I have a halfling cavalier with a riding dog mount in my campaign. I am wondering, are there some animal companion stats for riding dogs somewhere? Like 4th/7th level advancement bonuses? I can't find them.
It seems odd to me that I can find companion stats for something so unlikely as elasmosaurus, but not so bloody obvious as a riding dog.
They use the standard dog rules for having a dog mount.
They use the standard dog rules for having a dog mount.
Thanks for replying, but that doesn't really work. The dog is small, while the riding dog is medium. The advancement rules for small to medium are quite different than medium to large.
Dog 4th-Level Advancement: Size Medium; Attack bite (1d6); Ability Scores Str +4, Dex –2, Con +2.
The riding dog already is that size and has that attack.
After looking a bit more, I think I will just use the wolf companion 7th level advancement as is, as they are straightforward, and these two animals are somewhat alike:
Wolf 7th-Level Advancement: Size Large; AC +2 natural armor; Attack bite (1d8); Ability Scores Str +8, Dex –2, Con +4.
Have to be 4th to even take dog. before that its pony or wolf for small cavs.
Thanks again for replying.
Have to be 4th to even take dog. before that its pony or wolf for small cavs.
A Small cavalier can select a pony or wolf, but can also select a boar or a dog if he is at least 4th level
That is true, but this is only because of size. Until 4th level, a dog is small, so a small creature couldn't ride it.
But it doesn't really matter, because dog and riding dog aren't the same. Riding dog isn't covered in the rules.
A medium to large advancement at 7th level, like the wolf, which is exactly the medium to large monster advancement rule, is the way to go.
Cheers.
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Thanks again for replying.
Have to be 4th to even take dog. before that its pony or wolf for small cavs.A Small cavalier can select a pony or wolf, but can also select a boar or a dog if he is at least 4th level
That is true, but this is only because of size. Until 4th level, a dog is small, so a small creature couldn't ride it.
But it doesn't really matter, because dog and riding dog aren't the same. Riding dog isn't covered in the rules.
A medium to large advancement at 7th level, like the wolf, which is exactly the medium to large monster advancement rule, is the way to go.
Cheers.
The Small cavalier's 4th-level mount is equivalent to the Bestiary riding dog. Before 4th level, the riding dog is too young to ride, or the cavalier isn't experienced enough tc control a companion-quality riding dog, whichever you prefer.
Cavalier mounts and Bestiary creatures don't match exactly for horses, either.
Thanks for replying.
The Small cavalier's 4th-level mount is equivalent to the Bestiary riding dog.
Umm, no. Its not. Add the 4th level Dog advancement in the Druid animal companion rules to the starting Dog stats in the same section, and what you get is not equivalent to the Riding Dog. Furthermore, neither the Druid animal companion section, nor the Cavalier base class mention anything about Riding Dog.
Perhaps its worth pointing out again that Dog and Riding Dog are two different creatures.
Before 4th level, the riding dog is too young to ride, or the cavalier isn't experienced enough tc control a companion-quality riding dog, whichever you prefer.
Now you are just making stuff up. The reason a Cavalier can't choose a Dog (Dog, not Riding Dog) or Boar until 4th level is because they are size small until 4th level.
Anyway, the question is already answered: Use the Universal Monster Rules to advance the Riding Dog to size Large at 7th level.
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Thanks for replying.
The Small cavalier's 4th-level mount is equivalent to the Bestiary riding dog.Umm, no. Its not. Add the 4th level Dog advancement in the Druid animal companion rules to the starting Dog stats in the same section, and what you get is not equivalent to the Riding Dog. Furthermore, neither the Druid animal companion section, nor the Cavalier base class mention anything about Riding Dog.
Perhaps its worth pointing out again that Dog and Riding Dog are two different creatures.
Before 4th level, the riding dog is too young to ride, or the cavalier isn't experienced enough tc control a companion-quality riding dog, whichever you prefer.Now you are just making stuff up. The reason a Cavalier can't choose a Dog (Dog, not Riding Dog) or Boar until 4th level is because they are size small until 4th level.
Anyway, the question is already answered: Use the Universal Monster Rules to advance the Riding Dog to size Large at 7th level.
