consistently, not seeing where in the development schedule there's room to make another exclusive - but that is an entire other discussion by itself.
Another idea that just popped into my head while typing this, have the long modules (everything that takes two slots or more to run, aka not We Be Goblins or Master of the Fallen Fortress) count towards your 5th star rating. Currently there is no added incentive to GM these modules in regards to GM rating since they count as running one scenario, despite the fact the prep time is way more than running a scenario. This also keeps with the spirit of it taking a long time to reach 5-stars because running modules is a heckuva longer task than running scenarios. From our area experiences, you can run 3 scenarios in the time it takes to run 1 module.
Between making exclusives available to GMs at 3 stars and letting modules count towards the 50 needed for your 5th star, I think there is some grounds for making the new rules work.
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I am a firm believer that the 5th star should be qualitative and subject to the old rules and there should be no quantative method of getting the 5th.
I am/was too until Doug made a great point:
Are you really going to tell a 4-star GM, someone who has run 100 scenarios and dedicated hundreds (or thousands) of hours to the campaign AND who travels to either PaizoCon or Gen Con that they aren't good enough for their 5th star?
Could you imagine Josh watching Doug last year GM and tell him that his despite his 250+ scenarios run (at that time), he wasn't good enough for the 5th star?
There IS some measure of quality by this measure. In order to run 100+ scenarios and 50+ specials, you have to have enough players willing to play at your tables. You can get there by being a great judge that people request, or you can do it like me and travel to places where they don't know how bad you really are. ;-)
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You can get there by being a great judge that people request, or you can do it like me and travel to places where they don't know how bad you really are. ;-)
This is why Kyle is currently banned from all Southeastern Cons. I heard the horror stories of Dragon*Con last year. :)
/Actually quite sad I won't get to see you at D*C Kyle, or at least I have not heard you will be going to it this year.
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Please keep in mind that it's supposed to be a challenge to get your 5th star. The cream of the crop isn't all that special if the whole crop is cream.
I personally think the last system was too easy and have made many, many suggestions on how to improve the system. I think the new requirements are a good step toward a better solution, and that over the coming months/years it can only get better.
p.s. Right now there's nothing available to a 5 star that a 4 star can't get access to...
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I am one of those, just becuase your kids played soccer, doesn't mean he gets the trophy, kind of guys. I can't see Paizo being unfair to a GM who has their 100 tables under their belt, not without severe reprecussions from the GMs community. That word would spread quickly through the GM community. It would be genuinely bad PR for Paizo. I trust them to have some quality control in place to help with determination of who is worthy of the 5th star.
If you are in the South East and you run out of places to run, gimme a hollar and I'll add you to the SCARAB network and you'll be beating off conventions and retailers with a stick ;-)
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You can get there by being a great judge that people request, or you can do it like me and travel to places where they don't know how bad you really are. ;-)This is why Kyle is currently banned from all Southeastern Cons. I heard the horror stories of Dragon*Con last year. :)
/Actually quite sad I won't get to see you at D*C Kyle, or at least I have not heard you will be going to it this year.
Dragon*Con was definitely some of my finer moments thanks to Rebel's Ransom. :-) (not to be outdone by DougDoug and his giant monkey)
I don't have plans for that weekend just yet, but I really hated last year's schedule of events and can't convince myself to drive 12 hours to put up with that again.
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If you are in the South East and you run out of places to run, gimme a hollar and I'll add you to the SCARAB network and you'll be beating off conventions and retailers with a stick ;-)
I'll be more than happy to take your Cons. In fact, you can publicize Cons on the forums of the Georgia PFS website. You'll get both GMs and players alike who want more Cons to travel to. Anyway, e-mail in profile so we can discuss more!
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I don't have plans for that weekend just yet, but I really hated last year's schedule of events and can't convince myself to drive 12 hours to put up with that again.
I'll buy you a beer before the drum circle :)
If you are in the South East and you run out of places to run, gimme a hollar and I'll add you to the SCARAB network and you'll be beating off conventions and retailers with a stick ;-)
As Joe mentioned, please feel free to post events under our Convention forum. You may be surprised how much PFS we can run at all of your cons. Besides, it would let me run Midnight Mauler for even more people so I can shut out Joe even more from obtaining his 5th star :) Once you get them posted, I'll make sure they get linked to the calendar.
