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Help Daddy’s a vampire now! Undead and inheritance laws.
Through out most of Golaron, when the parents die, the children would inherit the Keep the Title, the Smithy, the Mill, the Family business etc.
What happens if Daddy is turned into a vampire or another kind of undead? Does he get to keep the erm Keep? Does it legally pass to his living children? Is this a source of employment for adventurers?
How is inheritance handled with the presence of Undead?
What would the legally minded priests of Abadar have to say?
What about the contractually minded clergy of Asmodeus in Cheliax?
How would this be handled in say Varisia? ( Magnimar, Korvosa, and Kaer Maga ?)
How would this be handled in the River Kingdoms, Ulfen Lands (the Linorm Kings), and Rahadoum?
How about Mendev and Last wall?
How about Geb and Nidal?
On a side note how would Raise dead, and Resurrection be handled with Inheritance Laws?
What do you all think?
I think if daddy is a vampire and he want's the keep he'll have it.
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I'd say that evil churches will grant the undead the legal status required to keep the previous properties (maybe with an hefty brib... ehrm, donation). Urgathoa first and foremost, but also Zon-Kuthon and Norgorber.
Strictly lawful religions such as the Asmodeus' one maybe would callously examine the inheritance paragraphs of the last will (if written) beforehand, looking for possible loopholes and whatnots that favor one of the parts involved - the one that's more convenient for the church, that is.
Pretty much everyone else would not consider an undead a creature that could ask for law protection in their area of influence, and the requests would be met by paladins, inquisitors, clerics and various champions of the faith bent on the final destruction of the abominations from beyond the grave.
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In most of Golarion State and Church are a separate entity with very different powers.
So the problem is not what the church will do but what the state laws say.
My position is that in most states an undead isn't a citizen so he can't own anything. Geb is a notable exception and maybe Osirion has some different rule.
Proving that a guy is a vampire or a lich and removing the property from his "dead hands" will be another can of worms.
Reincarnation can be another tricky thing.
Dwarf guy: "This elf chick say he is mi father and want his property! This is preposterous"
Technically the spell don't say anything about you keeping your original sex. For sure you change your aspect and age and there are good chances you change your race too. Relations with your old family will not be very easy after that.
It will very much depend on the laws of the kingdom. The question of "Can the undead own property?" is fundamentally no different than "Can women own property?" or "Can slaves own property?" and so forth.
Reincarnation becomes less of a sticky wicket since the advent of the witch's Forced Reincarnation. It becomes fundamentally no different from a transformation spell. If you don't lose your legal rights if you're transformed into a female elf or a talking monkey, then you shouldn't lose them if you've been transformed by Reincarnation unless you somehow lose them for having been dead.
In Geb, the undead have more rights than the living, though inheritance law would become tricky, especially with noble titles. The simplest solution is likely just have the senior person keep the title unless they abdicate it to an heir. It could also be that death would force immediate passing to an heir, but there might also reasonably be some grace period of resurrection and such, if just to avoid the trouble of people hushing up being resurrected because it would be a dirty secret that would disqualify you for holding a title.
Basically, the answer is "depends."
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Outside of Geb, I suspect it'd go something like this:
"Hey! Dad! Mr Hot-Shot Property Lawyer here says you're dead and can't own property anymore, so get your boots off the table and get the hell out of MY house!"
*yawn* "Gaze into my eyes, peon!"
"I'm...sorry...Mr...Dracul...there...has...obviously...been...some...mistak e. I...will...be...going...now."
*stretches, grins at son*
"...dammit, Dad."
Outside of Geb, I suspect it'd go something like this:
"Hey! Dad! Mr Hot-Shot Property Lawyer here says you're dead and can't own property anymore, so get your boots off the table and get the hell out of MY house!"
*yawn* "Gaze into my eyes, peon!"
"I'm...sorry...Mr...Dracul...there...has...obviously...been...some...mistak e. I...will...be...going...now."
*stretches, grins at son*
"...dammit, Dad."
ROTFL!!!!
