Do you think this sentiment has anything to do with the
book "The Stranger" by Albert Camus published in 1942?
I knew a guy in college who thought the theme of this
book was central to the movie "Jacob's Ladder (1990)".
Do you think this sentiment has anything to do with the
book "The Stranger" by Albert Camus published in 1942?I knew a guy in college who thought the theme of this
book was central to the movie "Jacob's Ladder (1990)".
Well, it's probably not a coincidence that in the film the character Jacob is reading that very book at the beginning of the story.
Uh... it always seems like they are pushing me back -- not pulling me along... ;D
Well, it's probably not a coincidence that in the film the character Jacob is reading that very book at the beginning of the story.Do you think this sentiment has anything to do with the
book "The Stranger" by Albert Camus published in 1942?I knew a guy in college who thought the theme of this
book was central to the movie "Jacob's Ladder (1990)".
Ok, so how does this work? If the main character
is reading a book, does that just automaticallymean the movie is about that book? For example,
what if he had been reading "The Hobbit"??
Uh... it always seems like they are pushing me back -- not pulling me along... ;D
Obviously, you life is more like a Kafka story then..
Uh... it always seems like they are pushing me back -- not pulling me along... ;DObviously, you life is more like a Kafka story then..
Applause! I've not had it put that way before... I'm honestly delighted and suddenly wondering if that's a good thing or not... ah well who cares right?
Well, it's probably not a coincidence that in the film the character Jacob is reading that very book at the beginning of the story.Do you think this sentiment has anything to do with the
book "The Stranger" by Albert Camus published in 1942?I knew a guy in college who thought the theme of this
book was central to the movie "Jacob's Ladder (1990)".Ok, so how does this work? If the main character
is reading a book, does that just automatically
mean the movie is about that book? For example,
what if he had been reading "The Hobbit"??
No, but it wasn't just that he was reading the book. He was reading the book, and your friend (and many other people) see Camus' ideas at work in the film. Hence the book ceases to be coincidence and becomes foreshadowing. See how that works now?
20/20 hindsight proves that the past was predicting the future with the foreshadowing you couldn't recognize before because you didn't have the information to see the foreshadowing.
Those who predict see the book and without the information are willing to guess that it might be involved -- it's part of how I walk by a show and tell you the outcome in under 5 minutes.
No, but it wasn't just that he was reading the book. He was reading the book, and your friend (and many other people) see Camus' ideas at work in the film. Hence the book ceases to be coincidence and becomes foreshadowing. See how that works now?Well, it's probably not a coincidence that in the film the character Jacob is reading that very book at the beginning of the story.Do you think this sentiment has anything to do with the
book "The Stranger" by Albert Camus published in 1942?I knew a guy in college who thought the theme of this
book was central to the movie "Jacob's Ladder (1990)".Ok, so how does this work? If the main character
is reading a book, does that just automatically
mean the movie is about that book? For example,
what if he had been reading "The Hobbit"??
Almost. But I think what I am missing is what
the theme of Camus' book is. I still don't getthat book. What was Camus' book "The Stranger"
about other than a dude who murdered somebody?
And the main character of "Jacob's Ladder" didn't
murder anybody, so I don't see the connection...
No, but it wasn't just that he was reading the book. He was reading the book, and your friend (and many other people) see Camus' ideas at work in the film. Hence the book ceases to be coincidence and becomes foreshadowing. See how that works now?Well, it's probably not a coincidence that in the film the character Jacob is reading that very book at the beginning of the story.Do you think this sentiment has anything to do with the
book "The Stranger" by Albert Camus published in 1942?I knew a guy in college who thought the theme of this
book was central to the movie "Jacob's Ladder (1990)".Ok, so how does this work? If the main character
is reading a book, does that just automatically
mean the movie is about that book? For example,
what if he had been reading "The Hobbit"??Almost. But I think what I am missing is what
the theme of Camus' book is. I still don't get
that book. What was Camus' book "The Stranger"
about other than a dude who murdered somebody?
And the main character of "Jacob's Ladder" didn't
murder anybody, so I don't see the connection...