If you have a PFS organizer for your cons, have them contact me if they need any support. If you don't have one, email me and let me know what you need and I can hopefully work out whatever you need.
***EDIT***DCII, I've added the Scarab convention to our website for January 13-16, 2012. Please email me at [email=mbrock@georgiapfs.org[/url] so I can start working with on a schedule and lining up DMs, as well as find out what registration system you are using (i.e. Warhorn) so I know how to touch base with any local GMs, that would be great.
Ideally, I would love to offer 10 tables of PFS each slot if your convention can support it. I would also like to offer up either Midnight Mauler or whatever the new exclusive will be, as well as the PFS Special: Blood Under Absalom.
Sorry to derail your thread Joe.
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Joe, perhaps you want to offer a better system for measuring if a GM is worthy of 5 stars? I assure you I'm not being sarcastic. Paizo would be more likely to address your concerns if you offered a better plan though. The trick is finding an objective way to measure the quality of a GM, as well as their dedication to the campaign.
I'm not Joe but I think I may have a reasonable idea.
Reasonable Idea: GMs are eligible to obtain a fifth star based on their ability to run Pathfinder Society Special or Pathfinder Society Exclusive scenarios. Upon earning his fourth star, a Game Master gains access to exclusive scenarios that can only be run by Paizo staff, Venture-Captains (see chapter 7), and four-star GMs for 1 full year before being made publicly available for all GMs to run. Four-star GMs who have run 25 special or exclusive scenarios over the course of a year are awarded a fifth star for their dedication to the campaign. Five-star GMs are the cream of the crop. Five-star GMs are expected to run 25 special or exclusive scenarios a year in order to maintain their five-star rating. There will be special five-star GM events and possibly even future five-star GM rewards (in addition to the existing four-star GM rewards)."
This change makes the five-star goal easier to obtain, but includes an objective measurement in order to retain the ranking.
-Swiftbrook
Just My Thoughts
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I would expect that, as more and more people get closer to qualify to be in the special club, the requirements to get into the special club will continue to get harder to meet. That's the only way the club remains special and exclusive. Once you have too many 5-star GMs, 5-star GMs aren't very special anymore.
-Skeld
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I would expect that, as more and more people get closer to qualify to be in the special club, the requirements to get into the special club will continue to get harder to meet. That's the only way the club remains special and exclusive. Once you have too many 5-star GMs, 5-star GMs aren't very special anymore.
-Skeld
Meh. They weren't very special to begin with. ;-)
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I don't have plans for that weekend just yet, but I really hated last year's schedule of events and can't convince myself to drive 12 hours to put up with that again.
Unacceptable. I expect to see you at Dragon*Con! And come a day early and I'll take you to Red Brick Brewing Co. so you can experience some of the fine craft brews Atlanta has to offer.
Besides, it would let me run Midnight Mauler for even more people so I can shut out Joe even more from obtaining his 5th star :)
I burst into RAGE!
Sorry to derail your thread Joe.
It's cool, I want more Cons in the Southeast to GM at. It just means I get to get up to 4 stars quicker (although I am shooting for the end of the year on that one anyway).
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Joe, perhaps you want to offer a better system for measuring if a GM is worthy of 5 stars? I assure you I'm not being sarcastic. Paizo would be more likely to address your concerns if you offered a better plan though. The trick is finding an objective way to measure the quality of a GM, as well as their dedication to the campaign.
That depends on the purpose of the 5th star.
The real question is, under what condition would you keep a GM at 4 stars, even when they've GMed 100+ scenarios?
Also, it's kind of silly that the old 5 stars don't have to qualify as well. 100 exclusives is a lot. Has DougDoug even done that?
Maybe the solution is to lower the number of exclusives needed and/or increase the total number of scenarios GMed to 300+ or something.
Having said that, it's still a grind. Quantity doesn't equal quality. I've seen lots of excellent GMs in the 1-2 star range.
So the answer depends on what Paizo wants the 5th star to mean. Quality (which is subjective... and how do you tell someone they're a bad GM... it's like firing someone, not something I'd want to do) or quantity (playing enough PF in enough locations)?