Actually no, the riding dog companion doesn't advance at 7th level.
There is no 7th level advancement listed for dog's under the Druid animal companion so there is no legal 7th level advancement.Now if you replace the riding dog with a Wolf companion there is a 7th level advancement but it will be a different mount and will need to be re-trained.
Actually no, the riding dog companion doesn't advance at 7th level. There is no 7th level advancement listed for dog's under the Druid animal companion so there is no legal 7th level advancement.
There is no "riding dog animal companion" ever mentioned in those rules. Apparently it is worth stating this a third time: Dog is not the same as Riding Dog. The Dog animal companion rules do not apply.
Here is what does apply: The Cavalier class says: "The GM might approve other animals as suitable mounts."
Riding dog seems a pretty suitable mount. So if a GM approves it, he has to come up with advancement rules for it. The Druid animal companion section says: "As you gain levels, your animal companion improves as well, usually at 4th or 7th level"
The medium to large transitions of the other mounts happen at 7th, so it makes sense to level the Riding Dog at 7th level.
Actually looking through the APG and the new information in the Ultimate combat it appears that small sized cavaliers cannot get large sized mounts no matter what they do. That appears to be an option limited to medium sized Cavaliers.
Thanks again for replying.
Does it say that specifically somewhere, or are you inferring it from the mounts that are listed?
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Actually looking through the APG and the new information in the Ultimate combat it appears that small sized cavaliers cannot get large sized mounts no matter what they do. That appears to be an option limited to medium sized Cavaliers.
Thanks again for replying.
Does it say that specifically somewhere, or are you inferring it from the mounts that are listed?
Well first Riding Dogs are listed as valid mounts for cavaliers (The beast rider archetype adds them as valid choices).
As for that ruling remember the list of allowable mounts is not a suggestion, they are an inclusive list and the only way to get another option is through a house ruling by your GM.
Now with that said if you look over the list of allowable mounts for small cavaliers NONE of them (including the new ones from Bestiary 2 and Ultimate Combat) are greater then size medium and those that have advancement statistics none will advance past medium.
Add to that the ruling under Beast Rider that specifically states only Medium sized Cavaliers can select a mount who's normal size is large or huge (but limited to medium by the animal companion rules {like the Bear}) can at 7th level increase them from medium to large.
They've been very careful to restrict the mount options for small cavaliers as tightly as possible and I can't see a RAW legal way for a small sized cavalier to choose a large sized mount.
Well first Riding Dogs are listed as valid mounts for cavaliers (The beast rider archetype adds them as valid choices).
As for that ruling remember the list of allowable mounts is not a suggestion, they are an inclusive list and the only way to get another option is through a house ruling by your GM.
Now with that said if you look over the list of allowable mounts for small cavaliers NONE of them (including the new ones from Bestiary 2 and Ultimate Combat) are greater then size medium and those that have advancement statistics none will advance past medium.
Add to that the ruling under Beast Rider that specifically states only Medium sized Cavaliers can select a mount who's normal size is large or huge (but limited to medium by the animal companion rules {like the Bear}) can at 7th level increase them from medium to large.They've been very careful to restrict the mount options for small cavaliers as tightly as possible and I can't see a RAW legal way for a small sized cavalier to choose a large sized mount.
Interesting. I will take a look at UC tonight. If that is the case, maybe it would be more appropriate to advance the Riding Dog at 4th level along the lines of the pony or camel, with no size increase, like:
4th-Level Advancement: Ability Scores Str +2, Con +2.
Thanks for your advice!
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Well first Riding Dogs are listed as valid mounts for cavaliers (The beast rider archetype adds them as valid choices).
As for that ruling remember the list of allowable mounts is not a suggestion, they are an inclusive list and the only way to get another option is through a house ruling by your GM.
Now with that said if you look over the list of allowable mounts for small cavaliers NONE of them (including the new ones from Bestiary 2 and Ultimate Combat) are greater then size medium and those that have advancement statistics none will advance past medium.