That's where this bogs down into a big discussion of existentialism. Speaking from a peripheral understanding of the philosophy and Camus, and what I remember of the movie, it boils down to the idea that everything that happens in the novel is ultimately meaningless and irrelevant. So I suppose that in the movie, Jacob's actions are ultimately irrelevant because his fate is already fixed. He's going to die, and whether its the demons or angels that take him way matters only to him, because the end result is the same.
The quote comes from the 14th Century Christian mystic, Meister Eckhart.
The Chiropractor, played by Danny Aiello, in the film Jacob's Ladder, actually speaks that quote while giving Jacob an adjustment. It is very much the theme of that movie, that our perspective, based on our inability to let go of the trappings of this world, causes us to see a world populated with demons.
I don't agree that the quote is a main theme or the meaning behind The Stranger, nor did Jacob's Ladder draw any inspiration from The Stranger. They are about as far apart from each other as two works can get. The protagonist of The Stranger does learn to let go of his cares in this world. But the book overall is an examination of disconnectedness and dissociation with a hefty side helping of existentialism sort of thrown in as an afterthought. These states are not voluntary ones he must undertake in order to pass on peacefully, as is Jacob's case. They are states that come upon him unbidden. Camus seems to be warning us that sociopaths can be made through ennui, something I don't agree with, though I did find it a fascinating read, and quite provocative.
I suppose there is something they share in that a cynical person could interpret both to be saying that nothing in this world matters, but again, that is cynical. I don't think the central message of Jacob's Ladder was that this world is all illusion. I think its meaning had to do with knowing when it is time to let go. Camus was much more about the protagonist's conclusions about his situation somehow proving the inconsequentiality of his previous actions.
Okay, I think I know where this is coming from. Jacob is reading The Stranger in a scene where he is riding on the train.
Obviously, somebody in the crew or production team of the movie felt the two were thematically related.
I still think they are more dissimilar than similar. For instance, Jacob is a fairly religious person, who ends the film believing he is going to heaven. He is led away by his dead son. The Stranger's protagonist throws a priest out of his cell. Jacob is not a murderer seeking an excuse for his actions. Jacob is not a cynic or nihilist. The Stranger's protagonist is not an "unreliable narrator." Jacob is, and shares more similarities with the protagonist from An Occurrence at Owl Creek Bridge, by Ambrose Bierce.
The Stranger's protagonist is suffering from a severe emotional detachment, similar to a sociopath. Jacob is as far from this as it gets. Nobody in The Stranger is suffering from demonic visions, as far as I remember.
The similarities end at the existential door of letting go. Hardly worth comparison.
The quote comes from the 14th Century Christian mystic, Meister Eckhart.
The Chiropractor, played by Danny Aiello, in the film Jacob's Ladder, actually speaks that quote while giving Jacob an adjustment. It is very much the theme of that movie, that our perspective, based on our inability to let go of the trappings of this world, causes us to see a world populated with demons.
I don't agree that the quote is a main theme or the meaning behind The Stranger, nor did Jacob's Ladder draw any inspiration from The Stranger. They are about as far apart from each other as two works can get. The protagonist of The Stranger does learn to let go of his cares in this world. But the book overall is an examination of disconnectedness and dissociation with a hefty side helping of existentialism sort of thrown in as an afterthought. These states are not voluntary ones he must undertake in order to pass on peacefully, as is Jacob's case. They are states that come upon him unbidden. Camus seems to be warning us that sociopaths can be made through ennui, something I don't agree with, though I did find it a fascinating read, and quite provocative.
I suppose there is something they share in that a cynical person could interpret both to be saying that nothing in this world matters, but again, that is cynical. I don't think the central message of Jacob's Ladder was that this world is all illusion. I think its meaning had to do with knowing when it is time to let go. Camus was much more about the protagonist's conclusions about his situation somehow proving the inconsequentiality of his previous actions.
I wasn't trying to say that nothing matters. That's nihilism. What I mean is that in the greater scheme of things, our lives really don't have any meaning, except that which we invest in them.
While there certainly isn't a direct parallel between Camus' story and the film, I think it's safe to say that at least some connections could be made. Heck, I remember reading once where someone made connections between this movie and Ambrose Bierce's story "An Occurrence at Owl Creek Bridge." My response was similar to yours concerning The Stranger and this film. There are some techniques using dream states and time that are similar, but beyond that...nothing really.