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As another one of those Atlanta GMs, I’ll agree that the requirements are quite tuff to get that fifth star. I fully expect there to be about half a dozen four star GMs in the Atlanta area about a year from now (much to Mike’s credit given there was no PFS presence in Atlanta a year ago). At the moment for me the only way to get that fifth star is to just go to a ton of conventions and run the yearly special, and hope that I can get in on tables where I can run the normal specials. I’m not saying it should not be difficult to obtain this coveted status, but right now it seems that becoming a fifth star GM went from vaguely impossible to extraordinarily difficult.
I think one of the issues is quality and quantity. What exactly makes for a five star GM? Is it running a ton of the specials? The willingness to run a lot of tables? Creating a great experience for players? Demonstrating that ability for a select group of people at the right place and time? It seems to me that we are having an issue with wanting to allow people to get into the door without letting too many in. We want five star GMs to be special and prestigious. Not just another notch you can get your belt just because you have run enough games. This is a tricky proposition that I do not have a very good answer for at this moment.
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Personally, it looks to me like it would be extremely difficult to meet the 5 star criteria outside of the US. It does seem to be all about conventions as the way to achieve it. There just isn't the convention culture or numbers here in the UK to do it and I believe that it would be the same for other European countries.
At my current pace I expect to get my 5th star by ...2024.
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Regional Venture-Coordinator, Mediterranean
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At my current pace I expect to get my 5th star by ...2024.Personally, it looks to me like it would be extremely difficult to meet the 5 star criteria outside of the US. It does seem to be all about conventions as the way to achieve it. There just isn't the convention culture or numbers here in the UK to do it and I believe that it would be the same for other European countries.
Yeah, I think it might be possible for me to get it by 2021. I'll get my 4th star in a month or two.
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As another one of the Atlanta GMs, I'll have to say I looked at the requirement and thought it was pretty steep. At the same time I remembered that 5-star GMs are supposed to be really the best of the best. What it comes down to is whether it's an objective or subjective measure to become a 5-star GM. While running a ton of PFS modules is a great accomplishment, possibly a simple "running X modules to get a five-star" isn't the best way to do it.
I'll actually echo Joe's concerns about running the exclusive event. We literally will have about three 4-star GMs in the next 2-3 months, and about 3 more in the next 6 months after that. All within 20 miles of each other.
I guess the question comes, why does running an exclusive event make you a better GM? Sure you get more experience and are bound to have run a ton of modules by that point, but quality =/= quantity. Perhaps a better measure would be a system of feedback for GMs, that could be done through this Paizo website. Perhaps players could have a link next to their online recording event that lets them add/edit feedback. Whether the GM has direct access to that could be up in the air, but it also would give a mechanism for large quantity GMs to get more out of the scenarios they are running.
I certainly know I have my good games and my bad games. Sometimes it's easy to tell why a game turned out so great, but sometimes it isn't so easy. I don't know how exactly that would correspond with a five-star GM, but I'm sure that there could be an easy quantifiable metric that is derived from the feedback; perhaps # of unique players that give the GM an overall 5-star rating, or # of games with high feedback. While there definitely is possibility of cheating/faking reviews... that's really not that different that creating fake PFS #s and "running" Midnight Mauler 50 times for fake people over a year.
Note: I don't think I got this through, but so long as there's a couple exclusive events I don't think it's a horrible requirement for running 50 exclusive events. I'm just putting some perspective that I do see some small issues with the new system and a possible solution.
Venture-Agent, Virginia—Hampton Roads
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As a lowly 3 Star GM (which I earned at GenCon) I don't mind the change. It has a defined minimum and has set the bar high for which a 5 Star should be. I will earn my 4th star before GenCon and will take me years to get my 5th star as I don't get to do very many CONs due to work and the shear volume of travel I do for work.
I am fine with that.
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I've had a target-rich environment up here in Michigan. I have run the Exclusive 21 times, but a lot of those tables have been in other states. I've done the Year of the Shadow Lodge 4 times. So by the new standards even I would not qualify for the 5th star. I think Kyle has run The Midnight Mauler only once in Michigan since he got access to it. I've been grabbing all the low-hanging fruit.