Would Vamp-dad be able to cross the threshold of his home? Assuming he's got living relatives living there, he would have to bamboozle one to get the invite, right?
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Help Daddy’s a vampire now! Undead and inheritance laws.
Through out most of Golaron, when the parents die, the children would inherit the Keep the Title, the Smithy, the Mill, the Family business etc.
What happens if Daddy is turned into a vampire or another kind of undead? Does he get to keep the erm Keep? Does it legally pass to his living children? Is this a source of employment for adventurers?
I suppose first how well known and how can they prove he is a vampire? He can say he is still alive and local constable may not really say too much about it. Also he could easily pay off said people in power to ensure he continues to hold onto said lands.How is inheritance handled with the presence of Undead?
What would the legally minded priests of Abadar have to say?
I think proof of undead status may need to be proven but even in that case, we are talking about law so Abadar being lawful neutral I am not sure they would have laws in place against undead especially if they were not causing disorder if he being a nobleman I would think would still hold the rights to the property unless local laws otherwise stated something in regards to undeath ...which it may not. Depending on where they live.What about the contractually minded clergy of Asmodeus in Cheliax?
They would certianly uphold the letter of the law not caring if undead or not.How would this be handled in say Varisia? ( Magnimar, Korvosa, and Kaer Maga ?)Kaer Maga I don't see a problem, Magnimar the father may need a good lawyer and for it not to be known he was undead but I could see some laws against the undead there. Even Korvosa I could see vampires retaining property it being a decadent city and more gray.
How would this be handled in the River Kingdoms, Ulfen Lands (the Linorm Kings), and Rahadoum? River Kingdoms I think it would depend on the Kingdom, some would not care so much others may.
How about Mendev and Last wall? I don't see it being allowed would certianly think they would have laws against being undead.
How about Geb and Nidal?
Very much protected and the Undead having rights probably more than living humans.On a side note how would Raise dead, and Resurrection be handled with Inheritance Laws?
Raise dead I don't see as an issue, by the time raise dead happens it is doubtful that the local powers that be even knew the father was dead.I see an issue only coming up in the more powerful resurrections when alot of time has past. Think about how long beuacracies take now in the time of very quick transferral of information in this world I don't see information getting to places normally as quickly so unless the official documents state something I am not sure it would go back on the judgement especially if they have been signed and sealed and approved. But if the will states that in the case of a resurrection the estate may even stay in the hands of the child.
What do you all think?
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Thank you for your posts. They have been a good read so far.
With 5420 gp being the cost to raise someone from the dead, I will hazard a guess that probably the nobility, can pay for a raise dead, and rich merchant "barons" can also pay for a raise dead would also hazard a guess, the higher ups in a church may get raised as well (depending on the faith) As can successful adventuring parties.
I am guessing for the average schmo a raise dead is very much beyond reach. Also you don't find a 9th level cleric under every rock bush and tree an most clerics of that level would be in a large city...well you might occasionally find a hermit, or for that mater a wandering adventuring cleric, so finding someone who can cast a raise dead may be a challenge.
Wills might have specific instructions as to what sort of clerical healing the person wants.... does he want a neutralize poison, a remove disease, a restoration spell or a raise dead spell cast should misfortune fall upon one. Perhaps there might be a until dead of "old age" or finally dead caveat.
As for a vampire, I suppose as Kevin Andrew Murphey points out, it all depends on what the Undeads rights are under the law. In Geb, they are considered full citizens. In other places the undead are considered an abomination, and destroyed on sight (when possible)
But a vampire can probably take a place and hold it with force and intimidation.
I can see the vampire now “ welcome and come in you are adventurers yes? I see my latest wife, that shrew, and my eldest couldn’t wait to bury me in the ground after I was dead and take my gold, my title and my keep. Imagine their surprise after I clawed myself back out of my freshly dug grave three days later and entered my keep, dusting myself off with a "honey Im home". I reclaimed what is rightfully mine. I assume my son or wife hired you to evict me yes? Would you like to hear my side of the story? No? well I guess we shall be settling this property dispute the old fasion way, by force. Who knows I might even add you to my houshold guards as my vampire spawn”