Jacob is, and shares more similarities with the protagonist from An Occurrence at Owl Creek Bridge, by Ambrose Bierce.
Now I see it all clearly.
Devils are angels, read the the bible.
Devils are angels, read the the bible.Which passage in "the bible" explains that devils are angels? Just curious.
Gennsis. Devils are the fallen angels.
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Gennsis. Devils are the fallen angels.Devils are angels, read the the bible.Which passage in "the bible" explains that devils are angels? Just curious.
I suppose our friend means "read Paradise Lost".
For some reason, even committed Catholics seem to conflate Milton with the bible.
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Gennsis. Devils are the fallen angels.Devils are angels, read the the bible.Which passage in "the bible" explains that devils are angels? Just curious.I suppose our friend means "read Paradise Lost".
For some reason, even committed Catholics seem to conflate Milton with the bible.
Milton wrote the bible.
Milton wrote the bible.Gennsis. Devils are the fallen angels.Devils are angels, read the the bible.Which passage in "the bible" explains that devils are angels? Just curious.I suppose our friend means "read Paradise Lost".
For some reason, even committed Catholics seem to conflate Milton with the bible.
Milton Berle wrote the bible? I know his stand up was good but the bible is comic genius.
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The Bible is kind of low on my fiction list to read. Maybe one day I'll get to it.
It's tough to slog through, really. The characters are one dimensional, the protagonist is a preachy Mary Sue, and the ending seems to have been written just to ensure a film adaptation with a large CGI budget. =]
The Bible is kind of low on my fiction list to read. Maybe one day I'll get to it.It's tough to slog through, really. The characters are one dimensional, the protagonist is a preachy Mary Sue, and the ending seems to have been written just to ensure a film adaptation with a large CGI budget. =]
There's a lot of quality violence and kinky sex, though.
There's a lot of quality violence and kinky sex, though.
Lot in the cave with his daughters is HAWT!!!
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Gennsis. Devils are the fallen angels.Devils are angels, read the the bible.Which passage in "the bible" explains that devils are angels? Just curious.I suppose our friend means "read Paradise Lost".
For some reason, even committed Catholics seem to conflate Milton with the bible.
Only "cradle" Catholics. The ones who don't pay any attention and have no clue why they do things.
Angel by the way means messenger.
The pseudepigraphical book of Enoch describes 200 fallen "watchers" who left heaven to come and mate with humanity.
There are explicit statements about angels who fell in both the 2nd Second Epistle of Peter and the Epistle of Jude, as well as a mention of "the war in heaven" in Revelation 12.
Also Christ speaking in Mathew 25 of an everlasting fire meant for Satan and his angels.
and just as food for thought. The Bible contains many books it is in and of itself not a single volume. As such you will find many different styles of writing and while some may seem dry other books are not.
It is worth the reading if only for understanding of it's effect on modern history.
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Only "cradle" Catholics. The ones who don't pay any attention and have no clue why they do things.
Angel by the way means messenger.
The pseudepigraphical book of Enoch describes 200 fallen "watchers" who left heaven to come and mate with humanity.
There are explicit statements about angels who fell in both the 2nd Second Epistle of Peter and the Epistle of Jude, as well as a mention of "the war in heaven" in Revelation 12.
Also Christ speaking in Mathew 25 of an everlasting fire meant for Satan and his angels.
and just as food for thought. The Bible contains many books it is in and of itself not a single volume. As such you will find many different styles of writing and while some may seem dry other books are not.
It is worth the reading if only for understanding
I have fond memories of the In Nominee RPG, the Steve Jackson adaptation of the original French RPG. In that book one of the choirs refers to the Grigori or Watchers, a choir of Angels exiled from Heaven but not quite Fallen.
The history of the Bible is an interesting read, essentially what we know of as the Bible has it's genesis in the 3rd century Council of Nice where the first collation of writings was reviewed, and a selection was given the stamp of approval as the original Catholic Bible in Latin.
The rejected material is known as the Apocrypha. Whether this includes the work currently known as the Gospel of Judas is interesting debate.
The apocrypha does include the Gospel of Judas. In general it means the books of the Bible that the Protestant Christian Church considered useful but not divinely inspired.
It was also the Council of Trent 1545–63, that formalized the books. Yet they only formalized what had been in action since the Synod of Hippo in AD 393.