Add to that the ruling under Beast Rider that specifically states only Medium sized Cavaliers can select a mount who's normal size is large or huge (but limited to medium by the animal companion rules {like the Bear}) can at 7th level increase them from medium to large.They've been very careful to restrict the mount options for small cavaliers as tightly as possible and I can't see a RAW legal way for a small sized cavalier to choose a large sized mount.
Interesting. I will take a look at UC tonight. If that is the case, maybe it would be more appropriate to advance the Riding Dog at 4th level along the lines of the pony or camel, with no size increase, like:
4th-Level Advancement: Ability Scores Str +2, Con +2.
Thanks for your advice!
I do have to say I made a mistake. The Wolf mount is an option that does get to size large for small cavaliers (I remember reading somewhere that they had to take the other option but I can't find it and it may have been a drunken hallucination).
Other than that none of them get large.Shame really, I *LIKE* the cavalier class, it may not be the most optimiz-able class but the flavor really appeals to me.
I was extremely upset the Hound Master didn't make it into Ultimate combat (I feel a mount-less option would really make the class my go to choice).
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I have a halfling cavalier with a riding dog mount in my campaign. I am wondering, are there some animal companion stats for riding dogs somewhere? Like 4th/7th level advancement bonuses? I can't find them.
It seems odd to me that I can find companion stats for something so unlikely as elasmosaurus, but not so bloody obvious as a riding dog.
As a rules question, there are no official companions that give the exact same as riding dog. This would be something between you and the GM to make a houserule. I suggest you actually stat out the dog companion for higher levels and see how it looks. seeing as it changes to the size of a riding dog, its quite similar once it "grows up" and gets more powerful. This is similar to how they do not have separate small cats that would separate Jaguar and Cheetah or that bears do not have brown, black or polar separations. There is no room for every species of companion to stat up.
I do have to say I made a mistake. The Wolf mount is an option that does get to size large for small cavaliers (I remember reading somewhere that they had to take the other option but I can't find it and it may have been a drunken hallucination).
Other than that none of them get large.Shame really, I *LIKE* the cavalier class, it may not be the most optimiz-able class but the flavor really appeals to me.
I was extremely upset the Hound Master didn't make it into Ultimate combat (I feel a mount-less option would really make the class my go to choice).
So under Beast Rider it says: "The animal chosen as a mount must be large enough to carry the beast rider (medium or large for a small character; large or huge for a medium character)." And, like you said, it says a small cavalier can take a wolf, which is similar to a riding dog.
The beast rider does make a sacrifice, however, in that he is not proficient with heavy armor like the regular cavalier.
They other confusing thing is that they then go to great lengths to limit the medium cavalier's mount, even if it is a normally huge creature, to large size. I think this section all poorly written actually, since they just said huge is ok in the previous paragraph.
Anyway, at this point, I think the real question has become, is there a good gameplay reason not to advance the riding dog to large at 7th level?
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I do have to say I made a mistake. The Wolf mount is an option that does get to size large for small cavaliers (I remember reading somewhere that they had to take the other option but I can't find it and it may have been a drunken hallucination).
Other than that none of them get large.Shame really, I *LIKE* the cavalier class, it may not be the most optimiz-able class but the flavor really appeals to me.
I was extremely upset the Hound Master didn't make it into Ultimate combat (I feel a mount-less option would really make the class my go to choice).
So under Beast Rider it says: "The animal chosen as a mount must be large enough to carry the beast rider (medium or large for a small character; large or huge for a medium character)." And, like you said, it says a small cavalier can take a wolf, which is similar to a riding dog.
The beast rider does make a sacrifice, however, in that he is not proficient with heavy armor like the regular cavalier.
They other confusing thing is that they then go to great lengths to limit the medium cavalier's mount, even if it is a normally huge creature, to large size. I think this section all poorly written actually, since they just said huge is ok in the previous paragraph.
Anyway, at this point, I think the real question has become, is there a good gameplay reason not to advance the riding dog to large at 7th level?
All of the companion rules could use a good clarifying re-write but is unlikely to happen. As to your real question the only thing I can see is the animal companion rules are different from the regular animal rules and have been specifically written to limit their power. By default if the listings don't have an advancement listing for it then it doesn't advance by RAW.
Not a good answer but it's the only one supported by the rules I've found.