The reason that I am at 366 scenarios currently is because I started early in the campaign and I don't delegate very well. Without a vibrant GM pool locally, I have been engaged in 3 years of "Whack-a-Mole" with little relief initially. It has been getting a lot better. I am very grateful for dedicated GMs like Kyle Baird in my region. The situation in Atlanta is like a photo negative of Detroit. They have a VC who has done a phenomenal job of growing the GM pool and delegating responsibility. I certainly sympathize with the Atlanta GMs and I hope that some sort of revision is being considered. Unfortunately I don't have a better idea.
I guess the way to look at it is it's just a title and it doesn't define you. I've had lots of bad tables despite my experience. Having 5-stars next to your name won't guarantee everyone has a great time. Like Jason said, he's played under a lot of excellent GMs with 1 or 2 stars to their names. Obsessing over 5-stars, going broke or getting burned out--it's just not worth it. Don't lose sight of what you enjoy about this game.
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More or less.Simply put, the star system is a measure of dedication to the campaign.
For what it's worth, every suggestion so far in this thread has already been brought up and discussed. I'm not saying they aren't good suggestions (some are eerily close to what I was suggesting).
I did say it's "a" measure, I purposefully didn't write it's "the" measure of dedication. Perhaps I should have written that it's "one" measure of dedication. ;-)
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I did say it's "a" measure, I purposefully didn't write it's "the" measure of dedication. Perhaps I should have written that it's "one" measure of dedication. ;-)More or less.Simply put, the star system is a measure of dedication to the campaign.
For what it's worth, every suggestion so far in this thread has already been brought up and discussed. I'm not saying they aren't good suggestions (some are eerily close to what I was suggesting).
I have no doubt every GM in this thread is VERY dedicated to the game and the PFS.
Personally I would have liked it if the 5th star was given to four star GMs who have run EVERY published scenario for the last current 3 year period (today that would mean from 10 th august 2009 to 9th August 2011) or maybe the last 3 seasons (today season 1, 2 and 3).
That would ensure 5 star GMs run a lot of games, stay up to date are experienced with all levels of play and have comprehensive knowledge of the PFS and Golarion).
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Diego
I really like your idea but think there is one flaw:
You could possibly reach the 5th star without ever leaving your home group. Actually - if you have a dedicated group and are the sole GM in that group you will qualify without ever having left your home.
As I said - I like the idea and I'm contemplating how it could be combined with the current grind of 50 specials. Maybe something like
Either 50 specials or all scenarios of the last 3 (2?) seasons and 20 specials. This should cater to be up to date / know more or less all scenarios (while still having to do a decent amount of games outside a home group) or being a dedicated external GM.
What else? Any rule needs to be able to stand for several years without being changed. The worst would be a rule and someone works years towards it - and it get changed just when he is close. These scenarios contribute to the most emotional discussions I have seen on the boards.
Thod
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Mr. Miles said - "I guess the way to look at it is it's just a title and it doesn't define you. I've had lots of bad tables despite my experience. Having 5-stars next to your name won't guarantee everyone has a great time. Like Jason said, he's played under a lot of excellent GMs with 1 or 2 stars to their names. Obsessing over 5-stars, going broke or getting burned out--it's just not worth it. Don't lose sight of what you enjoy about this game."
That is golden advice Doug. I appreciate it.
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Diego
I really like your idea but think there is one flaw:
You could possibly reach the 5th star without ever leaving your home group. Actually - if you have a dedicated group and are the sole GM in that group you will qualify without ever having left your home....
That is mostly true. However, some specials will force you to go to a læger venue.
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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I'm not sure about how fair the 50 exclusives thing is, but I can say that the previous subjective method was a bust.
Kyle flew across the country to Paizocon, he ran a full schedule of games. He did a ton of extra prep for Midnight Mauler (it was pretty awesome actually) and even had his fifth star prepped and in his pocket. If Mark and/ or Hyrum had denied him that fifth star it would have ruined his whole weekend. Kyle would have cried* and gone home hating PFS forever. There is no way in hell Mark or Hyrum could have told Kyle his performance didn't cut it at that point in the program, it would have been liking kicking a puppy. A move like that almost guarantees alienating the most prolific GMs.
Under the old system the difference between four stars and five is the running a game in front of the campaign manager. That isn't representative of the dedication of the GM as much as it's a measure of how easy it is for them to get to Paizocon or Gencon. Not a good measure of the 'cream of the crop'.
