Hello everyone,
we are nearing the end of Harrowstone. The party only has the Lopper and TSM left.
They also have some Haunt Siphons left, and I was wondering if those also work against those two enemies. They are not stated as Haunts but as wraths or ghosts.. therefore I was not sure.
Thanks
Markus
Not haunts. Doesn't work.
Ullapool is correct.
However, in my game, I'm letting Haunt Siphons work against any incorporeal undead. I mean, why not? I don't like the idea of there being a firm taxonomy of "this is a haunt vs this is an undead."
Creative Director
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Some are haunts because it's really hard to build incorporeal undead for low level adventures, even though that's precisely what we WANTED to do. By making some of the "bosses" haunts, we varied things up so it's not just the same old fight against a ghostly prisoner six times in a row.
As for haunt siphons... they inflict 3d6 points of positive energy damage. They ABSOLUTELY would work against any sort of undead. In fact, they're in there partially becasue the last few boss monsters are pretty tough, and having a touch attack that deals 3d6 damage even to incorporeal foes is a way to even the fight up a bit.
Re-reading the rules for the haunt siphon... yeah. We could have been clearer about the fact that the damage also works on normal undead. Essentially, a haunt siphon is like a bottled 5th level channel energy, but one that only works against a single haunt or undead foe.
As for haunt siphons... they inflict 3d6 points of positive energy damage. They ABSOLUTELY would work against any sort of undead. In fact, they're in there partially becasue the last few boss monsters are pretty tough, and having a touch attack that deals 3d6 damage even to incorporeal foes is a way to even the fight up a bit.
Re-reading the rules for the haunt siphon... yeah. We could have been clearer about the fact that the damage also works on normal undead. Essentially, a haunt siphon is like a bottled 5th level channel energy, but one that only works against a single haunt or undead foe.
Oh, that's good to know. I'm currently putting together a little 'briefing' of sorts on what my party's Pharasmin Cleric is likely to know about hauntings (as opposed to individual ghosts) and probably knows about haunt siphons. Thanks for chiming in on that.
OK, so this seems to contradict what Brandon told me in another thread. Let me re-ask my question here: does a haunt siphon work on the poultergeist?
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S_N:
James' ruling here is a bit contradictory with other threads and discussions on this topic, not to mention the language of the final item. Don't get me wrong -I've said the same thing he does here in other threads regarding haunts -ie: if you want the positive energy burst to harm all undead (especially incorporeal), then let it. It doesn't hurt, especially if your PCs need the help.
But that's unfortunately not how it's written. The language of haunt siphons as published is very specifically geared toward haunts and haunts only. In fact, the language of the turnover item specified "haunts only" rather than "to a single haunt." (Remember that I helped Mike design this item when we were putting haunts together for the adventure -not just talking out of my butt). We designed it this way to mitigate the cost of a sort of "undead grenade" that we felt was too cheap for what it did, and didn't want PCs cranking out cases of cheap 3d6 undead bombs. That's a lot of bang for 200gp.
There isn't a problem with the one-shot damage affecting any sort of undead, but if you want a strict ruling based on the language of the item as published, then, no -it specifically says "3d6 postive energy damage to a single haunt.", and that's backed with the item's original design language. But if James' ruling of developer intent trumps that for you, that's alright, too! Classic RAW versus RAI contradiction here (even if editor's intent contradicts the designers')! =-)
But that's just one aspect to consider. As for the rest of the item (the powers that use the item's damage as a trigger for its other abilities), then it absolutely does not work against a poltergeist, because poltergeists can't be neutralized or even receive a penalty to manifest, because that's strictly the mechanic language for a haunt.
In short: wanna let it damage them? Sure -go for it! (you have both James' and my blessing -hahaha.) Want to let all those other haunt-specific abilities work on undead creatures? That doesn't work, as it's not compatible mechanical design. =-)
And Robynenski? There's no way to recharge a haunt siphon. It's a one use item, though you CAN use it as a negative energy splash weapon grenade when done. Fun!
Hm. Ok, that does make sense.
For my PbP here, and possibly my RL, I'm going with saying they damage haunts as listed, damage incorporeal undead as listed but have no other effects, corporeal undead get a will save vs DC13 as if it was turn undead, no other effects.