I know the lower armor does not count, but does it shutdown(including special abilities). You got a quote for that part? It might mean the mage armor no longer functions against incorporeal creature's touch attacks like it did in 3.5 when wearing armor.Remember the shirt has an effective AC of 0 so it really is no different than wearing armor in this case? It seems to be the question everyone is avoiding.Which brings me back in the picture! Thanks Wraith for that segue!
Can you wear two items with an armor bonus? Yes, you can wear bracers of armor and a suit of armor.
You can wear Bracers with a suit of armour just fine, however if one provides a higher armour bonus, the other shuts off entirely. (Including all non-AC enhancements)
The shutdown is specific to Bracers of Armour. It's in the item description. Mage armour won't shut down regular armour or vice versa.
Bracers might still help against incorporeal touch attacks, as in that case they would provide the higher bonus and the suit of armour would shut down.
In this case treantmonk is completely and utterly wrong..
The enhancement bonus on a single object does not stack, meaning you can cast magic vestment on a magical armor and only the highest enhancement bonus applies.
Mage armor gives a +4 armor bonus, a leather armor+4 gives a +6 armor bonus of which 4 is an enhancement bonus to the base armor bonus of 2, if you would be wearing both only the highest armor bonus would apply thus you would gain +6 armor, the mage armor is completely inconsequential unless you are being attacked by incorporeal creatures, in which case it provides a +4 armor bonus and the +6 from the leather armor is completely ignored.
you've got armor bonuses and enhancement bonuses to armor. Do they stack?
Are they different types of bonuses?
*looks at the words*
Well, one is an armor bonus.
One is an enhancement bonus.Different bonus types. No reason they wouldn't stack.
However by this logic enhancenment bonus from armor and shields don't stack as they are both enhancment.
Page 462 says under shields "Shield enhancement bonuses stack with armor enhancement bonuses.edited ** removed unnecessarily rude comment
Well i lose this round. And why be rude good sir for that i clear my nose in your general direction.
you've got armor bonuses and enhancement bonuses to armor. Do they stack?
Are they different types of bonuses?
*looks at the words*
Well, one is an armor bonus.
One is an enhancement bonus.Different bonus types. No reason they wouldn't stack.
Sure they stack, a +3 leather armor stacks enhancement bonus with the armor, it does not apply a +3 enhancement bonus and a +2 armor bonus, rather it gives you a +5 ARMOR bonus, wether +3 of that armor bonus comes from enhancing your leather armor with magic is irrelevant.
Likewise you do not get a +3 enhancement bonus form a +3 large shield, you just get a +5 shield bonus and thus stacks with your +3 armor just fine.
And for the same reasons does not stack with a mage armor or a shield spell.
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Page 462 says under shields "Shield enhancement bonuses stack with armor enhancement bonuses.edited ** removed unnecessarily rude comment
That is a very peculiar description, by reading that it would seem you are right by RAW, though I am fairly sure it has been ruled otherwise in the past. I am very curious what the game developers have to say about this, particulary this would boost the usefulness of the shield spell significantly, even for characters using a +5 large shield.
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Remember the shirt has an effective AC of 0 so it really is no different than wearing armor in this case? It seems to be the question everyone is avoiding.Which brings me back in the picture! Thanks Wraith for that segue!
Can you wear two items with an armor bonus? Yes, you can wear bracers of armor and a suit of armor.
But you will get the AC only from the strongest item.
Bracers of armor and ordinary armor do not stack. If a creature receives a larger armor bonus from another source, the bracers of armor cease functioning and do not grant their armor bonus or their armor special abilities. If the bracers of armor grant a larger armor bonus, the other source of armor ceases functioning.
To add some more quote to the discussion:
Enhancement Bonuses: Enhancement bonuses apply to your armor to increase the armor bonus it provides.
under Combat Statistics: Armor Class
Armor/Shield Bonus: Each type of armor grants an armor bonus to AC, while shields grant a shield bonus to AC. The armor bonus from a suit of armor doesn't stack with other effects or items that grant an armor bonus. Similarly, the shield bonus from a shield doesn't stack with other effects that grant a shield bonus.
under Equipment: Armor
Straightforward.
The entrenchment (and so increase the armor bonus that magical vestment provide) is added the armor bonus [/b]that the enhanced armor provide[/b].
If you wear multiple kinds of armor only the better armor give you AC.
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Wow, can't believe this has generated such a long thread.
An Enhancement Bonus is just that, an Enhancement. What does it enhance? It enhances an existing attribute or bonus. For example, an enhnacement bonus to STR boosts the underlying STR attribute.
For a shield, it enhances the Shield Bonus. For a suit of Armor, it enhances the Armor bonus of the suit it's on. For Natural Armor, it enhances the Natural Armor that is already there.
So... the question was, when Magic Vestment is cast on the clothes, what does it stack with? Other bonuses to the clothes that are not enhancemetn bonuses. So, if you got a Sacred bonus to AC of the clothes, ti would stack with that.