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50 exclusives seems like a lot. Running 40 scenarios (exclusive or not) felt like a lot before and it still feels that way. I can't really imagine running 50 exclusives within a year without going to a lot of conventions and committing myself to only running exclusives. Of course, since I manage to get pretty close to four stars with getting two home games up 10 levels along with a few other random games (and no running at conventions), I'm fine that it is significantly hard for me to get to the next star.
Still, I think it works better than what there was prior.
50 exclusive scenarios is a lot.
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50 exclusives seems like a lot. Running 40 scenarios (exclusive or not) felt like a lot before and it still feels that way. I can't really imagine running 50 exclusives within a year without going to a lot of conventions and committing myself to only running exclusives. Of course, since I manage to get pretty close to four stars with getting two home games up 10 levels along with a few other random games (and no running at conventions), I'm fine that it is significantly hard for me to get to the next star.
Still, I think it works better than what there was prior.
50 exclusive scenarios is a lot.
While it is a lot, there is not a time limit.
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While it is a lot, there is not a time limit.That's true... however I think it's pretty telling that we don't even have one person that would currently qualify to be a five-star GM, even after 3 full years of PFS.
Keep in mind that the qualifying events didn't exist in their current form until last Gen Con, and even then it was a multitable special. Only since the release of MM in February could anyone really start down this path.
After February, even a 0-star judge can really start working toward their 5th star by running Midnight Mauler. While the current timing of these rules makes the 5th star a challenge (especially in a GM rich environment), it's only going to get easier and easier to accomplish.
Comparing it to the previous standard is like comparing Bugbears and Owlbears. They sound similar, but are totally different animals (or magical beasts...).
What you guys in Georgia need to do is realize that There Can Be Only One and have a battle-royale to the death. This will guarantee the winner a clear shot at their 5th star. My money is on Nani. :-)
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I fight dirty. And I have a cloak. Makes me like ninja.
I believe that there should be both a numerical and a subjective form of qualification. For example: once you have become a 4star GM and you have GMed an additional 50 scenarios (or 10 exclusives or whatever number of stuff), you may then submit an application to be a 5 star GM. Other qualifications may include:
Organize a 20 table PFS event
Sealed recommendations from other 4-star GMs or VCs
Recommendations from players (like Kyle's star feedback system)
The application would include a list of these qualifiers as well as a web or phone interview. Becoming a 5 star GM should involve more effort on the part of the person than simply waiting for it. The GM should have an active hand in his or her promotion.
Or deathmatch. Bring it!
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I fight dirty. And I have a cloak. Makes me like ninja.
I believe that there should be both a numerical and a subjective form of qualification. For example: once you have become a 4star GM and you have GMed an additional 50 scenarios (or 10 exclusives or whatever number of stuff), you may then submit an application to be a 5 star GM. Other qualifications may include:
Organize a 20 table PFS event
Sealed recommendations from other 4-star GMs or VCs
Recommendations from players (like Kyle's star feedback system)The application would include a list of these qualifiers as well as a web or phone interview. Becoming a 5 star GM should involve more effort on the part of the person than simply waiting for it. The GM should have an active hand in his or her promotion.
Or deathmatch. Bring it!
I like the recommendations idea and in fact this was already done (unbeknownst to Todd).
One of the arguements aganist a feedback system from players is the same issue with feedback on the scenarios. Feedback comes from the following places in order:
- Strong Negative Feedback
- Negative Feedback
- Strong Postive Feedback
- Postive Feedback
- Neutral Feedback
The real problem with a subjective feedback system is exactly what Ogre outlined above. If you have a GM who's run 100-200 events and you tell them they aren't worthy of a 5th star because of the quality of their GM'ing, you just lost a lot of money. Not only from that GM, but from the people who used to play at their table, the people that GM organized, people who read about it on the messageboards, etc.
Unless a GM is hideously horrible (see Doug Miles), there's no way to prevent a 5th star subjectively.
There ARE ways, however, to reward great GM's with more stars than they've earned, which is, IMNSHO great! Look at Eric Brittain! No really, look at him. Did you pass your fort save? Great. He judged at the Grand Melee during PaizoCon. The players had slips to fill out and rate their GM. The winning GM (Eric), got an extra star as his reward. This worked because it forced EVERY player to provide a rating, not just those who felt strongly one way or another.