My players in an upcoming game are going to use the Control Water spell to overflow a stream that is running through the enemies camp to flood the area. The concept is not what I am struggling with it is simply how big the flood is and how Control Water mechanically works.
The plan is to raise the level of water in the stream which will then spill out into the camp in general. The stream is about 5 feet deep and 10ft wide, while the Control Water will affect a 110 ft area and be 22ft deep and last 110 minutes. It isn't so much this encounter that I am concerned about it is setting a president for the use of this spell in the future.
The lowering portion of the spell isn't a problem really, it is the raising of the water level that has me puzzled to it's mechanics and I wanted to get other GMs and players input on some questions that have come up.
Does the Control Water spell create additional water to provide the spells full effect? Is it using additional ground water or creating it? Or is it simply controlling whatever water is available?
When water is raised in a stream and the total volume of the stream is affected is the water being lifted up and leaving a vacuum behind or is new water brought in to fill the void? Where does this water come from?
What happens to all the water when the spell ends? Does it disappear or does it stay?
Will additional castings allow additional water to be controlled/created to flood more areas? Will additional castings stack allowing 5 castings to create 110ft deep water?
If Control Water creates additional water can a player use a flask of water to start the spell (there is no listed minimum)? Or is the spell only capable of manipulating the water that is there?
If the level of the water in a stream, river or lake is raised will it spill over the banks and move outside the radius of the spell or will it stop at the edge of the area?
Thanks for reading and any replies!
Before this thread goes off the rails with discussion of infinite cantrips, I am flagging the OP for a title change! Title should read "control water" not "create water".
Before this thread goes off the rails with discussion of infinite cantrips, I am flagging the OP for a title change! Title should read "control water" not "create water".
Fixed. Thanks for the catch Evil Lincoln!
Does the Control Water spell create additional water to provide the spells full effect? Is it using additional ground water or creating it? Or is it simply controlling whatever water is available?
When water is raised in a stream and the total volume of the stream is affected is the water being lifted up and leaving a vacuum behind or is new water brought in to fill the void? Where does this water come from?
I've always imagined this spell to basically raise (or lower) the local water table by the amount given. No water is created but unless you are in the driest desert there should be a significant amount of underground water. As the water level rises the outflow of the stream will cease or maybe even reverse course so you have more water flowing into the area.
What happens to all the water when the spell ends? Does it disappear or does it stay?
The stream returns to its normal course, the ground water soaks back in. This spell would raise up to 2 million gallons of water, or about six acre-feet. There would be some local flooding. [How much real-world physics do you want in your magic? Water raised from a volume which contains soil (i.e. ground water) would be only 20-50% water hence my wording of "up to".]
Will additional castings allow additional water to be controlled/created to flood more areas? Will additional castings stack allowing 5 castings to create 110ft deep water?
Normal stacking would apply. Additional castings could be cast on adjacent areas but not repeatably on the same water to raise it higher.
If Control Water creates additional water can a player use a flask of water to start the spell (there is no listed minimum)? Or is the spell only capable of manipulating the water that is there?
It's a transmutation spell not a conjuration spell it can only affect water that there already exists in the defined volume.
If the level of the water in a stream, river or lake is raised will it spill over the banks and move outside the radius of the spell or will it stop at the edge of the area?
It would overflow the banks within the area of the spell but would behave normally outside the area.
Control Water is a Transmutation spell, so it would not create *more* water than exists within the volume of the spell's effect.
When the spell ends, I think that the water remains in whatever configuration the spell ended with it in, and normal physical laws take over (so if used in the ocean, for example, to raise water, the raised water will simply splash back down. Lowered water will sublimate back if evaporated, or simply rise again. (I infer this from the fact that the spell has a duration.)
For the purposes of raising a stream, the spell effects a volume of water 110 ft long x 110 ft wide x 22 ft deep. Given that the stream is 5 ft deep and 10 ft wide, your players will probably want to exercise the final clause of the spell that allows them to halve one horizontal dimension and double the other, to allow the spell to gather the greatest volume of water. This would change the spell volume to 55'w x 220'l x 22'd, or given the constraints of the stream, they would get the volume of the stream along a 220' length, 5' x 10' x 220'.
The spell allows for water to be raised by as much as 2' per caster level. Presumably, this equates to 22' for your players. Since the spell is called Control Water, and not Raise/Lower Water, I would not insist that the entire length be raised equally, but instead would allow them to selectively raise a portion of the volume they control.
Since the spell says "If the area affected by the spell includes riverbanks, a beach, or other land nearby, the water can spill over onto dry land," obviously the water will overspill the banks. I would say that raised water flowing over land that reaches the edge of the spell's effect should not spill out of the volume of the spell effect while the spell lasts, but might do so after the spell ends depending on the exact nature of the volume and the surrounding environment.
Also, considering the nature of the spell, I believe that it allows the caster to control water that subsequently enters the volume of effect that is established when the spell is cast, such as might happen with a stream, river, or other flowing body of water, where additional water will continue to flow downstream and into the volume affected by the spell.
Edit: Ooooch, I never considered groundwater. ><
Would you happen to be playing Kingmaker by any chance?
Would you happen to be playing Kingmaker by any chance?
I am running a home brew Birthright campaign. I have read and run the first module of Kingmaker and could see this coming up in the higher level modules.
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Does the Control Water spell create additional water to provide the spells full effect? Is it using additional ground water or creating it? Or is it simply controlling whatever water is available?
When water is raised in a stream and the total volume of the stream is affected is the water being lifted up and leaving a vacuum behind or is new water brought in to fill the void? Where does this water come from?
What happens to all the water when the spell ends? Does it disappear or does it stay?
It seems simplest to say that the spell doesn't create or conjure additional water, but transmutes the water within its area of effect to take up additional volume, in much the same sense as enlarge person. When the water leaves the area of effect (as when water in a stream flows out of range, or the spell ends) it returns to its former volume.
Will additional castings allow additional water to be controlled/created to flood more areas?
Absolutely.
Will additional castings stack allowing 5 castings to create 110ft deep water?
No, once the water has been enlarged in volume, it can't be enlarged again.
If Control Water creates additional water can a player use a flask of water to start the spell (there is no listed minimum)? Or is the spell only capable of manipulating the water that is there?
Control water can only be cast on existing water, but the amount doesn't matter. A flask of water poured on the floor would indeed be a valid target.
If the level of the water in a stream, river or lake is raised will it spill over the banks and move outside the radius of the spell or will it stop at the edge of the area?
It will rise to the specified level within the area of effect, including spreading out over banks. edit: The spell description says that the water creates a hump, so it's unclear whether it flows outwards in all directions, but if it does, it returns to its normal volume when it leaves the area of effect and only forms a shallow puddle beyond.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
*casts raise dead*
It's a transmutation effect. It expands or reduces the amount of water in the same way that enlarge person expands a humanoid or shrink item reduces an object. In short, it effectively can produce more water within the area for a brief period of time.
i like to think that it magically gets water from the elemental plane of water, then puts it back when the duration is up. simpler than trying to apply physics to it or come up with realistic places for the water to come from.