Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
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I keep coming back to this thread, and shaking my head every time I read it.
The point was to make the Jabberwocky epic and memorable. If smite (be it from a paladin or from a spell that duplicates the paladin's ability or from any other "smite-like" ability) bypasses DR/vorpal, then the encounter won't be epic and memorable if the party has access to one of those abilities.
I'm not trying to say the rule about smite (et. al.) is wrong. I'm saying that, if you want to avoid what happened to the OP, make the interpretations that have been laid out by myself, and others, in this thread.
If, instead, you want to allow your players to steamroll the encounter and feel hyper-powerful, don't make those interpretations.
Obviously, if your party doesn't have access to those abilities, this is a moot point, and the encounter will likely be memorable.
However, for an example of what will happen should you take the "smite evil trumps all" approach, just read the Original Post. He was pretty disappointed, and they ended up quitting the game.
Do you really want that to happen to your group?
Another option for those GM's who want to require a vorpal weapon to slay the jabberwock (and I think that's a perfectly reasonable desire) would be to give the jabberwock Regeneration (vorpal) in place of its Fast Healing. Not quite the same thing as requiring a vorpal blade to penetrate its DR, but maybe it's a decent middle ground. Anyway, just a thought.
I like this idea for dramatic effect, but I would consider this a dicey move and warn any GM to be careful in advance before using it, making sure at least the PCs have a vorpal weapon available (I haven't looked up Briar so I don't know if it qualifies.) Even this lesser Jabberwock is a massively tough foe and being unable to kill it just because a vorpal weapon isn't available is a recipe for headaches at the table.
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Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
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Another option for those GM's who want to require a vorpal weapon to slay the jabberwock (and I think that's a perfectly reasonable desire) would be to give the jabberwock Regeneration (vorpal) in place of its Fast Healing. Not quite the same thing as requiring a vorpal blade to penetrate its DR, but maybe it's a decent middle ground. Anyway, just a thought.I like this idea for dramatic effect, but I would consider this a dicey move and warn any GM to be careful in advance before using it, making sure at least the PCs have a vorpal weapon available (I haven't looked up Briar so I don't know if it qualifies.) Even this lesser Jabberwock is a massively tough foe and being unable to kill it just because a vorpal weapon isn't available is a recipe for headaches at the table.
The ability to actually damage the Jabberwocky is well within the characters' hands. The issue is whether the right group simply annihilates it or whether they have a decent fight.
The ability to actually damage the Jabberwocky is well within the characters' hands. The issue is whether the right group simply annihilates it or whether they have a decent fight.
Well, there we go. That being the case, my only other concern--and it's far less, mind you--would be whether party members without a vorpal weapon would feel inconsequential during the encounter (in a "real" scenario they probably should, mind you.)
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Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
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That being the case, my only other concern--and it's far less, mind you--would be whether party members without a vorpal weapon would feel inconsequential during the encounter (in a "real" scenario they probably should, mind you.)
Yeah, that is definitely something to think about. I really believe the right group figures this out, though, and starts working together to bring the beast down. I know I've seen this happen repeatedly in my Rise of the Runelords games, and they always wind up high-fiving each other when they win.
That's the kind of encounter the Jabberwocky is supposed to be. If everyone gets to overcome it's DR due to a spell and is capable of pouring on 200+ points of damage per round, then it's really not. So, make the choice that works for your group.
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I agree with Bobson and Drogon.
One of the effects of the Vorpal DR, combined with the good saves and elemental resistances of the Jabberwock is that it require a melee combatant to "easily" kill him or luck with a spell.
Depending on my party composition when they reach this point of the adventure I will probably give it some level of SR (I am surprised he hasn't it) or some other capability to avoid a 1 spell 1 kill effect.
This should be one of those battle where the melee combatants should shine. Not a "clod of arrow, target dead" battle.
My changes are hypnotized with the consideration that almost certainly my group will be made of 6 players, so they will have a big action advantage on the Jabberwock.
At this level of power the adventure should be adapted to your player group.
I keep coming back to this thread, and shaking my head every time I read it.
The point was to make the Jabberwocky epic and memorable. If smite (be it from a paladin or from a spell that duplicates the paladin's ability or from any other "smite-like" ability) bypasses DR/vorpal, then the encounter won't be epic and memorable if the party has access to one of those abilities.
I'm not trying to say the rule about smite (et. al.) is wrong. I'm saying that, if you want to avoid what happened to the OP, make the interpretations that have been laid out by myself, and others, in this thread.
If, instead, you want to allow your players to steamroll the encounter and feel hyper-powerful, don't make those interpretations.
Obviously, if your party doesn't have access to those abilities, this is a moot point, and the encounter will likely be memorable.
However, for an example of what will happen should you take the "smite evil trumps all" approach, just read the Original Post. He was pretty disappointed, and they ended up quitting the game.
Do you really want that to happen to your group?
Although i would agree with anything to make an encounter more difficult i think that there is a better way to do it than using special rules for it, if that's the only thing the DM wants to do ok since the encounter becomes more memorable, but i believe that there are other ways to make it more difficult like adding more enemies to the encounter either at the same time or before fighting the jabberwock (like one poster here did).
Sound advice, leo, very sound. I suspect between the effective APL of my own group and clarification from this thread the Jabberwock will not disappoint in its task of curbstomping a few of them before it hears "snickersnack". And that is a Good Thing. ^_^
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Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
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Although i would agree with anything to make an encounter more difficult i think that there is a better way to do it than using special rules for it, if that's the only thing the DM wants to do ok since the encounter becomes more memorable, but i believe that there are other ways to make it more difficult like adding more enemies to the encounter either at the same time or before fighting the jabberwock (like one poster here did).
Fair point, Leo.
Be it through different rules interpretation or via customization of the encounter by adding new elements, I think we've answered the question "What happened with the Jabberwock?"
The GM who ran this encounter was unaware of what his group was capable of, and unaware of what that would mean to what is supposed to be a bit of (as Turin put it) curbstomping fun.
Know your group. Be aware of how to run the encounter. Make adjustments if necessary. Or, suffer the consequences.