What it doesn't stack with is other enhancement bonuses on the clothes, nor with other armor bonuses from other sources. The spell only affects it's target. Any other interpretation would mean you could cast Bull Strength on the fighter, but have it affect his sword, since that's a different target. Blech.
Add up the Base Armor Bonus of the clothes, and the enhancement bonus of the spell on the clothes. Then add up the armro bonus on the mage armor spell. You get the higher total of the two. Enjoy.
In this case treantmonk is completely and utterly wrong..
I know. And it makes me sad.
This is a common pitfall. The enhancement bonus enhances the ARMOR (or shield as the case may be) bonus, but the enhancement is not directly added to your AC. So a magic vestment shirt could give you a +4 armor bonus, all from enhancement but still nonetheless an ARMOR bonus, that does NOT stack with mage armor or actual armor, etc.
Wow, can't believe this has generated such a long thread.
An Enhancement Bonus is just that, an Enhancement. What does it enhance? It enhances an existing attribute or bonus. For example, an enhnacement bonus to STR boosts the underlying STR attribute.
For a shield, it enhances the Shield Bonus. For a suit of Armor, it enhances the Armor bonus of the suit it's on. For Natural Armor, it enhances the Natural Armor that is already there.
So... the question was, when Magic Vestment is cast on the clothes, what does it stack with? Other bonuses to the clothes that are not enhancemetn bonuses. So, if you got a Sacred bonus to AC of the clothes, ti would stack with that.
What it doesn't stack with is other enhancement bonuses on the clothes, nor with other armor bonuses from other sources. The spell only affects it's target. Any other interpretation would mean you could cast Bull Strength on the fighter, but have it affect his sword, since that's a different target. Blech.
Add up the Base Armor Bonus of the clothes, and the enhancement bonus of the spell on the clothes. Then add up the armro bonus on the mage armor spell. You get the higher total of the two. Enjoy.
Precisely. A good point on enhancement to stats. Otherwise enhancements to strength would not stack with weapon enhancements to hit.
In this case treantmonk is completely and utterly wrong..I know. And it makes me sad.
This is a common pitfall. The enhancement bonus enhances the ARMOR (or shield as the case may be) bonus, but the enhancement is not directly added to your AC. So a magic vestment shirt could give you a +4 armor bonus, all from enhancement but still nonetheless an ARMOR bonus, that does NOT stack with mage armor or actual armor, etc.
I am still convinced this is the case, though I have to admit that page 462 under shields really doesn't help my case, it says enhancement bonus to shields stacks with enhancement bonus to armor, which calls them out specifically to stack, which should be a non-issue since they do not apply to the same items.
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I am still convinced this is the case, though I have to admit that page 462 under shields really doesn't help my case, it says enhancement bonus to shields stacks with enhancement bonus to armor, which calls them out specifically to stack, which should be a non-issue since they do not apply to the same items.
Something fighters should have nice things, so it was specifically spelled out to avoid any doubt on the stacking.
Something fighters should have nice things, so it was specifically spelled out to avoid any doubt on the stacking.
I am still convinced this is the case, though I have to admit that page 462 under shields really doesn't help my case, it says enhancement bonus to shields stacks with enhancement bonus to armor, which calls them out specifically to stack, which should be a non-issue since they do not apply to the same items.
I have to wonder how many pages we could cut from the book by removing redundant and confusing information...
I have to wonder how many pages we could cut from the book by removing redundant and confusing information...Something fighters should have nice things, so it was specifically spelled out to avoid any doubt on the stacking.
I am still convinced this is the case, though I have to admit that page 462 under shields really doesn't help my case, it says enhancement bonus to shields stacks with enhancement bonus to armor, which calls them out specifically to stack, which should be a non-issue since they do not apply to the same items.
Enough so the binding didn't fail on the first readthrough?
In this case treantmonk is completely and utterly wrong..I know. And it makes me sad.
me too
Rereading the rule I quoted, I think RS has evaluated it correctly.
I HATE being completely and utterly wrong!!!
*walks away in shame*
hmmm... I find the findings here to be enlightening with regards to the enhancement bonus and the aggregate totals of Armor and Shield bonuses.
I dunno if someone quoted this already but it appears to be pretty general. Enhancement bonuses stack with regular armor bonuses. Though I think this is likely a counter intuitive way to imagine magical armor enhancement working.
Yes, we got to that argument. They stack. But they are tied to the same source.
What about gauntlets of armor? for magi vestment, would gauntlets count as clothing?
No. Clothing is a specific body slot item.
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Nothing confusing about it. What you're getting most of the time are deliberate misreadings by people who want a given answer for the question they have in mind even if it's not the right one.In Diego's case he's forgetting that armor bonuses and shield bonuses are different types of bonus to AC, thus they stack. But multiples of either would not. Any body of rules text that goes beyond one paragraph is going to have "confusing information" to someone.
Interesting, where I am saying that it is not true?
In the my citations it is clearly spelled that armor and shield are different AC bonuses. I even bolded that.I was only pointing out that it was specifically stated and that it help shield and armor users.
Try to read the posts, not to invent things.